Chainmail Hero and S-Hero into OD&D

[Zulgyan]

I was looking at my Chainmail 3rd edition pdf, and found that some abilities for the Hero and Superhero figures could be a cool addition for our beloved OD&D fighting-man...

For example, at 4th, fighting-men achieve Hero status, gaining the following abilities:

• They may attack 4 times against 1HD creatures.
  
• Allies fighting along his side gain +1 to attack rolls.
  
• They never check for morale (rule for NPCs only).
  

At level 8 fighting-men achieve Super-hero status, gaining the following abilities:

• They may attack 8 times against 1HD creatures.
  
• Allies fighting along his side gain +2 to attack rolls.
  
• They never check for morale (rule for NPCs only).
  
• 1 HD opponents at charge range must check for morale.
  
• Has the ability to detect hidden invisible foes.
  

[foster1941]

The +1 and +2 for allies fighting alongside the super/hero are to morale checks, not attack rolls. See footnote D on the Fantasy Reference Table: "The ability to raise morale of friendly troops."

[Zulgyan]

Yeah, I realized that, but wanted to change it to something that affects player allies, cause morale rules don't apply to PCs. Anyway, I'm still undecided.

[ffilz]

Don't fighting men already get to attack their level times against 1 HD or lower creatures or was that only formally added in AD&D? I seem to recall at least the article on combat in the Strategic Review gave that ability.

The +1 or +2 to morale would be helpful to PCs in the sense that it would apply to their henchmen and hirelings. Giving a +1 or +2 to attack might be nice, but if I went that route, I would of course not apply it to other Heroes or Super Heroes, and of course any given character could only get one bonus.

The never check for morale could be used for PCs for ad-hoc fear checks and the occaisional monster ability (though it's possible it should be converted to just a bonus to a save for at least some situations). Hmm, it could apply to dragon fear.

The ability to detect hidden and invisible foes is interesting (and interesting to realize that ability made it into a friend's home brew system, even though it was never formally a part of D&D or AD&D...).

Frank

[coffee]

Actually, there was some obscure little rule in AD&D that allowed high level characters (not sure if it was just fighters) to "notice" invisible opponents. This wasn't a full-on detect, but it gave a bonus to hit them. I'll have to dig out my DMG and look that one up...

[Finarvyn]

ffilz said:

Don't fighting men already get to attack their level times against 1 HD or lower creatures or was that only formally added in AD&D? I seem to recall at least the article on combat in the Strategic Review gave that ability.

This was certainly the case using Chainmail combat (and bigger critters got the special Supernatural chart), but I was always a bit uncertain if it was intended to continue into use of the Alternate combat system.

If such a rule does extend into advanced levels, does that really mean 20 attacks per round for a 20th level fighting man? This would seem to support the notion that OD&D is supposed to "top out" at a level somewhere slightly above 8th level.

[ffilz]

Ok, just found the following passage in Vol 1 #2 of the Strategic Review on p.3 (in the article: QUESTIONS MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED ABOUT DUNGEONS & DRAGONS RULES):

Assume the following dice score by the Hero. Note that he is allowed one attack for each of his combat levels as the ratio of one Orc vs. the Hero is 1:4, so this is treated as normal (non-fantastic) melee, as is any combat where the score of one side is a base 1 hit die
or less.

So if it isn't mentioned in the rules at all (though I thought there was some implication), it's clearly an expected part of the rules.

I don't know that there was an expectation of level top out, but certainly things evolved. This rule did however definitely make it into AD&D.

Frank

[dwayanu]

From Monsters & Treasure:

p. 5: "Attack/Defense capabilities versus normal men are simply a matter of allowing one roll as a man-type for every hit die."

I have usually ignored the next bit about adding a pip bonus (e.g., a Troll's +3) to one of the attacks, but it's interesting. Applied as well to attacks versus "supernormal" types such as PCs, it makes Trolls much stronger (and Goblins slightly weaker) than using HD alone on the combat table.

p. 16 (Pixies): While the sprites are invisible, "high-level fighters will be aware of their presence."

[Zulgyan]

admin said:

ffilz said:

Don't fighting men already get to attack their level times against 1 HD or lower creatures or was that only formally added in AD&D? I seem to recall at least the article on combat in the Strategic Review gave that ability.

This was certainly the case using Chainmail combat (and bigger critters got the special Supernatural chart), but I was always a bit uncertain if it was intended to continue into use of the Alternate combat system.

If such a rule does extend into advanced levels, does that really mean 20 attacks per round for a 20th level fighting man? This would seem to support the notion that OD&D is supposed to "top out" at a level somewhere slightly above 8th level.

That's why I like the idea of just 1 attack through levels 1-3, gain 4 at 4th level. Then, just 4 attacks from levels 4 to 7, reaching 8 attacks at level 8, and having the power cap there.

[jrients]

My current house rules also allow fighters of level 4+ to shoot down dragons, as per Chainmail. Instead of outright slaying the beast, the fighter rolls a number of damage dice equal to his level.