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Post by geoffrey on Oct 8, 2009 6:52:11 GMT -6
As far as I'm aware, Dave Sutherland's art first appeared in the 1975 Empire of the Petal Throne rulebook. At the time EPT was released, only the D&D boxed set and GREYHAWK had been published, and neither include art by Sutherland. The first EPT article appears in The Strategic Review #4, and Sutherland has no art in the first four issues of The Strategic Review.
So I'm thinking that Sutherland made his debut as a published artist with EPT in the summer of 1975. Is anyone aware of any of his art that was published earlier?
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Post by James Maliszewski on Oct 8, 2009 7:53:07 GMT -6
Dave Sutherland is credited in my edition of the LBBs. Granted, I have an OCE printing, so it's possible Dave's name is a later addition to the credits. Interestingly, I can't find a single illustration in my LBBs that looks obviously like Sutherland's, but his name is listed nonetheless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 9:15:58 GMT -6
You are correct as far as I can tell James. My 4th printing books do not have Sutherland mentioned in the illustration credits whereas the OCE books do have him included.
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Post by geoffrey on Oct 8, 2009 9:26:22 GMT -6
Can you imagine Sutherland's first day on the job?
Gary: "Here, you. We need you to draw an Ahoggya."
Sutherland: "A...what?"
Gary: "An Ahoggya." (Then Gary gives him a physical description.)
Sutherland (thinking to himself): "What have I gotten myself into?"
LOL!
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yesmar
Level 4 Theurgist
Fool, my spell book is written in Erlang!
Posts: 197
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Post by yesmar on Oct 9, 2009 2:19:44 GMT -6
Didn't DCS play in M.A.R. Barker's campaign? If so, I expect he knew what an Ahoggya was.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2009 6:46:52 GMT -6
It is still funny to imagine such a reaction though.  |
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Post by James Maliszewski on Oct 9, 2009 7:45:06 GMT -6
Didn't DCS play in M.A.R. Barker's campaign? If so, I expect he knew what an Ahoggya was. Yes, he did. He was a Minnesota native and attended the University of Minnesota, where he met Phil Barker through the wargames club in the early 70s. |
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Post by grodog on Oct 12, 2009 0:14:49 GMT -6
IIRC, it was Sutherland who initially hooked up Gary and Phil, too.
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Post by geoffrey on Oct 12, 2009 12:06:29 GMT -6
IIRC, it was Sutherland who initially hooked up Gary and Phil, too. So it would have been something more like this: SUTHERLAND: My first drawing as an employee of Tactical Studies Rules will be of an Ahoggya! GARY: A...what? SUTHERLAND: An Ahoggya. (Then Sutherland gives him a physical description of this particular invention of Prof. Barker's.) GARY (thinking to himself): What have I gotten myself into with this academic? ;D |
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Post by harami2000 on Oct 13, 2009 10:06:48 GMT -6
IIRC, it was Sutherland who initially hooked up Gary and Phil, too. (After Mike Mornard hooked both Dave and Phil in the first place, no?) |
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Post by grodog on Oct 14, 2009 21:54:22 GMT -6
Could be, David, could be!
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Post by harami2000 on Oct 15, 2009 9:12:51 GMT -6
Could be, David, could be! Sensibly cautious as usual, Allan. Yeah... care required since total agreement on facts is kinda rare, I know. <bulk dump> (for logging convenience here, mostly) www.acaeum.com/forum/about5641.html * Mike introducing D&D to Phil - fair enough, phps and does not appear to be contested although elsewhere ( games.groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/message/24315 - original source for the previous(?), even if the woodgrains need bumping a few months) it's more that Mike was playing D&D and Phil watched, interpreted, critiqued and then constructed his own rules to incorporate Tekumel. So yes, "introduce" directly, or indirectly. games.groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/message/19162 (Paul's tribute to Dave Sutherland) * Dave being introduced to Phil "Eventually, Mike Mornard, a friend of Dave, also involved in the Society of Creative Anachronisms [sic], would introduce Dave to Professor M.A.R. Barker at the University of Minnesota in 1975" - Take as written, but obs. on the date in that Barker would already appear to have been playing EPT with Sutherland - or, at least, discussing Tekumel with him once that cat was out of the bag - by 1974 ( games.groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/message/19828 ). Unfortunately, Dave's posts on the list provide no further confirmation and I haven't trawled in depth elsewhere. - Mike's own posts on forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=228735 & forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=357393 ("about three years"?) do not state dates for that event First contact in person by EGG and RJK is their trip up to MN in 1975 - attested by both; www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/erkme10.pdf & EGG's Q&A page 23 on EN World, conveniently clipped to www.acaeum.com/forum/about5641.html **. Setting aside that he notes only one print of EPT and is cagey on profit matters in context. - that EN World EGG quote, however, also has that Phil contacted EGG directly (either by letter or 'phone?), rather than from Dave, although that could easily have been at the behest of Dave? Presuming recollections to be correct, of course. </bulk dump> Mike and others could, of course, shed more light on that... Anyhow; how many emails am I owing you by now? :/ d. = ** The "All the bells and whistles were to make the game as close to that Phil presented to his players" quote therein gets a smile as that reminds me of the deliberately nebulous/ambiguous wording in the intro in S3 where I've had fun discussing on wiki' with those who try to read more into things that is actually written by EGG - viz. in this case, with EPT, that the "bells and whistles" were in the product as published, rather than "all" created afresh by TSR to mirror Phil's game... |
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Post by thetekumelproject on Nov 26, 2009 20:04:15 GMT -6
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