Post by mouser on Jul 11, 2024 12:16:41 GMT -6
I was doing some research and I contacted Lee Gold. She has PDF versions of the APA-L issues pertaining to Dungeons and Dragons. These issues are relevant to the history of OD&D and D&D and role-playing in general.
(APA-L stands for Amateur Press Association - LASFS, and the LASFS part means Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society.)
The first mention of D&D was in APA-L #493 (October 1974) by Mark A. Swanson. (Swanson's contributions were under the header of "Kyth Interstellar Bulletin"; it was Kyth Interstellar Bulletin #35 that was in the October 1974 APA-L collation.)
The PDF files of APA-L are available from Lee Gold. Her email address is lee.gold@ca.rr.com and she is happy to receive correspondence on this.
I have pasted an essay below that she wrote that outlines what is in each issue of APA-L. This way you can figure out what specific issue or issues you want before you contact her. This essay is posted here with permission from Lee Gold.
My understanding is that each PDF is $1 per issue, but check with Lee on that when you contact.
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APA-L & ROLEPLAYING
by Lee Gold lee.gold@ca.rr.com
The Wikipedia article on Alarums and Excursions at 8 AM, March 31st started "Alarums and Excursions (A&E) is an amateur press association started in June 1975 by Lee Gold (at the request of Bruce Pelz, who felt that discussion of Dungeons & Dragons was taking up too much space in APA-L, the APA of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society). It was the first publication to focus solely on role-playing games."
But I got my husband to fix it, and it now refers to "APA-L, the APA of Los Angeles's SF Fandom, usually collated at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society)."
I wasn't there when APA-L started on October 22, 1964; I didn't start attending LASFS until August 17, 1967. By then APA-F was dead, but APA-L was still going on. It stopped for awhile in 1968 at issue #180 — and during that sad time for awhile some of us contributed to APA Christmas aka APA-Noel (= No L) until that too died off. And then APA-L started again with issue #181, and it's still coming out today, every Thursday, even on Thanksgiving, even when LASFS itself didn't meet (for instance when martial law was declared in greater Los Angeles during the 1992 Los Angeles civil unrest, when it was collated in our home.
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What's an "Amateur Press Association"? There's a Wikipedia article at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_press_association. Fannish lore agrees that APAs started with amateur printers who wanted to show off their printers. Some SF fandom fanzine editors joined these APAs, like NAPA (the National Amateur Press Association), the first US APA, founded in 1876. Their contributions weren't nearly as beautifully printed as those of the printer hobbyists because their focus was on what they had to say and eventually they began to form their own APAs. The first SF fandom APA was FAPA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Amateur_Press_Association
An APA is headed by an editor or collator or some other officer who's responsible for putting together the individual contributions (zines) and sending them out to the contributors and/or subscribers. Some APAs elect this officer — who may therefore change from time to time. Some APAs have an owner/editor.
An APA may have a closed list of members or may be open to all contributors or may also be available to anyone who wants to purchase a copy.
An APA usually consists of
1) a cover showing the issue number and perhaps the date, perhaps an illustration
2) probably a table of contents, showing a list of individual contributions (zines) and authors
3) probably the APA's rules — what you have to do to get a copy
4) individual contributions (zines: short for "fanzines")
Apazines were sometimes printed on Ditto stencils and sometimes mimeographed. Dittoed zines tend to fade out over the years, especially if exposed to sunlight. Scanning a dittoed zine (usually purple print) on colored paper is especially difficult.
An apazine usually consists of
1) a title
2) the author's name or pseudonym and contact information (maybe a snailmail address, after the Internet was established maybe an email address, after the Web was established maybe a URL)
3) perhaps one or more short or long essays
4) perhaps artwork
5) perhaps one or more poems or songs
6) usually comments on the previous issue, each one probably titled with the name or zine title of the person being addressed — think of this as the equivalent of the "letters to the editor section" in a standard magazine. This section is the heart of the apazine. The first thing a contributor usually does when he or she gets a new issue of an APA is to read it looking for comments on his or her previous zine. Inside a paragraph addressed to a person, comments on different topics may be separated by slashes (//) or other typographical symbols. APA-L tradition includes Fuzzy Niven's Law: "You have to give comments to get comments." Remarks that elicit comments are "comment hooks."
