Weapon Use Puzzles

[calithena]

What Men & Magic actually says about Clerics is this: "they have the use of magic armor and all non-edged magic weapons" (no arrows!)"

What Greyhawk says about Thieves is this: "Thieves can employ magic daggers and magic swords but none of the other magic weaponry."

Reading the rules-text in English, it seems to follow that in OD&D by the book any non-magical weapon is OK for any character.

Maybe it was just assumed that because they all did 1d6 it didn't matter? Of course that leads to the dagger/encumbrance issue, and if you use alternate weapon damage in Greyhawk it matters a lot.

Any thoughts?

[Finarvyn]

calithena said:

Reading the rules-text in English, it seems to follow that in OD&D by the book any non-magical weapon is OK for any character.

Well, I think that with the 3-class system of the boxed set they tried to put some boundaries on what could and could not be used by which classes. To say "any non-magical weapon is OK for any character" doesn't make sense because clearly you've cited a couple cases where limitations have been placed on classes.
* The Fighting Man can use all weapons.
* The Cleric can use non-edged weapons.
* The Magic User is limited to daggers only.
This is particularly important when rolling for magic items, becasue swords make up such a large part of the tables.

calithena said:

Maybe it was just assumed that because they all did 1d6 it didn't matter? Of course that leads to the dagger/encumbrance issue, and if you use alternate weapon damage in Greyhawk it matters a lot.

I think that the "all weapons are d6" philosophy set us a situation where many rules weren't needed. If a MU used a dagger instead of a sword, so what? Most weapons just became "window dressing" unless they were magcial.

[crimhthanthegreat]

admin said:

calithena said:

Reading the rules-text in English, it seems to follow that in OD&D by the book any non-magical weapon is OK for any character.

Well, I think that with the 3-class system of the boxed set they tried to put some boundaries on what could and could not be used by which classes. To say "any non-magical weapon is OK for any character" doesn't make sense because clearly you've cited a couple cases where limitations have been placed on classes.
* The Fighting Man can use all weapons.
* The Cleric can use non-edged weapons.
* The Magic User is limited to daggers only.
This is particularly important when rolling for magic items, because swords make up such a large part of the tables.

This is pretty much how I always applied it.

admin said:

calithena said:

Maybe it was just assumed that because they all did 1d6 it didn't matter? Of course that leads to the dagger/encumbrance issue, and if you use alternate weapon damage in Greyhawk it matters a lot.

I think that the "all weapons are d6" philosophy set us a situation where many rules weren't needed. If a MU used a dagger instead of a sword, so what? Most weapons just became "window dressing" unless they were magcial.

Weapons are an important window dressing, and even with Greyhawk the window dressing flavor that they give the game is just as important as the extra damage some weapons have.

[Stormcrow]

I mostly just wanted to lurk here — in fact, I created an account only so I could keep track of which messages I had already viewed. But I've just had a minor revelation about this that I thought would be relevant.

In the original rules, the player's choice of weapons for his character is largely window-dressing — all successful hits do one die of damage, and that's it. So yes, clerics are only supposed to use edged weapons, but this fact is never actually stated, because it's unimportant. There are no rules for weapon breakage or disarming. As far as the rules go, the only actual effect the choice of weapons has is on your purse.

However, there is one situation in which knowing whether or not you can use a weapon is important: found weapons. If a cleric finds a normal mace, who cares? He's already got one, and it's just as good. But if a cleric finds a magical weapon of some kind, that's significant: he may want to use it instead of his normal weapon. Suddenly, the question "Can I use it?" becomes relevant.

In other words, the question of what kind of weapon a cleric can use is almost always irrelevant except when magical weapons are found. Thus, the rules only state the cleric's restrictions regarding magical weapons.

The intention is obviously that clerics can only use non-edged weapons. But as far as the rules are concerned, that's only important when finding magical weapons.

Yes, there could be situations not specified in the rules in which knowing what sort of weapons the cleric may use could be important. (A magical trap disintegrates any weapon touching it, and the last room is full of defeated orcs who wielded swords.) The cleric's weapon restrictions should have been stated in general, not just regarding magical weapons. This was corrected in all later editions of the game.

All of the above also goes for magic-users.

Note that with the addition of the Greyhawk supplement, this rationale goes out the window. Suddenly the type of normal weapon you're using does matter.