Mike Carr has offered to answer our questions!

[geoffrey]

Good news! Mike Carr has agreed to answer questions regarding his work in the earlier days of D&D.

He said that his regularity in visiting a message board would be hit or miss. He suggested the following:

"If you want to call for questions from members of your group, compile them and send me a list, that might work because I could answer them at my convenience and select the ones that are most appropriate for a response."

He does remain open to other options, though.

What are everybody's thoughts?

(Note: This opening post has been completely redone in light of Mike Carr's kind offer.)

[foster1941]

From what I gather Mike Carr was part of the Twin Cities contingent and moved to LG to work for TSR around the time that they acquired rights to his game Fight in the Skies, which is by some accounts the first rpg (since each player had a specific pilot "character" who they retained from session to session and who gradually improved with experience, so long as they survived) and also, as of the mid-90s, bore the distinction of being the only game to have been on the event schedule at every single GenCon since the first in 1968 (I don't know if they've managed to keep that streak up in the years since, especially after the move to Indianapolis, but I hope they have).

[Stonegiant]

IIRC someone once said he was a CPA or a lawyer in or around Wisconsin. Grodog would probably be your best bet to know how to contact him.

[grodog]

Mike can be reached via the dawnpatrol.org site, which he owns and maintains: dawnpatrol.org/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3

If there is sufficient interest, I'd be happy to email him to invite him here to hold Q&A around B1, his duties as rules editor at TSR, etc.

[geoffrey]

May 29, 2008 16:43:25 GMT -6 grodog said:

If there is sufficient interest, I'd be happy to email him to invite him here to hold Q&A around B1, his duties as rules editor at TSR, etc.

I'd love to have Mike Carr here.

[darneson]

I think that Mike is a comodities futures guy.

Sadly that is all I know.

As far as I also know I am the world's only living Henriot (Belgians) ace. I also claim a kill where I made the enemy tear his wings off and crash. (He he). Like I said 'disputed'.


Dave Arneson

[geoffrey]

May 29, 2008 16:43:25 GMT -6 grodog said:

Mike can be reached via the dawnpatrol.org site, which he owns and maintains: dawnpatrol.org/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3

I just emailed Mike Carr.

[geoffrey]

Good news! Mike Carr has agreed to answer questions regarding his work in the earlier days of D&D. ;D

He said that his regularity in visiting a message board would be hit or miss. He suggested the following:

"If you want to call for questions from members of your group, compile them and send me a list, that might work because I could answer them at my convenience and select the ones that are most appropriate for a response."

He does remain open to other options, though.

What are everybody's thoughts?

[driver]

I can't think of any questions at the moment, but I do know B1 is one of my all-time favorites. It's got lots of the kind of detail I like, it's very easily customizable to any group and level, and it plays differently every time. I've also left out most of the monsters and used it with people who've never gamed before to get their feet wet. All the tricks are extremely weird and alien to someone who's never picked up an RPG ... the Magic Mouths always freak people out, not to mention the Fungus Garden, the Pools, and Cat in a Jar.

The last time I ran it, it was infested by Kobolds in jingly jester outfits, goblin witch-berserkers ("the Brides of Zelligar") with wavy swords, and a tirapheg (one of the more "lol wut" monsters from the Fiend Folio). Outside were a bunch of talking vulchlings who kept badgering the group for corpses, and who grew increasingly fatter and more demanding.

[geoffrey]

Here are three questions I would like to present to Mike Carr:

1. On page 6 of your D&D module, B1: In Search of the Unknown, is the following note: “In the mythical WORLD OF GREYHAWK (available from TSR) the stronghold can be considered within any one of the following lands—the Barony of Ratik, the Duchy of Tenh, or the Theocracy of the Pale.” In your mind’s eye, did you consider the dungeon in this module to be set within the World of Greyhawk, or is the above note marketing language? If you did set it within Greyhawk, which of the three above locations do you think is best for it? If you did not set it within Greyhawk, what fantasy world did you set it in?

2. Your D&D module, B1: In Search of the Unknown, does not have monsters and treasures placed within the dungeon. Instead, on pages 24-26 are two lists of monsters and treasures, from which the DM is to pick monsters and treasures and place them within the dungeon as he sees fit. Do you have a record of how you did it: Which monsters and which treasures did you place in which rooms?

