How much XP do I give?

[chronoplasm]

I'm a bit confused about how to award experience.
A party of three with three hirelings beat four skeletons. No treasure was found.
How do I figure out how much XP to give?

[coffee]

Not meaning to be facetious, but it depends on which rules you're using.

In the original 3 little booklets, it would 100 xp per hit die (actually monster level, but that's a minor quibble at best). This wasn't spelled out, but that's how it would work out.

Then Greyhawk changed things, so that lower level monsters were worth less and higher level ones were worth more. (As an aside, I like the original system better. At lower levels you need to advance more rapidly, while at higher levels you can do so much more and last so much longer that you don't need to advance so quickly. My 2 cents.)

Anyway, when you get the total, whichever way, divide it between the player characters. The hirelings don't get experience.

So, considering the skeletons as a first level monster, they're 100 xp each. 400/3 = 133.

(If you consider the skeletons as half-hit-die monsters, you might want to give 50 xp each -- this would change the result to 67 xp/character.)

Others may have a different take on it. In the end, whatever works for you and your players is the right way to do it.

Hope that helps!


-----

Edit: Oh, that was for us. Duh. In that case, I think you should wing it and just give us a level each (just kidding!)

[chronoplasm]

Sept 4, 2009 10:22:55 GMT -6 coffee said:

Edit: Oh, that was for us. Duh. In that case, I think you should wing it and just give us a level each (just kidding!)

heh. Slick.

100 per hit die sounds good though. Thanks.

[Morandir]

It will also depend on what level the group is, and on what level of the dungeon the monsters were encountered (assuming this encounter took place in a dungeon, anyway). If the characters are higher level than the level of the dungeon, then only a fraction of the standard XP is given, commensurate to each character's level. For instance, if a 4th level character is adventuring on the 3rd level of a dungeon, then only 3/4 of the standard XP would be earned. This is detailed on pg. 18 of Men & Magic.

FWIW, I agree with Coffee on using the XP/HD found in the 3LBBs. However I use 50 XP/HD because my group is used to 3e where no XP is given for treasure, and I really want to drive home that treasure, not killing, is the primary motivator in OD&D.

Mor

[coffee]

Sept 4, 2009 18:01:19 GMT -6 Morandir said:

FWIW, I agree with Coffee on using the XP/HD found in the 3LBBs. However I use 50 XP/HD because my group is used to 3e where no XP is given for treasure, and I really want to drive home that treasure, not killing, is the primary motivator in OD&D.

That's a very good point.

In the example given in Men & Magic, the characters have defeated a Troll (which at 6+3 HD is a 7th level monster). So they get 700 for that. And they found 7000 gp, so they get 7000 for that.

XP for treasure is definitely the way to go, because treasure IS the primary motivator of the dungeon crawler.

[Deleted]

100XP/HD (50XP/0.5HD, 25XP for anything less) works great. I even use it for 1E. It just makes everything so much easier.

[Brunomac]

Sorry to reignite a months old thread, but thought it might be better than starting a new similar one.

In the troll example above, don't you get more experience because of it's regeneration ability?

And speaking of abilities, do the skeletons in the original example get to be worth a bit more xp because of their ability to take half damage from sharp weapons? How helpful to a monster should an ability be to add on to the xp total?

I ask because I am running an OD&D game Saturday night, and wasn't sure how to deal with special ability xp.

[coffee]

Special abilities aren't really counted. It's just 100 per monster level.

Oddly enough, bonus hit points count as an additional die -- the troll is 6+3 hit dice, so counts as a 7th level monster.

Naturally, as the DM, you're free to bump up the XP if you feel the party deserves it. That regeneration does get nasty.

(Actually, sharp objects doing less damage to skeletons came about later -- it isn't in the description in Volume II, anyway...)


Anyway, that's the way I read it.

[kesher]

Oddly enough, bonus hit points count as an additional die -- the troll is 6+3 hit dice, so counts as a 7th level monster.

Which means you'd actually get 700 xp for it, which is like a bonus for toughness, or something...

I actually do usually give a 50 xp bonus for each special ability a monster possesses. When I remember, anyway...

[philotomy]

The LBB method of awarding XP demands a lot of referee judgment. I advise looking at it as a loose guideline, rather than an exact formula. Also, if using the 100XP per HD guideline, I think you should definitely be adjusting XP down according to relative levels (otherwise low-level monsters become too attractive for higher level PCs).

For example, let's take that troll, and say you're awarding 700XP for it, since it has 6+ HD. Let's say it's defeated by a group of four 4th level Fighting Men. I'd adjust the XP as follows:

• Adjusted monster level = 6 + 1 (extra hp) + 1 (regeneration) = 8
  (and if you're giving the troll 3 attacks, I'd bump it, again, to 9)
  
• Adjusted PC levels = 4 x 4 = 16
  
• Ratio is 8/16 = 1/2 = 0.50.
  
• So I'd award 700 x 0.5 / 4, or 88 XP per Fighting Man.
  

