OD&D Weaponless Combat published in UA

[Falconer]

“I do have one severe problem with my own game system. I got talked into doing the complicated and time-consuming series for grappling, pummeling, and overbearing in a weak moment. I have regretted them ever since. I tend to use a very simple system which we initially developed for such close-quarters combat in about 1974.” --Gary Gygax, Dungeon #67, p.66

Doubtless this is what he published in Unearthed Arcana as "System I"?

[Falconer]

UA's "System II" seems to be Roger E. Moore's invention from Dragon #83.

[Zulgyan]

The I use a very simple system derived from the OD&D FAQ that appeared in THE STRATEGIC REVIEW Vol. 1, No. 2 (Summer 1975): it's based on rolling HD. For combat maneuvers, you roll HD vs. HD to see who wins. For a 4th level fighting-man trying to grapple a 4th level magic-user will be 4d6 vs. 2d6+1.

Two of the Orcs have grappled the Hero, and if his score with 4 dice is less than their score with 2 dice he has been pinned helplessly. If it is a tie they are struggling, with the Hero still on his feet, but he will be unable to defend himself with his weapon. If the Hero scores higher than the Orcs use the positive difference to throw off his attackers, i.e. the Hero scores 15 and the Orcs scored but 8, so the Hero has tossed both aside, stunning them for 7 turns between them.

www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=57

I have used this system for disarm maneuvers and lot's of other actions in which it made sense.

[snorri]

Use this for normal fight and yoiu got a nice T&T-like system

[Deleted]

May 26, 2009 11:36:04 GMT -6 Zulgyan said:

I use a very simple system derived from the OD&D FAQ that appeared in THE STRATEGIC REVIEW Vol. 1, No. 2 (Summer 1975): it's based on rolling HD. For combat maneuvers, you roll HD vs. HD to see who wins.

Since you like the simplicity of this system, as do I, you may be interested to know this little tidbit. Gary once remarked that, using this system and the example you quoted, if four of the orcs successfully hit he would allow an automatic overbear.

He said that was a general sort of guideline, and if memory serves he went on to talk about how he often used capture of heroes rather than death in a bad situation. This was one tool he used.

Still, it sort of makes sense. If four man-sized opponents grab you then most anyone would go down. I suppose a saving throw or a 1-in-20 chance could be allowed.

Just rambling.

[snorri]

It's an important point to plays what Jamesm would call the "pulp roots of d&d": heroes are generally captured or knocked-out rather than being killed. It's intersting Gary did that - and obvsiously, the 'you awkake in a cell' or 'you're tied in the torture chamber' are important parts of any pulp game.

So, having rules which makes capture a possible option is always usefull (in E&S, I suggested that characters below 0hp don't die, but the referee should rather use it as a bump for the story).

[Ghul]

May 26, 2009 15:06:57 GMT -6 snorri said:

It's an important point to plays what Jamesm would call the "pulp roots of d&d": heroes are generally captured or knocked-out rather than being killed. It's intersting Gary did that - and obvsiously, the 'you awkake in a cell' or 'you're tied in the torture chamber' are important parts of any pulp game.

This is an excellent point, and one that I relish employing when I have my players down and out, and generally at my mercy. Pulp, indeed.

One of my favorite such occurrences was during my group's play-testing of Castle Zagyg: The Upper Works. Beaten down, captured by humanoids, and stripped of their clothing and possessions, they awoke to find themselves in a cell, bound by manacles and garbed in nothing more than loincloths. One of the fighters, being of exceptional strength, made his bend bars/lift gate check, and snapped his manacles, and those of his comrades.

In the cell, a secret door was found, likely placed by the dwarven slaves who had built the jail ages ago, or perhaps by the whim of a certain mad archmage its existence was effected.

In short order the bloodied and beaten group escaped bondage, and down the dark escape tunnel they ventured. They soon fell into combat with a group of fire beetles. They used stones to fight the creatures, as well as a broken door of iron banded oak.

After managing a tight victory, they snapped off the mandibles of the dead fire beetles for use as knives, and removed the glowing glands as well. Now they had glowing glands, mandibles, and loincloths.

For a stretch of two sessions, they explored in this desperate fashion, and our game during this span was no longer called "D&D"; rather, my players lovingly called it "L&M" for Loincloths & Mandibles. ;D