[Box] The Spear

[crimhthanthegreat]

I have noticed over the years that very few players from outside our original group ever selected a spear when starting out. Now those of my original group when we started together, naturally gravitated towards swords when playing a fighting-man; however, when we rolled poorly and had very minimal gold to equip ourselves to start out a spear was only 1 GP and we added javelins to the list at the same price giving us some cheap distance weapons when we could not yet afford bows. It was not uncommon for a veteran fighting-man going out on his first few adventures to have a sword, several javelins and a spear. Facing just a charging wild boar, a spear was the weapon of choice.

[crimhthanthegreat]

Then Gary placed the following in The Strategic Review and we expanded our horizons just a bit more, at least in our understanding of the weapons if not in the actual use of the weapons, we still rarely ever used the lance or pike, although we did do some experimenting with mounted combat (and still do have mounted combat in the game) we find it to be considerably more complicated:


"The Spear in Man-To-Man Combat:
Several players have asked why the spear is so (seemingly) ineffective in the Chainnmail "Man-To-Man" combat system. There is no question that the Melee Table shows it as the least effective weapon statistically, although due to its length it usually allows figures armed with spears to deliver the first attack. However, before discussing its seeming ineffectiveness further, I believe a short discussion of the weapon itself is in order.

A spear is a sharp-pointed weapon with a shaft of considerable length which undoubtedly derrived from nothing more than a pointed stick. By Medieval times there were several types of weapons which were spear-like:
- The javelin of 4' or 5' length for hurling;
- The spear for thrusting or hurling, ranging from about 6' to 9' in length;
- The lance of 10' or 12' length for use by horsemen; and
- The pike of 15' to 20' in length.

The spear was a weapon primarily of barbaric peoples or poor ones. The Vikings of the early Medieval period used it extensively, but it was abandoned for more effective arms whenever possible in most cases. The Scots used it throughout the period, but the Scottish version of the spear was very long indeed, and was more nearly a pike. The various peasant levies used it little by the middle of the period, carrying instead combination-type pole arms, i.e. the halberd which combined axe and spear and similar weapons with which both the thrust and the chop were possible. Those weapons which did not combine those two types of attack were either pike-like or broadly hooked so as to otherwise catch opponents not penetrated by the thrust. AlI of the latter class had hafts longer than that of the typical spear.

With this in mind, it is easy to note that a spear-armed man is unlikely to be pitted against any armor class greater than chain-type, with or without shield. At first glance this still seems to put the spearman at a serious disadvantage. However, I suggest the following: As the spear was ineffective against better protected fighting men, the proper employment historically should be sought by those fielding such troops. When they are confronted by foot troops in superior armor the spears should be hurled and the figures then considered to have drawn secondary weapons. This is what spear-carrying Vikings did historically, for example. When confronting mounted troops the spearmen are then of utmost importance, for unless the horsemen are all lance-armed the spearmen will I have first attack, and the effectiveness of a spear against even a barded horse is indicated clearly on the Melee Table. As the spear is unlikely to turn up in games beyond the eleventh century or so, I am certain that a re-evaluation of the power of the spear will prove that it isn't so terribly ineffective as it appears at first."

EDIT: A little formatting by Fin

[murquhart72]

I try to make spears the most common weapon in my own settings. With swords coming in a close second, as a back up weapon.

[meepo]

That is what I do as well. Logically, it makes sense. A large stick with a point of some kind is a lot cheaper to make in mass quantities, so it seemed to me that many races would end up using 'em.

[crimhthanthegreat]

IMC orcs, and the goblinoids are often armed with spears and javelins.

[philotomy]

The spear's reach makes it pretty useful, IMO. In charge (or even most close-to-engage) situations, I let it strike first, and I'll also allow second-rank fighters to attack with their spears. My PCs like spears (in fact, the main fighter in my group actually has a 'spear-carrier' NPC).

[thorswulf]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, but here's my 2 coppers worth! In Regia Anglorum, a dark age re-enactment group in the UK, all fighters learn to use a spear and round shield first. Why? CONTROL OF THE WEAPON! If you can move a spear around with mastery and ease, any other weapon will be easier to master in the long run. Think about it. A long stick with a maybe balanced end cap and spearhead is not easy to manipulate one handed! It builds up strength, speed, and accuarcy. All of those will serve a warrior well! Secondly, consider Asian martial weapons. The masses of foot soldiers were traditionally armed with spears for the same reasons western troops were. But if you have been fortunate enough to see or spar with someone who knows how to move a spear, you come away with much more of an understanding of man's oldest and most familiar weapon. By the way If for some reason a spearhead comes loose while you are swinging it, those suckers can fly right through a fence! Don't ask... it involves a lot of booze, bad judgement, worse beer and a game called spear the beer....

