"Scope" of OD&D

[Finarvyn]

To steal a quote from the "Scope" section of Men & Magic:

With the various equippage listed in the following section Dungeons & Dragons will provide a basically complete, nearly endless campaign of all levels of fantastic-medieval wargame play. Actually, the scope need not be restricted to the medieval; it can stretch from the prehistoric to the imagined future, but such expansion is recommended only at such time as the possibilities in the medieval aspect have been thoroughly explored.

I think that one of the strengths of OD&D is the fact that the general rules system can be used for any setting. I’ve heard some players say that the “class” system won’t work for science fiction (for example) but as early as 1974 Gary was using something similar on Barsoom in the short-lived classic Warriors of Mars. Seems to me that the general system of level matched up against defense is a good one, no matter what era the campaign.

[Deleted]

I think that it's interesting that a universal game concept was envisioned back in the early 1970's. I guess I thought the idea started with GURPS or something, but clearly OD&D started it all.

The prehistoric aspect reminds me of Burroughs' The Lost World with rifles against dinosaurs....

[Finarvyn]

Don't forget the article Stermgeshutz and Sorcery from the Strategic Review, where they mixed WWII and fantasy. Also, Empire of the Petal Throne was a fantasy/tech blend and the rules of EPT were clearly based off of D&D. And Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign had a mix of tech with fantasy.

Mixing eras seems to have roots back to the very first gaming groups!

[serendipity]

Medieval times certainly make for a "romantic" war, with strategy instead of just pure firepower and a necessary emphasis on individual fighters and their abilities and styles of fighting. If you go much farther back, you don't have such distinct organization of troops and empires, but rather mere tribal skirmishes, so I can see why the medieval era would be a reasonable setting for role playing to begin with. But the make-it-up-as-you-need-to mentality of OD&D would tend to encourage players to think out of the box. It seems to me a natural progression would be to bring anachronisms in or to branch out into new eras.

[solomoriah]

keltset said:

The prehistoric aspect reminds me of Burroughs' The Lost World with rifles against dinosaurs....

but The Lost World was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Perhaps you are conflating that with Burrough's Pellucidar series...

[Finarvyn]

Or maybe The Land that Time Forgot. That had rifles and dinosaurs, I think, and I'm pretty sure that was a Burroughs book.

[Finarvyn]

serendipity said:

If you go much farther back, you don't have such distinct organization of troops and empires, but rather mere tribal skirmishes, so I can see why the medieval era would be a reasonable setting for role playing to begin with.

On the other hand, gaming in the world of the ancient Greeks or Egyptians could be a lot of fun, and those were clearly earlier in the historical timeline. I think about movies like Troy or 300 and see a lot of potential for a good game. Also, the more recent King Arthur movie was set in the year 400 or thereabouts and dealt with Romans and Vikiings. That could be fun as well.

serendipity said:

But the make-it-up-as-you-need-to mentality of OD&D would tend to encourage players to think out of the box. It seems to me a natural progression would be to bring anachronisms in or to branch out into new eras.

I think that the "think out of the box" comment is one of the most insightful I've seen, as well as a cute play on words. The white box edition of OD&D was clearly set up with a "here's a start, now you go out there and play something" mentality. Rather than waiting for a rule to be developed, DMs were encouraged to make it up as they went.

[jochen]

admin said:

Don't forget the article Stermgeshutz and Sorcery from the Strategic Review, where they mixed WWII and fantasy.

Yes, this indeed sounds interesting. Actually in the next days I'll add a new level to my dungeon... it will be a dungeon level where some members of the so called Ahnenerbe (Reichsfuehrer Heinrich Himmler's project concerned with the search for artifacts) managed to get teleported to in order to search for magic items.
These guys will be pretty confused because they didn't expect to really get teleported into a fantasy world but they are still dangerous since they are armed with MP40 and some rounds of bullets left. Maybe I'll add handgranades with a similar impact as the Magic-Users' spell "Fireball".

P.S. The word Stermgeshutz mentioned above is hillarious... did the editors of the article in the Strategic Review not have the time to look it up and learn that it should be STURMGESCHUETZ?

[Finarvyn]

jochen said:

P.S. The word Stermgeshutz mentioned above is hillarious... did the editors of the article in the Strategic Review not have the time to look it up and learn that it should be STURMGESCHUETZ?

I double-checked and I'm pretty sure I have typed the word as it appears in the article. Not being familiar with the German language, I never even realized that they got the word wrong.

[crimhthanthegreat]

I checked my copy and (both on the cover and on the inside) I believe they spelled it Sturmgeshutz the way I read it. Still wrong apparently though.

[crimhthanthegreat]

Speaking of the Scope of OD&D, this little blurb in the 1st issue of The Strategic Review would have been a lot of fun to know more about.

"POSTAL DUNGEONS & DRAGONS VARIANT, a game which combines D&D and MIDGARD will be handled through the magazine, FANTASIA.
To obtain full details, write: FANTASIA, Jim Lawson, 3508 Benton Dr., Calgary,Alberta,Canada T2L 1W8."

[tgamemaster1975]

I like bringing anachronisms into the game and the whole think outside the box, do whatever works for you aspect of the game. I am apt to throw in things from all throughout history and many different cultures and places.

[Rhuvein]

solomoriah said:

keltset said:

The prehistoric aspect reminds me of Burroughs' The Lost World with rifles against dinosaurs....

but The Lost World was written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Perhaps you are conflating that with Burrough's Pellucidar series...

He might be thinking of The Lost Continent by Burroughs, a somewhat rare book that was originally titled ~ Beyond Thirty, published in 1916.

I have it on my shelf, but haven't read it.

I also have The Lost World which was published in 1912.

[Deleted]

I like the simplicity of it (that also goes for Basic). Too many rules implemented just kind of wastes time, bogs the whole experience down, & generally retards the process. I've been involved in one too many game nights where our rules lawyer DM (& players) soaks up precious time leafing through a myriad of supplements looking for an obscure ruling. I put an end to putting up with that s**t a long time ago (I finally just stopped participating at all for a few years). Always R-O-L-E PLay, never R-O-L-L play.

[Finarvyn]

oltekos said:

I've been involved in one too many game nights where our rules lawyer DM (& players) soaks up precious time leafing through a myriad of supplements looking for an obscure ruling.

Yup. Lived through this as well. Lots of days watching sports on TV while one of our DMs looks up rules. I think his problem is that he really started out on AD&D and felt that everything should be done "by the book" so when he found himself in a situation he always needed to find the specific reference. Too bad we didn't have a searchable rulebook and a computer back then.

The OD&D mentality of improvise-and-roll-something has always been my favorite.

[howandwhy99]

I think the scope is limited by what PCs know about the world at the start of their character play. As a learning game it appears to me they can't really know things or learn vast amounts of information with ease like we can in this world and age.

[casey777]

One thing I like about OD&D over later versions is that it has a more "fluid" feel. Barsoom etc. is noted in the foreward and there are hints of robots, other planets, crashed ships which was in a lot of the source material D&D is derived from. Chainmail has early gunpowder weapons. And so forth.

Start with the familiar then go beyond. Very much the approach taken in many tales of Planetary Romance, Weird Fiction, and Mythology and a good grounding for OD&D, EPT on. One hex at a time.