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Roleplaying in LASFSian Fandom
The first Roleplaying Game that LASFS fans encountered wasn't D&D; it was Dynasty: a large red can with a cloth map and plastic soldiers and a lot of beautiful wooden pieces — eight booklets that all looked alike until you opened them up and found out if you'd gotten the Emperor; the Official, Gentry/Landholder; Scholar; Silk Peasant; Rice Peasant; Wheat Peasant, or the Warlord. It came out in 1969. boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9363/dynasty
We also played Revenge!, a board game created by LASFSian Jack Harnesss, somewhat like Monopoly but 50% wider than Monopoly, with planets rather than street territories. There were teleports (and power stations needed to get them running). Pournelle's Point that sent you down to the Black Hole if you landed on it. The Torture Chamber. Three Dueling Planets (where you could fight Risk-style duels with Armies you picked up in various ways). After you died, you reincarnated as one of five mythic characters: Vulchurella (the Torturer's Ugly Daughter), Prince Putrid (the lawful ruler, who'd been usurped), Pastor Fazool (a bribe-loving man of religion who could provide immunity from various threats), the Green Slime (who temporarily poisoned the square he was on — and the previous square he'd been on), and the Emperor, who unlike the other characters didn't move: he just rolled the dice and moved — or threatened to move — other pieces, and had to get $300 more each turn or he'd die. I've still got the (very complex) rules around somewhere. And now you can find them at www.conchord.org/revenge/.
Meanwhile in Minneapolis, in 1974, fans were playing DUNGEON: see playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html (posted by Jon Peterson):
"One of the perennial questions about the history of role-playing games is this: which came second, Tunnels & Trolls or Empire of the Petal Throne? Deciding between the two is largely a question of semantics, of whether you count various small-run amateur publications as releases or not. Fortunately, historians don't need to choose between the two, because Craig VanGrasstek's Rules to the Game of Dungeon (1974) beat them both handily. Weighing in at eighteen pages, and released late in the summer of 1974, Rules to the Game of Dungeon seems certain to be the second published role-playing game.
"The great irony of VanGrasstek's Dungeon is that he was unaware of Dungeons & Dragons when he produced it, due to an almost incredible chain of events. In February of 1974, a Minneapolis science-fiction fan named Louis Fallert (better known as Blue Petal) began running a game called "Castle Keep" which he based on his experiences playing in dungeon adventures with the MMSA [the Minnesota Military Simulation Association - LG] (Fallert wrote a blurb about this for Alarums & Excursions #3). While it seems that Fallert himself was vaguely aware of Dungeons & Dragons, he presented "Castle Keep" to local science-fiction fans in such a way that many took it to be a game of his own invention. Much as Gygax adventured in Blackmoor with Arneson and then largely implemented his own rules from his experience, so did Fallert build a system for dungeoneering that followed his own subjective impressions as a player.
"These 'Castle Keep' games became quite popular in Minneapolis in 1974, as contemporary issues of the local fanzine, Minneapa, document, and many local fans developed their own dungeons, largely unaware of the existence of Dungeons & Dragons. Craig VanGrasstek played in the first incarnation of Castle Keep,' and later ran a dungeon; as the Foreword to his rules observes, there were nine total dungeons based on 'Castle Keep' in Minneapolis by the summer. VanGrasstek recognized that there was little standardization among the rules of these dungeons, but he nonetheless hoped to write up an account of the game that would let people outside Minneapolis share in the fun. He therefore created fifty copies for distribution at the World Science Fiction Convention at the end of August 1974, and circulated his rules through Minneapa.
"Once he started publicizing his rules, others were quick to point out the existence of Dungeons & Dragons, and thus Rules of the Game of Dungeon quickly fell into obscurity. The Minneapolis Dungeon tradition it preserves did however influence a generation of dungeoneers who began playing in 1974. Glenn Blacow, later a very prominent early player and dungeon master in Boston, first learned the game from the Minneapolis Dungeon before he ever saw a true copy of Dungeons & Dragons. [Glenn Blacow later contributed to A&E and aided Mark Swanson in putting out The Wild Hunt. -- LG]
"Fallert clearly was not trying to rip off TSR, and neither was VanGrasstek - neither profited from this venture. Both were simply sharing a pastime they enjoyed, in a manner that is well in keeping with the practices of science-fiction fandom. VanGrasstek only inadvertently released a game that competed with Dungeons & Dragons; it would not be until 1975 that other authors would intentionally try to market simpler and cheaper alternatives. In fact, it is likely that by preserving the game as he did, VanGrasstek did historians a great favor. There are certain elements of his Rules that resemble accounts of the original Blackmoor system, and it seems likely that Fallert informally preserved some Twin Cities practices for play that did not end up in the final drafts of Dungeons & Dragons. Thanks to VanGrasstek, we have a unique window into strongly reagent-based magic systems, mitigation-based armor and much less formal dicing mechanics."
