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Post by danproctor on Sept 4, 2009 13:42:55 GMT -6
Hi guys, I just was curious whether FO! is now paying for submissions? I know they weren't in the beginning but I just wanted to know how things are working now.
Thanks!
Dan
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Post by Melan on Sept 4, 2009 13:54:28 GMT -6
No.  |
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Post by calithena on Sept 4, 2009 14:28:42 GMT -6
On our current fanzine model of pricing, FO! can't sustain paying contributors. We get around $1 per print issue.
I would like old school gaming to get so big that our circulation would go to 100x what it is now and we could pay at least short fiction-like rates, but as of now I'm not quitting my day job (though I may get canned at the end of this academic year).
That said, we'd love to get more LL and MF subs!
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Post by danproctor on Sept 4, 2009 21:43:35 GMT -6
I understand, I was just curious. I noticed you're charging for ads and charging for downloads, and some for hard copies, so since there is some revenue coming I wondered if you were paying artists and writers.
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Post by calithena on Sept 4, 2009 21:52:10 GMT -6
We do get some money from that stuff, but most of our sales are print and our ads are not expensive. Some of that money is going back out to the community by way of the contest prizes, and there actually are some operating costs here also (like fixing my computer when the hard drive crashes in the middle of layout). We are looking for other ways to share the wealth with the community as well. The amount there is wouldn't even cover one cent per word, though, never mind the art. It does help me buy wine, and part of the deal for contributors - although this doesn't benefit everyone - is that if we're ever in the same place and you're interested I'll pull something nice from my cellar to share with you. |
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Post by calithena on Sept 4, 2009 22:02:00 GMT -6
By the way, the reason the download prices are what they are is to incentivize print sales. We started out selling downloads much more cheaply but with that price structure it was ridiculous to ever buy a print issue unless you just hate computers, and we want people to read the magazine in print (it's often beautiful!), so that was how it came about. It worked too: print sales still vastly exceed PDF.
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Post by danproctor on Sept 4, 2009 22:07:14 GMT -6
There are various reasons why I asked, but I see no sense in going into all of it here. I'll contact you privately if I want more information.
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Post by calithena on Sept 4, 2009 22:08:56 GMT -6
OK, cool! I'm happy to answer your questions, so send them along if it seems appropriate.
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Post by Finarvyn on Sept 5, 2009 9:42:11 GMT -6
A lot of companies are going with the "print & PDF" bundle concept, where the combo is a lot cheaper than the sum bought individually. I think this came up some time earlier, but you might consider it again.
I know that groups like Evil Hat do this, and more recently I've discovered Rogue Games and they actually price things so that the PDF is free if you buy the print copy.
Also it would be cool if we could get subscriptions to Fight On! so that issues would be automatically mailed to me each month (or so) when they come out.
Just me thinking....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2009 10:27:01 GMT -6
Brave Halfling Publishing gives a free PDF copy to anyone buying the print version.
Just sayin' ... :-)
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Post by calithena on Sept 5, 2009 11:59:59 GMT -6
I'd love to do subscriptions, but with our current model they'd have to go through luu. I own exactly one copy of each issue of FO!, same as most of the rest of you.
That said, subscription copies would be slightly cheaper.
Bottom line is I can't do that stuff myself. This already takes way more time than I planned. I love it, but I'm well past my limit. If I had a local business partner things might be different, but I don't.
(That said, if one of you wants to make a business of say selling print copies of FO! at cons, or even trying to get them into distro through Alliance or IPR or whoever, I'm open to that. I guess I don't want other outlets selling it online or PDF, but if someone thinks they can make a business out of the print end, I will help you get set up to do that. My guess is I'd ask for a small flat fee per issue and you could print and sell at cons and in stores and in regular distro as many as you wanted for that fee. You could also do fulfillment for print subscriptions. This is obviously something to contact me about by email if anyone wants to do this, don't take it up in this thread until we have an arrangement handled out.)
Likewise if lulu had a way to do bundles I would offer them, but I have no way to know who buys anything through lulu, since they don't offer sellers that information. I have sometimes given discounted or free PDFs to print buyeres, but I have to handle that on a case by case basis. Again the problem isn't so much money as work. This is a hobby/fan activity for me and it sucks up a huge amount of time.
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Post by calithena on Sept 5, 2009 12:13:41 GMT -6
Just to be clear, this is the offer:
1) You pay FO! a small flat fee.
2) I hook you up with a PDF if you don't have one already.
3) You then get an exclusive right to print up copies of that issue and sell them either (a) at cons, (b) to vendors, or (c) to brick and mortar distributors. You can't sell the PDF and you can't sell them on-line. I don't want to see them on anyone else's webstore unless it's a big hobby shop that sells both B&M and online, in which case I'll roll with that, but no-one else should be selling them POD, on lulu or amazon, etc. This is for a person who thinks they can make money distributing FO! strictly through traditional outlets, since I basically do very little of that (although Endgame in Oakland looks like they want to start carrying a few copies in the store).
I personally think the viability of this offer depends on your access to cheap printing. If you can run off issues for a couple of bucks each there might be some money in it for you.
Anyway, again, this is an off-line conversation for anyone interested.
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Post by Finarvyn on Sept 7, 2009 7:36:01 GMT -6
Sorry. Not trying to stir up trouble but instead just brainstorming out loud. I know that this is a hobby endeavor for you and I'm sure if you factored in your time you're losing big bucks on each issue.
I was just thinking how cool it is when my issue of The Crusader hits my mailbox each month, totally unexpected and un-planned. I just open the mailbox one day and it consumes my evening. :-) I had just thought that it would be neat if FO! could do this as well.
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Post by calithena on Sept 7, 2009 8:42:30 GMT -6
I'd love to do subs too Fin. It's just a question of organizing it.
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Post by robertsconley on Sept 7, 2009 9:09:41 GMT -6
I would caution against subscriptions. They represent a financial commitment to release future issues on a periodic basis. If anything happens that hoses the schedule then all of sudden you are stuck with a lot of liability.
If you intend to treat this as your day job then this risk can be manageable but if your commitment is on a part-time hobby level (even with the result rivals professional stuff) then I would urge you not to do this based on what I seen happen elsewhere. The risk of ill-will due to missed deadlines is just not worth it. With money on the line people are not going to be as tolerant.
If Lulu tells you who are the individual buyers are then what I would do is this: If you buy so many issues of Fight On! in a row then you will get a coupon to buy the next issue at a discount.
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Post by Melan on Sept 7, 2009 10:12:10 GMT -6
I would caution against subscriptions. They represent a financial commitment to release future issues on a periodic basis. If anything happens that hoses the schedule then all of sudden you are stuck with a lot of liability. Case in point: James Mishler's Adventure Games Publishing. |
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Post by calithena on Sept 7, 2009 13:18:37 GMT -6
I know, Rob. The commitment doesn't scare me, but doing fulfillment does.
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