3. Your D&D module, B1: In Search of the Unknown, is illustrated by David Sutherland, with Dave Trampier helping Sutherland with the illustration on the front cover ( www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/modscans/b1mono.html ). How well do you think the module’s art fits with your vision of the module’s dungeon?

[Meepo]

THIS. IS. AWESOME.

Quasqueton will always be one of, if not the greatest dungeons I've ever had the pleasure of running and playing in. Although I don't have any questions that haven't already been asked (geoffrey's #2 question in particular!), I greatly look forward to hearing his responses!

[grodog]

I'd love to hear Mike talk about the map design process for B1: why and how did he design the map the ways he did? Did any of the artists or other TSR folks have input into the map design, or was it all his own design?

[geoffrey]

Thanks for the question, grodog.

What I plan to do is email our questions to Mike Carr either A) on July 9th or B) when we have ten questions--whichever happens first.

When I receive Mike Carr's answers, I will copy-and-paste the email to these boards. I will NOT edit anything in any way. I'l start a whole new thread at that point called "Q&A with Mike Carr".

If anyone has a preferrable idea, or more questions, please post them here.

[coffee]

Go for it, Geoffrey; sounds good!

[grodog]

Also: what was Mike's role as "TSR Games & Rules Editor" like---what did that entail, in terms of his input on the AD&D rules (and other games?) as they came to be published in the forms we know and love? How much influence did he have, and what's a good example of a rule or three that were changed for the better via his input?

[geoffrey]

I just emailed Mike Carr all the above questions, plus this one:

How did you get started playing D&D? How did you meet Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson? How did you get started working for TSR?

As soon as Mike Carr emails me his answers, I'll post all the questions and answers in a brand new thread.

In the meantime, please feel free to post additional questions here for the next batch that I send to Mike Carr.

[crimhthanthegreat]

I think this is fantastic and I would love to hear (well read ) any stories he has of any games that he was in back in the day.

[grodog]

Any word back yet geoffrey?

[geoffrey]

Jul 27, 2008 14:09:49 GMT -6 grodog said:

Any word back yet geoffrey?

Alas, no. I'm eagerly awaiting his email.

[Deleted]

I am enthused that Mike Carr has said that he will answer questions on here from time to time. From the above it seems like it will be infrequent, but still to be appreciated.

[geoffrey]

It's been 30 days since I sent our questions to Mike Carr, and I haven't heard back from him. I'm thinking that perhaps he didn't receive my email.

I've therefore re-sent our questions both to the email address I sent them to before, as well as through the contact page on his Dawn Patrol website.

I'll keep everyone updated.

[geoffrey]

I just received an email from Mike saying that he's swamped right now, so it will be awhile until we get his answers.

[grodog]

Thanks for the update, geoffrey!

[grodog]

Le bump?

[geoffrey]

Still no word from Mike Carr. I hesitate to contact him since I don't want to be a bother, but it has been more than two months since he told me that it might be awhile before he answered the questions.

What to do?

[grodog]

Send a friendly email; can't hurt

[geoffrey]

Allan, you must be a little bit psychic. I hadn't even emailed Mike yet, and look at what was in my email this evening:


1. On page 6 of your D&D module, B1: In Search of the Unknown, is the following note: “In the mythical WORLD OF GREYHAWK (available from TSR) the stronghold can be considered within any one of the following lands—the Barony of Ratik, the Duchy of Tenh, or the Theocracy of the Pale.” In your mind’s eye, did you consider the dungeon in this module to be set within the World of Greyhawk, or is the above note marketing language? If you did set it within Greyhawk, which of the three above locations do you think is best for it? If you did not set it within Greyhawk, what fantasy world did you set it in?

Although the cited sentence is indeed marketing language and a natural tie-in to the Greyhawk product, it was also meant to answer the question, "Where might this place be?" The simple answer, of course, is that you can place it wherever you like as the Dungeon Master, giving the DM the greatest amount of flexibility. Keep in mind that this entire module was aimed at beginning players and beginning DMs, so the location of the place was of minimal importance to that group. More experienced DMs could put it wherever they wished within the Greyhawk world or their own milieu.