LASFSians heard about this game from friends who'd lived in Minneapolis (like Matthew Tepper) or who participated in MinneAPA (like Tom Digby).
See file770.com/?p=16051 and www.unreason.com/files/RulesToTheGameOfDungeon.pdf
APA-LS WITH ROLEPLAYING GAME DISCUSSION
APA-L #493 (October 24, 1974):
Mark Swanson
APA-L #494 (October 31, 1974):
June Moffatt (commenting on Mark Swanson)
Matthew Tepper (commenting on Mark Swanson to say that "Dungeon" has been "a major craze in Minneapolis fandom...."
Lee Gold (commenting on Mark Swanson)
APA-L #495
Tom Digby commented to Haplography (Lee Gold) in #494 that "Minneapolis Fandom has been playing...a game called Dungeon...."
Matthew Tepper commented to Len and June Moffatt in #494 about "the Dungeon game."
APA-L #496
Matthew Tepper commented to Tom Digby, "I recall Dick Tatge consulting a copy of the 'Dungeons and Dragons' rulebook at the Hobbitat Dungeon games...which means that the Minnesota fans probably derive their versions (which differ from player to player) from that book."
APA-L #497
Mark Swanson seems to have a D&D writeup.
APA-L #499
Ted Johnstone's comments about a sword cane aren't about a D&D weapon. He himself owned a sword cane. He comments on Mark Swanson's writeup, saying that "The game sounds fascinating."
APA-L #501
Lee Gold chronicles a visit to San Francisco when she observed a group playing D&D — and says "Barry may be getting hooked by that game."
APA-L #502
Lee Gold describes a Revenge! game.
APA-L #503
Mark Swanson discusses D&D — "random gamemasters."
APA-L #504
Mark Swanson says he may run a D&D game when he visits LA at the end of March.
APA-L #505
Mark Swanson mentions D&D
Lee Gold comments to Mark Swanson about Xeroxing his copy of D&D, buying "those weird dice."
APA-L #508
Lee Gold reports that the Hannifens visited Los Angeles and ran a D&D game for her and Barry, and left them two xeroxes of the rules ("one for us and one for LASFS"). There's a three-page write-up of the game.
Alan Frisbie writes about Revenge going around NCR.
Barry Gold writes about revising Revenge.
APA-L #509
June Moffatt commented to Lee Gold that she'd love to see the D&D rules: "sounds like any one of the games makes a good adventure story."
Lee Gold mentioned more Revenge revisions.
Matthew Tepper commented "Fascinated to see that Dungeons and Dragons has caught on in LA at last. It took Minneapolis by storm months ago, and the gaming fascinated me to the extent that I was down at the Hobbitat a lot to learn the ropes.
Fred Patten commented that the description of the D&D game was fascinating but he couldn't visualize the rules that could result in such moves.
Neeters and Glenn Mitchell discuss a wooden Revenge board and want to know when they can try D&D.
Bjo Trimble says she'd like to try D&D someday.
Barry announces a REVENGE! party.
Larry Nielson said "Dungeons and Dragons sounds like fun."
APA-L #510
Matthew Tepper commented to Lee Gold about his first game of D&D and offered advice on how to improve things.
Alan Frisbie commented to Jack Harness about Revenge.
Lee Gold ran "Dungeons and Dragons notes" to various people and announced a March 9th D&D game. She also wrote up a D&D game she DMed (one page).
Dan Goodman reported to Matthew Tepper that D&D was catching on in LA — and irritating the card players at the 4th Sunday game.
Ted Johnstone commented to Lee Gold that he was faunching for a copy of D&D. "What drove me to frustration in your narrative of the brief practice game with the Hannifens was the lack of indication at decision points whether something was pre-established, decided by dice, calculated from impinging factors, or made up on the spot. I understand that the parameters on this game make it possibly a new order of Game....I have hundreds of questions...."
