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Post by dwayanu on Aug 11, 2009 1:05:52 GMT -6
To me, "old school" means something in RPG design more than just "just like D&D" -- but that's something easier shown by example than conveyed just by talking about it.
I think I have accumulated some pretty good ideas over the years, especially about mechanisms, structure and presentation. A lot of those are lessons learned the hard way, as I have always been more about running "my" game than someone else's system.
I also have plenty of ideas about settings, themes, and so on -- but my tastes don't necessarily have traction with anyone else. For example, a while ago I proposed to a gaming group a subluminal/relativistic interstellar campaign in which the players would command such awesome resources (and such deep time) as that kind of rocketry necessarily entails even in a "so best it may as well be magic" scenario.
Well, I guess there's a good reason why, if an RPG like that has ever been published, I have never heard of it!
So, I am soliciting "brainstorms" from you worthies as to what elements not done to death might be of enough interest as to warrant actual play. "Orcs in [fill in the blank]" does not count, nor does "[Something-]Punk". Much more predefinition would rather spoil the point of brainstorming.
I'll offer these points about the approach I have in mind, and how it departs from D&D: Think "episodic", not "epic"; mechanical growth in horizontal versatility more than in vertical power; probably based not on "character classes" but on combinations of traits -- and a good many of those more qualitative than strictly quantitative.
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Post by ragnorakk on Aug 11, 2009 19:16:19 GMT -6
So, I am soliciting "brainstorms" from you worthies as to what elements not done to death might be of enough interest as to warrant actual play. "Orcs in [fill in the blank]" does not count, nor does "[Something-]Punk". Much more predefinition would rather spoil the point of brainstorming. I'll offer these points about the approach I have in mind, and how it departs from D&D: Think "episodic", not "epic"; mechanical growth in horizontal versatility more than in vertical power; probably based not on "character classes" but on combinations of traits -- and a good many of those more qualitative than strictly quantitative. Well - I'm always interested in your ideas, Dwayanu, but don't know if I can add much, and think that I'm not getting something fundamental here. (big surprise there  ) I'm not sure how much you are interested in mechanical or 'setting' ideas, or how much of a division between them you are interested in) so - some off-top-of-head-ism follows. episodic vs epic (very broadly applicable) horizontal vs vertical growth (sounds somewhat like rolemaster) traits vs class (sounds somewhat like tunnels and trolls) something for the last two points: make up a table (a la Gamma World mutations) listing every 'class specific' or 'race specific' ability and have the characters acquire some number of these mutations by random roll. Or treat all of these features as things that can be acquired in-game, perhaps? (helpful?)  |
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Post by chronoplasm on Aug 11, 2009 19:30:30 GMT -6
So, I am soliciting brainstorms; from you worthies as to what elements not done to death might be of enough interest as to warrant actual play. Orcs in [fill in the blank]; does not count, nor does [Something-]Punk. Much more predefinition would rather spoil the point of brainstorming. So... no Orc Punk? A shame. I can almost see Tolkien's listening to the Ramones and the Clash in their dark lairs, with anarchy symbols on their helms and Sex Pistols t-shirts on their backs. |
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Post by dwayanu on Aug 12, 2009 22:47:54 GMT -6
"Orc Punk" in that sense makes me think of Shadowrun; been there, done that!
I'm curious about settings and other things that seem as if they ought to be good inspirations, but not to have received a decent RPG treatment already. That is likely to mean different things to different people, but some input would be nifty.
Some more ideas people are welcome to rate (cool or not?):
Rain forest writ fantastically large, weird and dangerous, a la Aldiss's Hothouse and Foster's Midworld.
A "sword and sorcery" campaign evocative of Lovecraft's Dreamlands and Lord Dunsany's Pegana.
Science-fantasy space opera inspired by the works of Cordwainer Smith, A.E. Van Vogt and Jack Vance.
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Post by chronoplasm on Aug 12, 2009 22:54:07 GMT -6
I've never played Shadowrun.
A Dreamlands inspired game would indeed be very cool, especially if ghouls and cats were playable races.
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 13, 2009 5:11:41 GMT -6
Overall, it seems like almost everything has been covered someplace in some system. Often I would rather re-do the system, but I don't think this is what you mean. For example, there is a Soloman Kane RPG but it's in Savage Worlds so I may never actually get to play it. There was also a Dune RPG but nobody gets to play it because it was such a limited run. I'd like to see Pirates of the Caribbean even thought I know of several other pirates RPGs out there.
I guess it always seems like all of the good ideas are taken, until someone hits upon one that no one else has thought of and we all look at each other and say "duh, of course!"