2. Your D&D module, B1: In Search of the Unknown, does not have monsters and treasures placed within the dungeon. Instead, on pages 24-26 are two lists of monsters and treasures, from which the DM is to pick monsters and treasures and place them within the dungeon as he sees fit. Do you have a record of how you did it: Which monsters and which treasures did you place in which rooms?

There was never any master list of assigned locations for monsters or treasures, nor did I have any particulars in mind. The purpose of the list was to show how a DM populates a dungeon setting with a variety of creatures and illustrate the flexibility in doing so, while at the same time providing a list of potential monsters to choose from. The placement of treasure, or the lack of treasure, in particular rooms or locations was also left to the DM as part of the same exercise. The goal was to show DMs how this is done and that there's great flexibility to the process, as well as to make the point that what might be inside a particular room should vary and not become predictable -- and that in some locations, there will be nothing, or what is there might be hidden from casual view or easy discovery.


3. Your D&D module, B1: In Search of the Unknown, is illustrated by David Sutherland, with Dave Trampier helping Sutherland with the illustration on the front cover ( www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/modscans/b1mono.html ). How well do you think the module’s art fits with your vision of the module’s dungeon?

I think that the art fairly well reflects the vision I had in mind and I was able to consult with Dave Sutherland on what he was depicting. Typically, after initial editing, I would lay out the text copy and see how it fit (in terms of overall length and on particular pages, avoiding the breakup of charts between pages, etc.). Because booklets are always printed in multiples of 4 pages, each module would be 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 or 32 pages in size. If the typeset text alone ran 23 pages in a two column format, then we'd make the finished module 28 pages and parcel out the 'extra' 5 pages into white space throughout the booklet for the artwork. Then, the filler art would be created depicting something described in the text on that page. Obviously, a couple of particular aspects were significant enough to be considered a 'must' for an illustration, such as the room of pools in the B1 module, a place that also lends itself to a more dynamic image.


4. I'd love to hear Mike talk about the map design process for B1: why and how did he design the map the ways he did? Did any of the artists or other TSR folks have input into the map design, or was it all his own design?

The map design process was a fun challenge, starting with how I envisioned this fictional place in my own mind. The setting is a somewhat deluxe living space hewn inside a rocky promontory, in essence a sort of underground castle. Like any decent abode, there had to be a main entrance and of course another exit as well. In addition, I had to give thought to practical matters such as where the cooking would be done (and the how the smoke would escape), how water and waste might flow out, where the staircase would be between the two levels and where everyone would be accommodated for eating and sleeping. The concept was to show the map on both full page flaps of the module's folder, so that defined the overall shape and from there it was an exercise in laying out a functional place that also had its own unique character. I think I succeeded well in that regard.

Years later, when I had the occasion of designing my own custom home, I approached the real-life challenge similarly. I had a very unique plot of land (an island roughly in the shape of a beaver tail) and had to design a fully functional home and garage within numerous constraints. The foremost consideration was the shape of the land and the necessary setback distances from the water, which defined the maximum footprint of the building. Then the task was to design in all the necessary and desired rooms and features. In both cases, I literally began with a pencil and a blank sheet of paper. I'm glad to report that the house came out extremely well and the finished version is almost exactly as I pictured it in my mind's eye (and I still live there today). Having done something like that previously was probably beneficial.


5. Also: what was Mike's role as "TSR Games & Rules Editor" like---what did that entail, in terms of his input on the AD&D rules (and other games?) as they came to be published in the forms we know and love? How much influence did he have, and what's a good example of a rule or three that were changed for the better via his input?

An editor's work is very important to the quality of the finished product, especially in terms of clarity and the reader's understanding. Although I was a bit player in the creation of Dungeons & Dragons and played it occasionally (and enjoyably) from time to time, I was never an avid, accomplished or experienced player. That may seem incongruous in light of the very important and pivotal role I played over a number of years as TSR Games & Rules Editor.

My greatest interest and love has always been history rather than fantasy or science fiction, which is why I never delved too deeply into D & D as a player. As an editor, however, this arms-length approach to the game was a great asset. Because I was not intimately involved with or familiar with every aspect, I was able to read rules, charts, descriptions, examples and explanations through the eyes of the players for whom it was all being written. The advantage of that cannot be overstated. If something didn't make sense to me or was poorly explained, I could get the answer from the author and fix it, making the end result better and more understandable. That sort of thing might range from obscure details to the larger question of how the material was organized and presented.