Adjusted XP always goes down, never up. If the adjusted PC levels are equal or higher than the monster levels, the PCs don't get extra, they just get full XP.

[philotomy]

Sept 4, 2009 9:16:07 GMT -6 chronoplasm said:

I'm a bit confused about how to award experience.
A party of three with three hirelings beat four skeletons. No treasure was found.
How do I figure out how much XP to give?

Here's an example of how I might do it with LBB XP and a 1st level party.

• Skeletons are 1/2HD in the LBB, so base XP is 50 per skeleton, or 200XP.
  
• Adjusted skeleton level = I'd bump them up to level 1 for their special qualities, so 4 skeletons x 1 = 4
  
• Adjusted party level = I'd count 0-level NPCs as 1/2 level (assuming they were 0-level fighters that participated, not just torch-bearers). So (3 x 0.5) + (3 x 1) = 4.5
  
• Ratio is 4/4.5 = 0.89
  
• 50 x 4 x 0.89 = 178 XP
  
• 178XP / 6 characters = 30
  
• Each PC would get 30 xp. The hirelings can't earn XP, so their shares are lost. (If one was a 1st level henchman, he would get 1/2 share, or 15XP, but that would also have changed the adjusted party level, slightly)
  

Note that, without adjustment, each PC would get 33 XP instead of 30 XP (200 / 6 instead of 178 / 6). You might argue that adjusting the XP isn't really worth the effort when the fight is pretty even (especially with low HD monsters). I tend to agree with that. Adjusting the XP is mainly significant if the fight is uneven in the PCs' favor.

[Brunomac]

Bumping up a level for a medium sort of power sounds good.

I'm pretty free wheelin' with experience in my 1st ed. games, usually giving more for role play and generally accomplishments over monster killing. But I want to try and be as authentic as possible with the OD&D games.

I'll probably try to keep monsters at around the parties level. All that adjusting for level differences would make me feel like I was rolling up a Champions character

[philotomy]

Jan 6, 2010 17:26:43 GMT -6 Brunomac said:

I'll probably try to keep monsters at around the parties level. All that adjusting for level differences would make me feel like I was rolling up a Champions character

Yeah, it's really only worth it if there's a big discrepancy. Use it if you find your 4th level PCs and their slew of men-at-arms camping out on the 1st level of the dungeon looking for wandering monsters to kill for their 100XP per HD.

Also, some referee's (e.g. coffee) don't include hirelings when dividing the XP into shares. I do because my players tend to charm and hire a whole slew of hirelings. (One recent foray included 3 PCs and 9 NPCs.) I'd include the hirelings in the division if they are significant (e.g. they are active men-at-arms holding battle lines, fighting, and firing arrows). If they're just linkboys and loot-carriers that don't fight, then I wouldn't count them.

Most of the XP your PC will accrue will come from treasure, in any case. (The traditional ratio is somewhere around 20% monster and 80% treasure.) Treasure gets divided by the players, so they have a lot of control over how that XP gets divided (much more so than monster XP).

[philotomy]

Jan 6, 2010 17:26:43 GMT -6 Brunomac said:

Bumping up a level for a medium sort of power sounds good.

Yeah. For reference, here's what the 1e DMG advises: "With respect to monsters, each hit die balances 1 experience level, counting each special ability and each exceptional special ability as an additional hit die, and also counting any hit point plus as an additional hit die."

(This is in reference to comparing total monster levels to total party levels.)

[Brunomac]

Now that I am thinking more seriously about xp than I have for years (such a lazy DM - how did I make it 30 years?), lots of great thoughts are flying in to my pea brain.

Like hows about those Carrion Crawlers? As 4th level monsters with 8 total knock-out attacks that have to be saved against (assuming I have run them right in the past), you got yourself at least an 8th leveler in terms of xp, right?

I have phoned in my 1st ed. games for so many years, it may be nice to crunch some numbers in-game to perk the brain up a bit beyond providing battles and role-play possibilities. XP is one of those things I'm afraid I dumbed down for myself some time in the early 90's. The players never complained - I usually end up being more generous than I should be.

[philotomy]

Jan 6, 2010 19:25:41 GMT -6 Brunomac said:

Like hows about those Carrion Crawlers? As 4th level monsters with 8 total knock-out attacks that have to be saved against (assuming I have run them right in the past), you got yourself at least an 8th leveler in terms of xp, right?

That sounds reasonable, to me.

If you examine the 1e XP for a Carrion Crawler, you see it gets 60 XP for being a 3+ HD monster, and 520 XP from special abilities. Normally, multiple attacks is considered special ability, but the crawler's don't do damage. Paralysis is considered an exceptional ability worth 65 XP (for a 3+1 HD creature). I think EGG assigned a value of 65 for each of the crawlers eight tentacles, since each one can paralyze (65 x 8 = 520).

So in LBB terms, you'd certainly be justified evaluating a crawler as at least an 8th level monster for XP/level comparison purposes. (The crawler is an excellent example of a monster where the DM should exercise some judgment in the awarding of XP.)