APA-L #511
Bruce Pelz commented on the growing number of D&D players at Fourth Sunday Parties.
Bjo Trimble commented, "Dungeons and Dragons sounds so complicated, I don't know if I'd ever catch on."
Ted Johnstone reported that he'd gotten the D&D rules and spends a page discussing them and plans for playing in Lee Gold's dungeon, plans for designing his own dungeon.
Paula Lieberman (Noises) commented to Matthew Tepper about D&D in the NESFA area.
Lee Gold commented about D&D to June Moffatt and to Ted Johnstone.
June Moffatt commented to Ted Johnstone (Tedron), "We were telling Rick Sneary about the D&D game, and he expressed interest. Wonder if we can ever manage to get him to one."
Dian Crayne commented to Lee Gold, "Dungeons and Dragons does sound like fun."
John Hertz commented to Lee Gold, "It's really amusing to see how well whoever thought up D&D has systematized the important elements of Adventures. Maybe after we get used to D&D we can think up an expanded version that would not be confined to indoors....In a real adventure, you can't just go home. You have to get back...."
Jack Harness wrote D&D comments on a game he'd observed that Lee Gold had DMed and announced he intended to design his own dungeon.
Mark Swanson described GORREE Dungeon. He added, "If D&D gets going, every effort should be made to make sure the games are compatible and that everyone accepts each others ranks...." He commented to Dick Eney about someday putting in a court to try characters for genocide. He told Jack Harness that he'd appreciate information on Objectivist Mutated Mouse Musicians because he'd put them in his dungeon. He commented to Lee Gold about the problems of selling REVENGE!
APA-L #512
June Moffatt told Bruce Pelz (Brucifer) "there's no required players in D&D." She asked Ted Johnstone (Tedron) to "re-codify the rules of D&D" and comments on the cost of garlic on the shopping list. She commented to Lee about mapping.
Jack Harness commented to Mark Swanson about Dungeon monsters.
Matthew Tepper commented to Lee Gold about a possible CRT dungeon with wandering dragons a la various CRT games in pinball parlors.
Tom Digby commented to Lee Gold (Haplography) about making a jigsaw puzzle of her dungeon map, revealing it as doors are opened. He also imagined futuristic Dungeon vending machines for personae, descents, maps, etc.
Ted Johnstone did a game writeup.
Lee Gold announced the upcoming D&D party— and said the Hannifens would be coming, so there'd be two dungeons. She told Bruce Pelz you only need two people to play D&D: a DM and a player.
Mark Swanson wrote more stuff about his dungeon, using miniatures, and also mentioned The American Wargamer.
The BoskONE SHOT (page 2) had Lee Gold's note that she and Barry had been playing D&D in Mark Swanson's dungeon. // Mark Swanson says an impromptu D&D demo is being given to APA-Ler Tom Collins.
APA-L #513
Tom Digby's title referred to Pro "Dungeon" teams playing it as a spectator sport — and went on to discuss Minneapolis fans' interest in the game and the relations of D&D and Dungeon. He also mentioned "Dungeon songs" like "Listen to the Rhythm of the Raging Rats" and "You kill sixteen orcs and whaddya get?" He then pondered other ideas concerning D&D for two pages. He commented to Jack Harness (Gallstone) about dungeon creatures who played games (like dominoes).
Ted Johnstone related his first dungeon expedition (2.5 pages). He says "It's a hell of a game. It is, as I suspected, a new order, a new dimension, of game. I am reliably assured that...Lee's Dungeon is only a simple beginner's effort." He also considered D&Doid rules for Mission Impossible. He told John Hertz "There already is a surface game similar to D&D...." He worried about Mark Swanson's dungeon's high mortality rate (six out of 17).
Barry Gold told Bjo Trimble that D&D didn't involve players taking turns; the "party leader" might "play" a new player's character till the player got more experience.
Jack Harness did a couple of writeups.
Lee Gold briefly mentioned a couple of dungeon trips at Boskone and more at Dave's (Ted Johnstone's) home — and a run back in Los Angeles with the Hannifens touring Lee's Neo dungeon, and finally the Sunday Thing with three dungeons: Lee's, the Hannifens', and a CalTech dungeon (which Lee described as "Fairy D&D" a la "Fairy Chess" or "Dungeons and Beavers"). She told Bjo Trimble that D&D wasn't complicated to play. She told John Hertz he seemed to have independently thought up Wilderness. She told Mark Swanson she was looking forward to seeing him and his dungeon. She commented to Jack Harness about D&D stats of OMMMusicians.