Fortunately, Gary Gygax was a skilled and articulate writer who produced very clear, concise and clean copy, so it was a pleasure to be his editor. Keep in mind that in those days we all worked at typewriters instead of word processors. Because of that, writing well the first time around was extremely important, because making changes or corrections wasn't as easy as it is today on the computer.

My input on game rules was minor and yet I fulfilled an important role in the process that I believe made the end result better. I can't recall any particular rules of D & D that I can claim credit for, but I know I helped clarify a fair number of them as part of the editing process. Another very important priority of any good editor is to minimize errors in the final version, whether they be typographical mistakes or other gremlins. Good editing and proofreading are imperative and I spent many hours doing that, but fortunately it was something I very much enjoyed. Early in my tenure at TSR I purchased a La-Z-Boy recliner with my own money and used that as my editing chair. Thirty years later, I still have it and use it in my office at home, although it's about time to have the upholstery recovered once again.

About a year ago, I did a preliminary edit of a new book and spent many hours in that chair, just like old times. It was a 440 page manuscript of THE STAND: THE FINAL FLIGHT OF LIEUTENANT FRANK LUKE, JR., an outstanding work by Stephen Skinner. I edited the hard copy, which was the way I preferred to do it, using a red pen for all the editing marks and comments -- just as I had done for manuscripts of similar length comprising the MONSTER MANUAL, PLAYERS HANDBOOK and DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE decades before. It was a long chore, but just as enjoyable (maybe more so, since I happen to love the subject of World War I aviation!).


6. How did you get started playing D&D? How did you meet Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson? How did you get started working for TSR?

I grew up in Saint Paul, Minnesota as did Dave Arneson, who is four years older than I am. We became acquainted through the gaming hobby and like a number of others, I was invited to participate in gaming sessions at Dave's home from time to time while I was in high school and college. Dave created and ran a massive Napoleonic campaign that featured diplomacy, the creation of armies and navies, strategic movements and tactical battles that were resolved using tabletop miniatures. It was a richly detailed game that kept 15 to 20 players busy and he did a superb job of running it over a period of several years.

I also recall that Dave ran a couple of daylong interactive role playing events of a similar nature, where each of us played a character in the same locale. One was BROWNSTEIN, a fictional capital city in the midst of a coup attempt, and the other was BROWNSTONE, an Old West town. In addition, he was experimenting with role playing in a medieval fantasy setting, which of course was the start of his legendary GREYHAWK campaign (I played a cleric, maybe the first-ever cleric in the D & D world).

I knew Gary Gygax through the International Federation of Wargaming (IFW), a national club that was active from 1966 to 1974. In those days, the Avalon Hill Game Company published one new title a year, so Gary proposed that the IFW sponsor a Wargame Inventors Guild (WGIG). He got the initiative going and encouraged me, a high school student, to self-publish the World War I aviation game I had designed. The result was FIGHT IN THE SKIES, which later became DAWN PATROL, a game that TSR first published in 1976.

When TSR was getting off the ground, Gary invited me to take a job with the fledgling company, which I joined in March of 1976 as its eighth employee. I was single at the time, working as an assistant manager for The Ground Round restaurant chain in Cedar Rapids, Iowa for the princely salary of $205 a week. I took a rather sizable pay cut and came to work for TSR in Lake Geneva for $110 a week. However, the offer included a small grant of stock in the company with the option to buy more. In the long run, that proved to be a beneficial bonus that more than compensated for the meager starting salary.

I worked in a variety of capacities at TSR until July of 1983, when business reverses forced the company to lay off about 200 of its 300 employees, including me. Despite that disappointment, I stayed on good terms with Gary over subsequent years, although our only contact was an occasional meeting at GEN CON. Incidentally, I am apparently the only person who has attended every GEN CON game convention since the first one in 1968 -- a rather obscure claim to fame, but one of which I am rather proud.

[blackbarn]

At last, the truth comes out about Greyhawk!

Thanks, Geoffrey and Mike.