Post by wheelsonmeals on Mar 18, 2009 14:56:08 GMT -6
Hi all,
I stumbled upon this board awhile back when I started digging into prior editions of D&D for ways to enhance the 4e game I DM, and I must say that there are loads of interesting conversations going on here. Fun to read even though they're all about a game I've never played.
In the process of looking at various things OD&D a funny thing happened: I became enamored with Chainmail. Not even the fantasy rules supplement and all that D&D-like jazz, just pp. 1-24 + Appendix A of my shiny new PDF. So much so that I'm thinking about trying to play (using these guys as minis) in a couple weeks when my brother-in-law comes to town. My only problem is that my modern gaming mind (with absolutely no military miniatures experience) is having some trouble understanding how some parts of the game are supposed to work. I know most of you on here are D&Ders first and foremost, but any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Apologies in advance about the epic first post.
1) Fatigue (p. 11)
I'm probably just being too much of a fussbudget here, but the conditions that bring on fatigue seem way too specific in cases 2 & 3. Is charging between movement & melee required to bring on fatigue quickly? I could see an instance where some pikemen march for 4 turns and hastily set their pikes for an incoming charge. By the guidelines here, they wouldn't be fatigued until after 3 rounds of melee despite all that movement they just did.
I used the conditions as written and some simple algebra to come up with a numerical system that I'm considering using. It covers all 4 of the examples as well as any other possible combination of actions. Each unit earns fatigue points, and when their total >= 15 they become fatigued.
Movement - 3
Charging - 4
Melee - 5
It breaks down in some cases with the mythical Swiss/Landsknechte (Boy, they get a lot of love) and their ill-defined doubling rule, but I guess that's what happens when you try to apply math to something that wasn't based on math in the first place.
2) Melee (p. 14-16)
I'm really struggling with what melee looks like on the table. I can see how most of the individual pieces work, but when I try to throw it all together I make a hash of it. An example of something beyond the post-melee morale rules (which are actually fairly straightforward) would have been helpful.
- Rounds: Melee is referred to in rounds throughout, but it's never explicitly stated anywhere if the melee portion of the turn sequence is supposed to be as many rounds as it takes to resolve it, or if it's limited to one round per turn sequence? In other words, do two forces in melee keep fighting in the same turn until one side is killed or forced to retreat?
- Combatants: Who exactly is involved in a given melee? It states that one rank of soldiers fights (p. 15), but then goes on to add misc rule #3 (p. 16) where anyone within 3" can be pulled into a melee. On top of that, these extra participants can move up to 6" into the melee. I don't understand why they'd need to move 6" if they were only 3" away in the first place.
They mostly make sense if two similar formations are clashing on the battlefield because everything lines up well, but as an example what happens if a 2x5 column of medium cavalry charges an 11x2 line of light foot soldiers in an attempt to smash a hole right through the formation?
Using the first rank rule, only 2 cavalry could be brought to bear vs 3 foot soldiers? Or does the 3" rule imply that I could make it 6 cavalry vs 8 foot soldiers? Or does that interpretation violate the first rank rule, so it would be 2 cavalry vs 8 foot soldiers? And would those 8 foot soldiers be able to move up to 6" in order to flank the onrush of cavalry? You can see where I start to pull my hair out.
Regardless of what was used, let's say that only 2 foot soldiers fall and no cavalry die, leaving 10 cavalry & 20 foot. As a result, nobody retreats due to morale. We carry on to the next round of melee. The charging forces were not victorious in one round so they don't get to continue their charge (p. 15). Misc rule #4 states that a bunch of our uncovered footmen would get to move up to half their movement, so certainly our erstwhile horsemen would be flanked now. Roll on the combat table again using goodness knows how many cavalry vs an unknown amount of footmen. Lather, rinse, repeat until the light foot inevitably breaks and runs barring some extremely lucky rolls.
3) Formations (p. 10)
Any good resources on when and how to use line, column, & square in a battle? We can certainly wing it to some extent and come up with our own strategies, but something to fall back on would be cool.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.
