[Chainmail] Mass Combat Tables

[Finarvyn]

I'm thinking of the ones on page 40. I've been running some OD&D-style games using Chainmail and my own Ringmail Variant charts.

Does anyone else think that the balance on the charts is kind of messed up?

Seems like a small shift on these tables can have a huge impact on the outcome of the battle. For example, in the "Light Horse vs" column I note that fighting Light Foot they get 2 dice per man 5-6 kills but when fighting Heavy foot it's 2 dice per man 6 kills.

So, the defender shifting from Light Foot to Medium Foot has a huge difference in the chance to be hit --> 17% compared to 33%. I notice this effect is even more significant if you're throwing a Hero into the battle because he can absorb a lot more hits before dying.

I realize that this is a function of using d6 dice, since there are limited numbers of potential numbers to hit (6, 5-6, 4-6, and so on) but a 17% swing based on a single shift in armor type seems pretty extreme.

I had a couple options I might try:
* Using different dice than d6.
* Adding attack dice for AC change instead of making hit probability of 6 into 5-6. (So maybe 2 dice per man could become 3 dice per man, or something like that, but remain 6 to hit.)
* Or maybe something else entirely?

Has anyone experimented with any other options? How did it work out?

[jcstephens]

The difference between Light and Heavy Foot is more than just armor. Light Footmen are usually missile troops and skirmishers, and fight spread out. It's easy for horsemen to ride them down. Heavy Footmen fight as a compact mass, and can resist a charge better. The combat tables probably reflect the difference in tactics as well as equipment.

[Deleted]

The percentage for 2 dice to score a hit on a 5 or 6 is close to 56% for a hit.
With 2 dice to score a hit on a 6 it is close to 31% for a hit.
The difference for a Light Horse to hit a Light Foot compared to Heavy Foot would be about 25%.

It may depend where you draw the line on AC. My conversion to D&D from chainmail would be Armored Foot AC 2-3, Heavy Foot AC 4-5, and Light Foot AC 6-9. The importance of wearing metal armor would be reflected in the combat table. The troops who wore better armor were also better trained for melee, with only a few historical exceptions. My advice would be to keep the table as is and take a look at where you divide the AC.

[Finarvyn]

Aug 2, 2009 17:27:38 GMT -6 @rabbit said:

The percentage for 2 dice to score a hit on a 5 or 6 is close to 56% for a hit.
With 2 dice to score a hit on a 6 it is close to 31% for a hit.
The difference for a Light Horse to hit a Light Foot compared to Heavy Foot would be about 25%.

I probably should have clarified a little. The Chainmail combat system isn't about rolling 2d6 to obtain a single number. Each d6 is its own roll, so if I'm rolling two dice I might score two hits if each is a 6 (or if each is a 5-6, depending upon the example used).

Some attacks may be made at 1 die per 1 figure attacking, some at 2 dice per figure attacking, others might be 1 die per 2 figures attacking. Clearly I picked a poor example by using two dice for each.

Does that help?

[thegreyelf]

In general I agree with jcstephens. The tables reflect the training, experience, and tactics of the unit as well as its equipment.

[jacar]

Generally, the difference in the tables occur with light vs medium vs heavy and then another difference between mounted vs foot.
Groupings could be 1-4 figures (whatever the table says)

Infantry vs infantry usually get 1 die per grouping and a small to large chance to hit.
Infantry vs cavalry is usually 1 die per grouping and a small chance to hit.
Cavalry vs infantry is usually 1 or more dice per grouping and a small to large chance to hit.
Cavalry vs Cavalry is usually 1 die per grouping and a small to medium chance to hit.

Echoing what others say, equipment plays a big part in skirmish style gaming but should only play a small part in massed combat. There are too many historical examples where the better equipped army does not win. Tactics, training and morale rule the day.

My 2 coppers...

John

[codeman123]

Holy beholder! I feel like an idiot. I have been trying to figure out how these combat tables work and for years i have always thought they read as so for example

Heavy Foot
vs. (blank) -2 dice per a man

i always thought this meant actually subtract two dice.. wow i feel stupid i have been racking over the chainmail rules forever trying to figure out how many dice a man rolls to attack and was just about to post this question when Fin. just cleared it up for me.

[tombowings]

Mar 8, 2010 23:03:20 GMT -6 codeman123 said:

Holy beholder! I feel like an idiot. I have been trying to figure out how these combat tables work and for years i have always thought they read as so for example

Heavy Foot
vs. (blank) -2 dice per a man

i always thought this meant actually subtract two dice.. wow i feel stupid i have been racking over the chainmail rules forever trying to figure out how many dice a man rolls to attack and was just about to post this question when Fin. just cleared it up for me.

Don't worry, that's exactly what I though until a few days ago, too.