Mark Swanson told Lee Gold "You people are hard on dungeons."
APA-L #514
Lee Gold commented to Tom Digby on awarding Experience Pts, Hit Dice, Dungeon (as played in Minneapolis). She commented to June Moffatt about Animals as D&D monsters. She commented to Ted Johnstone that the rocs in her dungeon had been recently fed. She commented to Jack Harness about some details he'd forgotten — and about the new dungeon she was planning. And she wrote a D&Desque "Cover Story." (two pages)
Vixen Fox said she was enjoying the Dungeon talk though she couldn't picture the game being played.
John Hertz (zine title "What Can A Thetan Think") commented on a "Thinkless Thetan" as a Dungeon monster.
Mark Swanson had a section titled "Jargon and Dungeons" with comments about D&D to Jack Harness, Bruce Pelz, Tom Digby, Ted Johnstone, John Hertz. He told Bill Warren that Russell Seitz was a 5th level Monster and he told Ted Johnstone: "Most casualties have been due to stupidity.... Walls have gold stripes. Barbarian bites wall. Barbarian finds mouth full of gold foil and green slime."
Ted Johnstone had an essay about the setting of his new dungeon and perhaps a new PC. He also mentioned an improved system for referring to characters who would be kept on 3x5 or 5x8 cards: "a third class Fighter is F3" and dice (two standard cubes are 2D6). He offered the still timely advice, "If you want to participate, you have to say so" and discussed a GP's buying power. He told Jack Harness he had Mutated Mice in his dungeon too.
Dan Goodman suggested a D&D dungeon which at some point required players to play Dungeon, during which at some point they had to play D&D, during which.... He commented to Lee Gold that he wouldn't object to barring games but does object to barring just D&D but not card games.
Jack Harness did corrigenda and continued his writeup (including having to roll to save after making horrible puns).
Tom Digby had a very short story about dying in a car accident and waking up in an armchair with the GM saying, "Sorry your character got killed like that." He told Ted Johnstone he could do a story about a world with a computerized D&D-like game in which people or nations would settle insults by D&D0-oid duels or wars and one's real world social standing might depend on one's success in the Game.
Barry Gold mentioned a recent expedition that Lee & Barry jointly DMed (for the first time).
APA-L #515
Ted Johnstone explained "hit dice" to Tom Digby. He commented to June Moffatt about D&D stuff.
Harrison Rose mentioned miniatures for sale and asked how long spells last. He seems to have been a CalTech D&Der.
Dick Eney commented to Lee and Barry that he'd like to get into a D&D game.
June Moffatt asked Mark Swanson why the Barbarian bit the wall. She asked Tedron (Ted Johnstone) if he was implying there were sea creatures and merpeople in the lower parts of his dungeon and various other questions about what he'd implied. She asked Jxtn (Jack Harness) what powered his dungeon's elevator and how low it went.
Tom Digby commented to Mark Swanson (Kyth Interstellar Bul) and Ted Johnston (B-Roll Neg) about their D&D comments.
Jack Harness did a expedition writeup (two pages).
Mark Swanson mentions D&D but says he's going to try to keep his APA-Lzine from being "another D&D zine." He comments to Matthew Bruce Tepper about a character who's literally chicken: a fighting cock. He comments to Ted Johnstone about monsters who can't be low level. He comments to Jack Harness about OMMMusicians.
Lee Gold told John Hertz that "D&D is sufficiently complex...that people into it frequently speak of other realities in terms of D&D concepts...." She also had D&D comments on the "Cover Sotyr" (sic). She advised Swanson he might want to put in a protection against "bullies" who attack those over two levels lower. She told Tedron (Ted Johnstone) that Swanson gave bonus experience to characters with initiative. She commented about D&D to Jack Harness. She commented on Tom Digby's idea of fighting duels in a D&D dungeon by saying it would be random, determined by dice, not skill. She contributed a new monster: the Marshwiggle (from C. S. Lewis).
APA-L #516
Lee Gold said she's giving riddles to sphinxes in her dungeons. She told Dick Eney that playing Dynasty had taught people cooperation and reminisced about some old games. She told June Moffatt about her dungeon elevator (powered by large squirrels). She commented to Harrison about D&D. She said she'd put a new wing onto the dungeon.
