Polyhedral Heresy

[James Maliszewski]

Some possibly not-idle thoughts:

What would the effect on pre-Supplement I OD&D be if you eliminated all dice types other than D6 and D20? As it is, there aren't that many instances where you need to use the other dice types.

Furthermore, assuming you went this route, what would be the effect if you strictly used the D20 only for "actions" and D6 only for "effects." So, attacks and saving throws would naturally use D20, but so too would searching for traps or checking for surprise, while damage of all types would use D6, as would other variable effects. Would this do unconscionable violence to OD&D?

[jrients]

Assuming you only use the d20 to generate numbers from 1 to 20, the encounter charts would need to be altered from the versions in Book 3. The treasure tables as well. Some monster appearance numbers would need to be tweaked. The number of foes affected by sleep would need to be adjusted.

Past minor issues like that, I see no real objection to your scheme. Personally, I like using the d6 more and the d20 less, so I would keep searching, listening, and opening doors on a d6 throw. EDIT to add: The more I think about, the more I like keeping d20s just for to-hits, saves, and the occasional ability check. But again, that's just my preference.

[foster1941]

If the d20 was able to double as d10 and d%, you could eliminate the d4, d8, and d12 from the game with fairly minimal impact -- number appearing, treasure amounts, wandering monsters, and a very small handful of other instances are the only places those dice are used anyway. I once made a list (and I'm pretty sure posted it at KnK, though a quick perusal there now didn't turn it up) of every single instance where a non-d6 die roll was called for in the original 3 volumes. There were fairly many percentile rolls, the 2 big d20 rolls (alternate combat, saving throws), and very little else.

[Zulgyan]

This topic has been discussed over and over and over. It seems we are all looking for the platonic ideal game that uses "normal people" dice.

Anyway, I think that this can be really achived on the side of the players. On the side of the DM it's too much work. Too many DM only tables work, and work well, with the d100. So I would not change that. Also, it's good to have all polyhral dices to roll for n* of creatures encountered, etc.

What you need to do on the side of the players, is just rework some spells. You can make sleep affect 2d6 total hit dice. You can make hold person affect 1d6 creatures (maybe ruling that 4 is max). Etc.

In case of players, if you want to make them play with just d20s and d6s, the area that needs most work, are spells.

I would keep the other types of dice behind the screen, because they are useful to the DM.

[James Maliszewski]

I should add BTW that I have an irrational aversion to percentile dice. For reasons I can't adequately explain that just don't feel right, whereas I have no objections to the other dice types.

[Zulgyan]

I would never use percentiles for checking if a player succeds at something. I generally use d6s for that, in different amounts.

But for random stuff tables, the d100 is perfect, because it lets you design the probabilities of each entry with much more ease than any curve approach.

[jrients]

Yeah, but you can do flat distribution with d6's too, if that's what you want.

11
12
13
14
15
16
21
22
23
24
25
26
31 etc.

The rpg Forward... to Adventure! was specifically made for audiences that don't have polyhedrals, so it makes use of these kind of charts. Traveller does it, too.

[Zulgyan]

Yeah, but if you make your own table, it's much more easier with the d100. Of course, this is totally a personal preference.

[jrients]

zulgyan said:

Yeah, but if you make your own table, it's much more easier with the d100.

Agreed. But if percentile killed your parents then it is a workable option.

[James Maliszewski]

jrients said:

But if percentile killed your parents then it is a workable option.

Well, neither of my parents was killed by percentiles but I think my mother hurt her foot pretty badly stepping on a D4 ...

[foster1941]

Most of the percentages in the 3 booklets can be converted painlessly to d20 rolls because they're almost all based on 5% intervals anyway (% in Lair, chance of going insane when Contacting a Higher Plane, chance of dropping something when surprised, chance of successfully Evading in the wilderness, etc.). The only real problem would be in the random magic item distribution tables, because those are tuned to the 1% level. If you don't use random distribution of magic items, or don't care if the tables include 5% (or 2.8%, if you're using a "d66" table) chances of finding a Ring of Multiple Wishes, Staff of Wizardry, Mirror of Life Trapping, etc. then even this isn't too big a problem...

[wulfgar]

[glow=red,2,300]Well, neither of my parents was killed by percentiles but I think my mother hurt her foot pretty badly stepping on a D4 ... [/glow]

Indeed. The D4 may be the least sided and most infrequently used (except for the misfit D12) of all the dice family, but it sure has one heck of a bite. I've felt it's sting more than once myself.

[Zulgyan]

I use d4 for the damage of some small animals. Or for stuff that should hurt, but little.

Daggers are still d6.

[coffee]

wulfgar said:

(except for the misfit D12)

Yeah, the d12 sure doesn't get much respect.

But whenever somebody is doing a parody of D&D, or of D&D players, they always mention the d12 as if it is THE important die.

It must be the funniest, or get the biggest laugh, although I don't know how they worked that out.

[thorswulf]

Something to remember: D20's back in the day were only 0-9 twice, not 1-20! Percentile dice were a novelty in 1974 to be sure! I think you could play D&D with just d20's and regular d6's, most of that other stuff can use bell curves and the like for 1-12 rolls.

[Wothbora]

zulgyan said:

But for random stuff tables, the d100 is perfect, because it lets you design the probabilities of each entry with much more ease than any curve approach.

I wholeheartedly agree... I guess this is the reason that RuneQuest and the Basic Roleplaying System never did much for me... It just seems too artificial using 2d10 for percentages (I know that d20 is calculated 100% by 5's, but it just seems entirely different when I roll a d20)...

As for Thief's and percentages I use a chart I found in an old Judges Guild supplement that uses 3d6 for determining percentages.

3d6 = %d 3 = 1% 4 = 2% 5 = 3-5% 6 = 6-10% 7 = 11-17% 8 = 18-27% 9 = 28-35% 10 = 39-50% 11 = 51-62% 12 = 63-73% 13 = 74-83% 14 = 84-90% 15 = 91-95% 16 = 96-98% 17 = 99% 18 = 100%

[WSmith]

But...but...but...what about The Armory's most awesome d30 with all the charts it uses?

[James Maliszewski]

wsmith said:

But...but...but...what about The Armory's most awesome d30 with all the charts it uses?

And let us not forget the Zocchihedron.

[badger2305]

jamesm said:

And let us not forget the Zocchihedron.

Ahhh, the "golfball"... ;D