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Post by Pierce Inverarity on Aug 13, 2009 17:17:30 GMT -6
Science-fantasy space opera inspired by the works of Cordwainer Smith, A.E. Van Vogt and Jack Vance. This would be very nice, and it hasn't been done yet. Dying Earth? Yes. Demon Princes? No. Van Vogt would be fascinating to tackle as well. |
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Post by ragnorakk on Aug 13, 2009 18:00:55 GMT -6
Wil McCarthy's The Collapsium could be a pretty amazing setting (Hard Sci High Fantasy)  As could be the Dancers at the End of Time by Moorcock - but, again, really high fantasy... |
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Post by dwayanu on Aug 13, 2009 19:55:26 GMT -6
The literary references are just analogies, like Gene Roddenberry's pitch of Star Trek as "'Wagon Train' to the stars." I don't anticipate actually seeking a license to use someone else's fictional world!
The "space opera" idea is a response to how the -- for want of a better term at the moment -- weird seems to be lacking in much popular SF and in RPGs especially, the sense of getting thrust into a future as unexpected as today's world was by the prognosticators of previous centuries.
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Post by kesher on Aug 14, 2009 7:30:02 GMT -6
Dwayanu, I think I understand what you're asking for, but I just want to clarify: You want to brainstorm here around game "elements" that maybe haven't seen much light, right? And by elements, you mean, what---setting? Theme? Both? That's what I'm culling from your interstellar campaign example... But you've already got a system in mind? One of your own creation? And the "old school" connection here is that you're tinkering your own system based what has worked well and brought you and your players gaming joy over the years? If that's so, I'd definitely call it "the old school mindset"!  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 14, 2009 9:54:43 GMT -6
Science-fantasy space opera inspired by the works of Cordwainer Smith, A.E. Van Vogt and Jack Vance. This would be very nice, and it hasn't been done yet. Perhaps you haven't seen Thousand Suns by Rogue Games, written by Grognardia's own James Maliszewski (with Richard Iorio). Picked this up at GenCon yesterday and I'm about halfway through it. I'm becoming a big fan!  |
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Post by coffee on Aug 14, 2009 13:00:47 GMT -6
Perhaps you haven't seen Thousand Suns by Rogue Games, written by Grognardia's own James Maliszewski (with Richard Iorio). Picked this up at GenCon yesterday and I'm about halfway through it. I'm becoming a big fan! Somebody mentioned that one on their blog recently. I was this close to getting it, but ended up getting Rocketship Empires 1936 instead. But now you've got me curious. How would Thousand Suns go down with an old Traveller fan, in your opinion? |
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 14, 2009 14:11:08 GMT -6
How would Thousand Suns go down with an old Traveller fan, in your opinion? I think you'd like it, Coffee, but I thought it would be better to continue our discussion about Thousand Suns here instead of continuing to hijack this thread.  |
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Post by dwayanu on Aug 15, 2009 1:39:40 GMT -6
@ Kesher: The "system", in such superficial aspects as dice shapes and preferred expressions of equations, is in no firm form. Having played the spectrum from OD&D to Phoenix Command (or wherever you place the rainbow's other end), I don't think there's anything really new under that sun. People who get hung up on that seem to produce games that feel to me more like a trip to Vegas than like "a revolution in role-playing".
I've got some principles and methods that seem to work pretty well, but they are not very sexy as de-contextualized abstractions.
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Post by dwayanu on Aug 15, 2009 1:50:07 GMT -6
No, I have not seen Thousand Suns! One of these days, I must send an e-mail to someone so I can see the design journal that refuses to download for me.
I'll bet, though, that I'm not too far from the mark in calling it more Piper and Anderson.
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Post by dwayanu on Aug 15, 2009 1:57:40 GMT -6
A "know you're old" / "golden yesteryears" moment: I remember first encountering Anderson's SF in the pages of Boy's Life at the dentist's office.
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Post by dwayanu on Aug 15, 2009 2:20:21 GMT -6
Have I said that I'm grateful to y'all for humoring me so far? Well, as the cat 8 lives down said, "Here we go again!"
Thing is, I've got strong opinions but I'm wary of becoming the sort of "critic" who seems merely to confirm a saw about "those who can't do".
Also, talk about game design seems to get terribly muddled when taken in the abstract. Ends and means typically get treated with all the care you might reasonably expect from a standard of "I don't like" = "crap".
Have I mentioned that, if I could have babies, I would want to have the babies of Paul Elliott's Zenobia?
That's not about a genotype, really; it's about a spirit.
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) I'm not sure how much you are interested in mechanical or 'setting' ideas,