Tom Digby commented on DMs who don't understand gays and lesbians and other issues of more emotional interest to the character than the player.
Ted Johnstone made D&D comments on Lee Gold's cover story in #514. He made D&D comments to Mark Swanson and to Jack Harness .
Mark Swanson explained why the Barbarian bit the gold wall. He told Dan Goodman he hadn't managed to kill anyone yet "though if last night's group hadn't brought along 'Hold Portal....'" He wrote up Kzinti as D&D Monsters.
Dan Goodman told Lee Gold at least two people objected to having people play Revenge, Perquacky, Oh Hell, and other games — and perhaps all games should be banned.
APA-L #517
Dave Fox commented on installing Khorlian creatures in a dungeon. www.kayshapero.net/Khorlia/khorlia.html
Tom Digby made a D&D-related comment to June Moffatt (De Jueves).
Ted Johnstone commented to Dick Eney about Balrogs in the D&D rules. He told Tom Digby about how visitors might travel to his dungeon or might just skip that step. He commented to Mark Swanson somewhat acerbically about what levels of PCs would be admitted to his dungeon.
June Moffatt asked Lee Gold if there was a chance of holding a D&D game in the LASFS Library while Phantom of the Paradise was being shown in the main room because she'd like to play more D&D. She also discussed Lee's squirrel-powered dungeon elevator and a "char service that goes about with a flamethrower."
Lee Gold had an elliptical D&D comment to Matthew Tepper about "how Schmutzig got the clap." She told Tedron (Ted Johnstone) to revise the Cover Story distance to a mere "ten hexes." She asked Mark Swanson for more details on Kzinti as Monsters. There's a D&D writeup: half a page, to be continued.
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone that he'd scattered kryptonite in his dungeon to affect "super-characters." He also discussed Hold Person vs Charm Person.
Paula Lieberman commented to Mark Swanson about the Barbarian who bit the wall and other D&D bits.
APA-L #518
Ted Johnstone described Frankenstein's Monster in D&D terms to Lee Gold.
June Moffatt commented to Tom Digby about Kim Kinnison's Intelligence in D&Doid terms and continued the discussion of what happened to Dungeon Water.
Tom Digby told Ted Johnstone (B Roll Negative) that each dungeon seemed to be in its own world with different physical laws. He told Lee Gold that while the Kzin was a worthy foe for some dungeon parties, the Thrint would be better for others.
Lee Gold commented to Digby about monster urine & dung. She commented to June Moffatt about the squirrel-powered elevator and other D&D topics. She commented to Mark Swanson about various spells. She continued the Hannifen dungeon trip writeup.
John Hertz chronicled his first dungeon expedition. He thought there was "a lot of talking."
APA-L #519
Barry Gold reported a trip to San Francisco with a visit to Hilda's dungeon and an overland trip on a Jerry Jacks map.
Lee Gold commented to Dick Eney about Dynasty. She commented to Ted Johnstone about D&D topics. She commented to Craig Miller about putting phantoms and spirits into the "monster canon." She ran notes on Snarks and Boojums, with comments on what CalTech said about them. She commented to John Hertz about "D&D noise." She continued her writeup.
June Moffatt had a D&D comment to Tom Digby about weapons. She asked Lee about Lee's escalator.
Tom Digby continued the discussion on dungeon use of water — and said Dungeon worlds might not have "the same physical laws ours does" and then discussed phlogiston.
Ted Johnstone commented to Lee Gold, objecting in principle to limiting spells (anymore than limiting sword swings). "The point of the game is not to kill off the tourists but to give them an exciting ride....Maybe our interpretations of the Game are beginning to drift apart. I would certainly avoid Swanson's Dungeon because of the vindictive air I feel in his constructions....But this discussion actually belongs in some kind of D&D letter exchange. I have a few ideas of my own for expansion of concepts." He told Tom Digby that he objected to a DM "telling a player how hiser character will react."
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone that MIT gamers frequently insisted that people had to bring in new D&D characters. He gave Lee Gold details on Kzin as monsters.