I stumbled upon this board awhile back when I started digging into prior editions of D&D for ways to enhance the 4e game I DM, and I must say that there are loads of interesting conversations going on here. Fun to read even though they're all about a game I've never played.
In the process of looking at various things OD&D a funny thing happened: I became enamored with Chainmail. Not even the fantasy rules supplement and all that D&D-like jazz, just pp. 1-24 + Appendix A of my shiny new PDF. So much so that I'm thinking about trying to play (using these guys as minis) in a couple weeks when my brother-in-law comes to town. My only problem is that my modern gaming mind (with absolutely no military miniatures experience) is having some trouble understanding how some parts of the game are supposed to work. I know most of you on here are D&Ders first and foremost, but any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Apologies in advance about the epic first post.
1) Fatigue (p. 11)
I'm probably just being too much of a fussbudget here, but the conditions that bring on fatigue seem way too specific in cases 2 & 3. Is charging between movement & melee required to bring on fatigue quickly? I could see an instance where some pikemen march for 4 turns and hastily set their pikes for an incoming charge. By the guidelines here, they wouldn't be fatigued until after 3 rounds of melee despite all that movement they just did.
I used the conditions as written and some simple algebra to come up with a numerical system that I'm considering using. It covers all 4 of the examples as well as any other possible combination of actions. Each unit earns fatigue points, and when their total >= 15 they become fatigued.
Movement - 3
Charging - 4
Melee - 5
It breaks down in some cases with the mythical Swiss/Landsknechte (Boy, they get a lot of love) and their ill-defined doubling rule, but I guess that's what happens when you try to apply math to something that wasn't based on math in the first place.
2) Melee (p. 14-16)
I'm really struggling with what melee looks like on the table. I can see how most of the individual pieces work, but when I try to throw it all together I make a hash of it. An example of something beyond the post-melee morale rules (which are actually fairly straightforward) would have been helpful.
- Rounds: Melee is referred to in rounds throughout, but it's never explicitly stated anywhere if the melee portion of the turn sequence is supposed to be as many rounds as it takes to resolve it, or if it's limited to one round per turn sequence? In other words, do two forces in melee keep fighting in the same turn until one side is killed or forced to retreat?
- Combatants: Who exactly is involved in a given melee? It states that one rank of soldiers fights (p. 15), but then goes on to add misc rule #3 (p. 16) where anyone within 3" can be pulled into a melee. On top of that, these extra participants can move up to 6" into the melee. I don't understand why they'd need to move 6" if they were only 3" away in the first place.
They mostly make sense if two similar formations are clashing on the battlefield because everything lines up well, but as an example what happens if a 2x5 column of medium cavalry charges an 11x2 line of light foot soldiers in an attempt to smash a hole right through the formation?
| H | H | ||||||
| H | H | ||||||
| H | H | ||||||
| H | H | ||||||
| H | H | ||||||
| F | F | F | F | F | F | F | F |
| F | F | F | F | F | F | F | F |
Using the first rank rule, only 2 cavalry could be brought to bear vs 3 foot soldiers? Or does the 3" rule imply that I could make it 6 cavalry vs 8 foot soldiers? Or does that interpretation violate the first rank rule, so it would be 2 cavalry vs 8 foot soldiers? And would those 8 foot soldiers be able to move up to 6" in order to flank the onrush of cavalry? You can see where I start to pull my hair out.
Regardless of what was used, let's say that only 2 foot soldiers fall and no cavalry die, leaving 10 cavalry & 20 foot. As a result, nobody retreats due to morale. We carry on to the next round of melee. The charging forces were not victorious in one round so they don't get to continue their charge (p. 15). Misc rule #4 states that a bunch of our uncovered footmen would get to move up to half their movement, so certainly our erstwhile horsemen would be flanked now. Roll on the combat table again using goodness knows how many cavalry vs an unknown amount of footmen. Lather, rinse, repeat until the light foot inevitably breaks and runs barring some extremely lucky rolls.
3) Formations (p. 10)
Any good resources on when and how to use line, column, & square in a battle? We can certainly wing it to some extent and come up with our own strategies, but something to fall back on would be cool.
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.