Thorswulf

[Finarvyn]

Hi, Thorswulf, and welcome to the boards.

I've never taken part in historical reinactment, so it's nice to get some thoughts and perspective from someone familiar. I guess I always assumed that so many troops had spears was simply the low cost and ease of manufacture. I hadn't thought about the control issue!

[thorswulf]

I am no expert in Medieval combat! I tried the SCA, and realized several things. First I'm too d**n slow with sword and board. Second, I'm 6'6' and any shield I would use would weigh a ton! Third, and most importantly, the SCA uses some historical techniques, but due to safety reasons limits/restricts/omits others. I will say one thing though. If you get the chance to play with a medieval weapon, do it! It definately gives you a better understanding of how the things work! Try wearing armor too! I once wore a chainmail coif and furry Norse hat to work for Halloween, some of the guys loved it, others just shook their heads. The terms sweaty and filthy barely begin to describe how I felt by the end of the day! What these experiences do for a DM or player is to give them great creative ground for role playing. Now your fighter knows how he feels after a rough melee!

[coffee]

I've tried SCA combat. It's not the real thing, due to safety concerns (as thorswulf stated above). But it does give one an insight into how things work.

First of all, people who say that they can fire off arrows multiple times in a round but that someone with a sword can't land multiple blows doesn't know what the hell they're talking about (please pardon my french, but I can still sometimes feel the bruises...)

Second, if anyone in a D&D game of any stripe tries to tell me that leather armor is like a leather jacket, he'll be lucky if all I do is (verbally) beat him senseless. I've worn a leather jacket and I've worn a set of boiled leather armor, and the two are not alike at all.

Third of all, if someone insists that they're carrying their sword at the ready all the time, and doesn't have a CON of 16 or more (or should that be STR? Not sure), I'd be assessing fatigue penalties right and left -- those things are heavy! And the one I used was Rattan, not Steel!

And fourth, despite what 3rd Edition would have you believe, people in plate mail CAN actually move (sometimes a lot faster than you think they can!).

All this I know from personal experience, albeit with SCA combat. I'd really hate to have to do it for real! I think I'll stick to RPGs, which are much safer overall.

[Rhuvein]

Back in high school a friend got a Olympic sized javelin and discus for his birthday. I do recall how hard it was to throw the javelin accurately and for distance. It was a lot of fun, but immediately you see how practice/strength comes into play. ;D

[mahrundl]

Another SCA person here. Non-combatant, due to my knees hating armour (1 night of fighter practice = 3 weeks of limping!), but I'm familiar with a lot of the combat stuff. I agree with most of what Thorswulf and Coffee say above, although my understanding of rattan weapons is that they are actually fairly close in weight to a comparable metal weapon.

If you want to talk to a keen re-enactor, PapersAndPaychecks (one of the OSRIC creators) at Dragonsfoot and the Knights'n'Knaves Alehouse is a good choice.

[thorswulf]

I suppost a rattan sword is similar in weight, sometimes in balance too. I inherited a Phillipino bolo knife from my grandfather. This isn't the heavy hooked end bolo like others. This thing is like an oversized knife. It is exceptionally well balanced and rolls quite naturally in one's hand. Most people who handle weaponry have one of two reactions to it. The first is "That thing is scary! It is designed to do one thing only: cut you to pieces!" The second response begins with that strange glimmer in the holder's eye, a dryness of the mouth, then a sudden salivation, and slow and pleasured grin. This is usually followed by, "Oh, yeah... hell, yeah, this thing is wicked-nastybad...." Or something similar. My buddy Don, the martial artist grew up in the Phillipines with his missionary parents wants it to play with all the time. We're both convinced that the thing has probably killed more than a few people, quite possibly even taken a head. Like I said, you loathe it, or love it.

This is just a well made knife/machete. But it has plenty of character! Kind of like a +1 sword or something! Well perhaps not, but it does reflect the value of a good basic weapon like the spear. Good ones were prized for generations of warriors. I think it is very fitting that in most burial mounds/chambers/excavations that the spear heads survive long after the shaft of the weapon has been destroyed, and that these are among the most obvious of remains. Long live the spear! The common man's friend, the tyrant's foe! Huzzah!