Morale, once again

[snorri]

I'm still seraching a way to use Chainmail morale effectively in Od&D, so I was seraching references on morale in the lbbs. And noticed a funny thing:

Nothing, by the books, says PC's ignores morale rules. Instead some points suggest it could apply.

Bless spell description:
A blessing raises morale by +1 and also adds +1 to attack dice.
Sure, it could apply to henchmen, but why won't it apply to PC's as well?

Potion of Heroism: A dual action potion which makes a normal man act like a hero in all respects, including morale and combat.
... including morale, probably refers t Chainmail "Heroes
(and Anti-heroes) need never check morale, and they add 1 to the die or dice of their unit (or whatever unit they are with)".

Drums of Panic: The beating of these kettle drums will cause men and fantastic creatures who fail to make their morale throw to flee in rout (for morale throw use saving throw vs. magic).
A curious note. Would saves apply to all morale throws, or only this one because of magic item? Could it be related to the later Homes quote "Hobgoblins are big, powerful goblinoids, and their morale (such as a saving throw against fear) is always a + 1"

Just a weird thought, as usual...

[EdOWar]

Interesting catch. I looked through my pdf copies of the LBBs and found very little reference to morale at all (unless I missed it, which is possible given how unorganized those books are).

What I could find was under the section titled "Non-player Characters." Specifically, under Capture of Non-player Monsters and Loyalty of Non-player Characters on page 13. This could be interpreted that morale only applies to NPCs, but those rules do not specifically state that this is the case.

It would be an interesting way to play if morale rolls applied to PCs to well, but might be overkill considering how lethal OD&D combat is. Imagine a tough fight where the fighter gets a bad roll on his morale check and bugs out, leaving the rest of the party to be slaughtered.

[tavis]

I would think that morale for PCs would apply to the side, not the individual character - so it'd be the whole party that bugs out, not just the fighter. (Unless Snorri and other sages of his level would point out that the PCs are each a hero-type figure and thus do not rout as a single combined unit?)

I find it frustrating sometimes when I think the obvious choice of action is to run away but can't get anyone to agree, so it might be actually more fun to have this decision taken out of one's hands (although you could always do a strategic withdrawal without losing morale). Part of why players don't like to run is our pride, which might be soothed by saying "I'm no coward, I was just unlucky."

[EdOWar]

You're right, it would make more sense to roll PC morale for the side instead of individuals. In which case it could be interesting to give it a try.

[snorri]

Dec 6, 2009 20:48:57 GMT -6 EdOWar said:

Imagine a tough fight where the fighter gets a bad roll on his morale check and bugs out, leaving the rest of the party to be slaughtered.

That's one of the intersting points: the chainmail morale system (eeh, one of the two morale systems, as usual) makes a failure can translate to prudent withdrawal or to total disband, according to the failure. It makes a lot of interesting variants. I'm tinkering a way to deal with it simply, will post that in a few days.

[snorri]

A first version. I read once again the morale rule sof Chainmail, and think they're a bit difficult to use during a game session - though I may use them in a pbp. So I went to a simplier one, which reproduces the most important features. Please have a look on balance:

*Each time a side suffer loss, morale is checked immediately during the round (after range attacks, after spells and after melee).

*Compare the sum of levels / hit dices [characters levels - monsters hit dices] , and add 2d6 and see the result on the table.

7 and less combat continues
8-12 retreat in order, or negociate if there’s no possible escape
13 and more rout in disorder, or surrender if there’s no possible escape

- Some characters automatically makes their opponents check their morale before the fight (fighting men at level 8, clerics at level 9, magic-users at level 10).
- Some classes and creatures have a bonus to the roll: clerics (+1), hobgoblins (+1), gnolls (+2)
- Some creature snever check for morale, as stated in their description.

Example: a group of 4 characters, with a sum of 8 levels, fight with a band of 6 gnolls. When the first Gnoll is killed by a hurled axe, the gnolls check for morale. The referee rolls a 4, plus 8 for levels and less 10 for gnolls (5 remaining gnolls with 2HD) hit dices, for a total of 0. The combat continues. At the end of first round, one first level character and a second Gnoll have been killed. The referee rolls with the new total, gets a 10, plus 7, less 8 (4 remaining gnolls), for a total of 9. The gnolls begin to think it’s time to withdraw toward a place more easy to defend.

[howandwhy99]

We use morale, loyalty, and obedience rules for NPCs only. Certainly not for PCs. Guessing when to run away is an essential part of the game IMO.

[aldarron]

Dec 6, 2009 13:51:58 GMT -6 snorri said:

Potion of Heroism: A dual action potion which makes a normal man act like a hero in all respects, including morale and combat.
... including morale, probably refers t Chainmail "Heroes
(and Anti-heroes) need never check morale, and they add 1 to the die or dice of their unit (or whatever unit they are with)".

There's an old thread on Dragonsfoot that deals a bit with OD&D morale here www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12130&view=previous , but Men and Magic has basically the same rule as the one in Chainmail above.
On page 13 "Non-player characters and men-at-arms will have to make morale checks (using the above reaction table or "Chainmail") whenever a highly dangerous or un-nerving situation arises."

So "men at arms" a.k.a. normal men a.k.a. flunkies, or levels 1-3, are expected to check morale, along with all monsters and non player characters of any level, but level 4 PC Hero's and above do not have to check morale. At least that's the rule, but it only is required in "highly dangerous or un-nerving" situations.

EDIT: At least that's how I would interpret it, but it could also just apply to men at arms hirelings.

[apeloverage]

You could have morale checks for PCs, but failed checks mean minuses to hit rather than forced retreat.

EDIT: Perhaps different characters have better morale against particular foes: MUs against magical creatures, human fighters against normal men, dwarves against 'humanoids', halflings against normal animals and so on.