Time to create magic items

[Finarvyn]

While re-reading Men & Magic last night, an odd thing occurred to me.

The rules talk about Wizards being able to create magic items, and they suggest both a gold piece cost and a time component. I always assumed they meant “game time” as in “okay, so three weeks pass and now you have your item.”

But last night I thought: “I’ll bet that is real time. If you play each week and a Wizard makes an item that takes three weeks to manufacture he might not get it until three game sessions later.” This would be a lot like a check-balance system where the Wizard character couldn’t simply mass-produce stuff as much because he would only work on one at a time and actual time can only pass so quickly.

How does anyone else play this?

[sham]

I like your interpretation best. As a referee, I never enjoyed running those long sessions of characters doing things in town for a few months. Using the "real time" method would assume that the Magic User in question is doing research and enchanting in his "spare time" outside of the actual game.

This would assume that each session ends with the MU back in town, or at least in a location where he is able to study and work (in other words, not in a dungeon).

After 30 years of D&D, I am ashamed to admit that I've NEVER had a character create a magic item. I have had them approach Wizard Schools and pay to have something made, though. No one ever asked or tried to do so. If they did I'd implement the "outside of game" method.

[coffee]

I'm pretty sure you're right, Fin. Here's the relevant section from Vol III:

TIME:
As the campaign goes into full swing it is probable that there will be various groups going every which way and all at different time periods. It is suggested that a record of each player be kept, the referee checking off each week as it is spent. Recon the passage of time thus:

Dungeon expedition 1 week
Wilderness adventure = 1 move = 1 day
1 Week of actual time = 1 week of game time

The time for dungeon adventures considers only preparations and a typical, one day descent into the pits.

The time for Wilderness expeditions would include days of rest and recuperation.

Actual time would not be counted off for players "out" on a Wilderness adventure, but it would for those newed in their dens, hideholes, keeps, castles, etc., as well as for those in the throes of some expedition in the underworld.

I imagine the Wizards to the the ones "newed in their dens" while they're crafting their magic items. And I'm sure that it was so they didn't flood the market with cheap magic items, which happens in 3e a lot (in my experience).

Magic should be rare; enforcing the time it takes to create permanent magic items keeps it that way.

Also note that it's "Wizards and above", and not just any Joe Spellslinger...

[ffilz]

When I started to re-read the rules, it was my assumption too that the game time also required real time.

I think it's relevant to note that in Garry's home campaign, he had many players, with plenty willing to play at the drop of a hat, so the real time cost could be a real cost. Other players would be happy to play while John Doe's wizard crafted a magic item. Of course John Doe probably had some freedom to play a 2nd character, which is just fine.

These days with small groups of players, these real time costs don't work so well. The players will tend to be willing to wait for the wizard player.

Frank

[makofan]

I'd probably just house rule that they miss x many adventures

[Finarvyn]

Mar 11, 2009 9:15:09 GMT -6 coffee said:

I'm pretty sure you're right, Fin. Here's the relevant section from Vol III
(snip)

Good catch, Coffee. Certainly this interpretation changes the way one thinks about the manufacture of magical items.

Oh, and Sham I've hardly ever used that rule in 30 years, either. Don't feel bad.

What I find interesting is that there are so many cool rules stuck in those tiny booklets, and each re-reading gives me new and different insights as to how the game might be played. Add that to the clearly stated fact that you were supposed to make up rules and customize the game, and you get one heckofa box of fun!

[RandallS]

Mar 11, 2009 12:41:18 GMT -6 ffilz said:

These days with small groups of players, these real time costs don't work so well. The players will tend to be willing to wait for the wizard player.

I never could make "real time" rules work even in the 1970s whn I had multiple large groups in the same campaign. I found it easier to setup a campaign calendar (CC) for the campaign world and just keep track f what day on the CC was for each group. If group 1 was on Maple 2 and group 2 was on Ash 7 (Ash being two months past April), even if they were in the same town in their sessions, they wouldn't run into each other. If someone in group 2 wanted to do something personal that took 2 months, the character could wait for their group to catch up or switch to another group available when they were done. Once things dropped to one group, players would usually just wait for busy characters. Three or four months would just go by as needed -- often in the time it took for the players to say what their characters did.

[invoker]

Mar 14, 2009 8:53:15 GMT -6 RandallS said:

I never could make "real time" rules work even in the 1970s whn I had multiple large groups in the same campaign. I found it easier to setup a campaign calendar (CC) for the campaign world and just keep track f what day on the CC was for each group.

This is a good idea and worked well for me to ~ even in 3.5e games I still use this method.