Post by The Fiendish Dr. Samsara on May 20, 2009 19:12:28 GMT -6
This has become something of a cottage industry of late. Or it would be, if we got paid for any of this. In any case, the situation is that many folks want to include a Thief Class but have problems with the official version (or, versions, really). The usual argument is that Thieves introduce some kind of “skill system” and/or have special abilities which imply that other Classes do not have those abilities. Something like that, at any rate.
My problem with Thieves is that they are boring. Incredibly boring. I have never found Thief abilities to overwhelm other classes; rather I have consistently found over many years Thieves to be overwhelmed by everyone else. I’ll hasten to add that this is my experience and may not reflect yours. In my games, anyone can look for traps and try and describe disarming them. Anyone can try and sneak. So what the hell is the Thief for?
And yet. And yet the archetype of the Cunning Rogue is a strong one. And D&D is built upon strong archetypes. Here’s where I found my problem: when I try and come up with archetypal characters who match the D&D Thief, I don’t get anyone. The only one I have ever come up with is the Grey Mouser, but he really doesn’t fit the class as written. Then, while walking, it dawned upon me that I was an idiot for forgetting about Cugel the Clever.
That’s when the wheel started turning. I should, at this point, say that this idea just occurred to me about 20 minutes ago while walking, so I haven’t given it great thought. But what is common to the Mouser and Cugel in terms of abilities described in the texts? It certainly isn’t Hiding in Shadows. The one really common thing that jumps out at me is that they are both jacks-of-all-trades, including a familiarity with magic. The Mouser was a magician’s apprentice and “counters” a lighting spell at one point with that knowledge. Cugel finds himself in possession of Incounnu’s spellbook and learns some powerful spells (albeit poorly).
Now D&D sort of kind of addresses this by letting higher level Thieves read magic and use Scrolls, but it really doesn’t work for me. So, here’s the idea: Thieves gain limited spell-casting and can use all magical items.
The second first: ALL. Magical swords, magical armour, staves of the magi. The whole shebang. Maybe they should have a misfire chance though.
The first: Thieves have the spell-casting abilities of a wizard at half their current level rounded down. So, nothing at 1st level (making a neat parallel with the Cleric). One 1st level spell at 2nd level and no change at 3rd. And so on.
My system of choice right now Spellcraft & Swordplay which uses the Chainmail idea of a Casting Roll, unlike D&D proper. In S&S, I think I would give Thieves a blanket penalty to their Casting Rolls (minus 2 or 3). This wouldn’t apply to D&D proper obviously; maybe import one of the miscasting rules from AD&D?
Related to that, I might add a Thief ability something like Legend Lore. Thieves pick up a lot of weird knowledge as they go along, and might therefore have chance of recognizing certain magical items based on stories and rumours.
They would still get the usual Thief abilities (although I really might lose Pick Pocket which never caused anything but trouble in my games).
I don’t think that this would grossly over-power Thieves, although it might require that their XP requirements be raised a bit. It would certainly add some roundedness to the class.
What do think?
My problem with Thieves is that they are boring. Incredibly boring. I have never found Thief abilities to overwhelm other classes; rather I have consistently found over many years Thieves to be overwhelmed by everyone else. I’ll hasten to add that this is my experience and may not reflect yours. In my games, anyone can look for traps and try and describe disarming them. Anyone can try and sneak. So what the hell is the Thief for?
And yet. And yet the archetype of the Cunning Rogue is a strong one. And D&D is built upon strong archetypes. Here’s where I found my problem: when I try and come up with archetypal characters who match the D&D Thief, I don’t get anyone. The only one I have ever come up with is the Grey Mouser, but he really doesn’t fit the class as written. Then, while walking, it dawned upon me that I was an idiot for forgetting about Cugel the Clever.
That’s when the wheel started turning. I should, at this point, say that this idea just occurred to me about 20 minutes ago while walking, so I haven’t given it great thought. But what is common to the Mouser and Cugel in terms of abilities described in the texts? It certainly isn’t Hiding in Shadows. The one really common thing that jumps out at me is that they are both jacks-of-all-trades, including a familiarity with magic. The Mouser was a magician’s apprentice and “counters” a lighting spell at one point with that knowledge. Cugel finds himself in possession of Incounnu’s spellbook and learns some powerful spells (albeit poorly).
Now D&D sort of kind of addresses this by letting higher level Thieves read magic and use Scrolls, but it really doesn’t work for me. So, here’s the idea: Thieves gain limited spell-casting and can use all magical items.
The second first: ALL. Magical swords, magical armour, staves of the magi. The whole shebang. Maybe they should have a misfire chance though.
The first: Thieves have the spell-casting abilities of a wizard at half their current level rounded down. So, nothing at 1st level (making a neat parallel with the Cleric). One 1st level spell at 2nd level and no change at 3rd. And so on.
My system of choice right now Spellcraft & Swordplay which uses the Chainmail idea of a Casting Roll, unlike D&D proper. In S&S, I think I would give Thieves a blanket penalty to their Casting Rolls (minus 2 or 3). This wouldn’t apply to D&D proper obviously; maybe import one of the miscasting rules from AD&D?
Related to that, I might add a Thief ability something like Legend Lore. Thieves pick up a lot of weird knowledge as they go along, and might therefore have chance of recognizing certain magical items based on stories and rumours.
They would still get the usual Thief abilities (although I really might lose Pick Pocket which never caused anything but trouble in my games).
I don’t think that this would grossly over-power Thieves, although it might require that their XP requirements be raised a bit. It would certainly add some roundedness to the class.
What do think?