APA-L #520
Lee Gold said that they'd had the first and last Fourth Sunday Party to have a D&D game. "A small party cannot well survive having twelve people closet themselves away for six hours." She told June Moffatt about the dungeon escalator powered by electric eels, which also powered a mimeograph on a fifth floor one-shot party. She continued the D&D writeup. She discussed D&D with Tedron (Ted Johnstone), including not letting magic users dominate the game.
John Hertz told Tom Digby he wouldn't want to meet a thrint in a dungeon. "Present dungeoneering is based on a bash-oriented model of fighting." He told the Moffatts "It seems that D&D games can get held up by all the needed dice throwing." His comment to Lee Gold seems to be asking for miniatures.
June Moffatt asked Barry Gold about the rank of his character Donna (could a rabbi really be a bishop?) and what was a "bag of holding." She continued the discussion of dungeon dung in a comment to Lee Gold and also asked some questions.
Ted Johnstone reported on a D&D expedition he'd participated in by telephone. Two page writeup and then some D&D ideas. He told Dave Fox how he's developing his dungeon. He commented to Mark Swanson about the Rules (on spells).
Virginia Bauer wrote a zine about D&Ding.
Tom Digby asked Ted Johnstone whether one could withdraw from a game in protest without having the DM declare the character dead.
Tom Locke asked Lee Gold if the elevator squirrels ever pooped out while hoisting a heavy load.
There's a flyer for Aero Hobbies (a gaming store).
Mark Swanson told Lee Gold and Jack Harness he was sending "some materials on D&D." He mentioned the AWA [American Wargaming Association] and Greyhawk.
APA-L #521
Marc Schirmeister's cover depicted monsters playing "fandom's latest game sensation": "Basements and Iguanas"
Jack Harness published his filksong, "Music to Loot Dungeons By." Also a verse to "Eating Crottled Greeps." And an invitation to various characters to come to his new dungeon. He also commented on the Rule Books (as "complex, cumbersome, inclusive...but the playacting is fun"), and mentioned Bruce Pelz's shock "when I decided to play D&D instead of Hell." He mentioned the "All [Ed] Green Expedition.
June Moffatt corrected Lee Gold on D&Ding at 4th Sunday Parties. She told Tedron (Ted Johnstone) that she'd seen slight but interesting differences between his account and Lee Gold's account of the game.
Ted Johnstone told Barry Gold about his newly outfitted party of seven. He commented to June Moffatt about firearms in a dungeon; he'd just done a "V.C. [Viet Cong?] emplantment." He went on to give details on rifles, shotguns, pistols, etc. He told Tom Digby he loved his idea of dragons getting phlogiston from their food. He commented to himself (and to Lee, Mark Swanson, and other GMs) that after talking it over with Lee he now accepted the concept of some limit on spell-casting energy. He told Mark Swanson that a dungeon that only accepted "novices" would quickly get boring for players though it could be useful for training novices and thinning the ranks of incompetents.
Hilda Hannifen wrote up several adventures in several dungeons. Two pages.
John Hertz complimented Ted Johnstone on his narrative style which made his D&D adventures good reading.
Lee Gold told Dick Eney some details about her dungeon. She mentioned "a D&D APA (as yet unnamed)" to Bjo Trimble. She announced "From now on our D&D parties will ALWAYS be Wednesday nights." She announced the D&D Eclipsecon on Memorial Day weekend. She commented to John Hertz on "immolate", telepathy, Thrints, electronic dice, markers (miniatures). She commented to June Moffatt about bags of holding. She commented to Tom Locke about the squirrels who powered her dungeon elevator.
Fred Patten asked Lee Gold what would happen if the elevator broke and marooned your team in the dungeon
Mark Swanson chatted with Lee Gold about D&D stuff.
Another flyer from Aero Hobbies
APA-L #522
A cover drawn by Boston fan Glenn F. Blacow shows three characters going off toward a dungeon.
John Hertz tells Ted Johnstone that it seems reasonable that magic users should use up spell points and get tired just as fighters do. He comments to Lee Gold in terms of Significance to Mass ratio.
There's a zine from Gary Switzer, owner of Aero Hobbies — about what he's got for sale and about his own dungeon.
Matthew Tepper told Hilda Hannifen he hoped he could contribute a few characters "to act as dungeon fodder" but had nobody over First Level. He said one of the most interesting things about the game was the mixture of seriousness and funny. He told Mark Swanson that he hoped his character managed to have the ring removed — or perhaps learn the language of Two-Headed Duckish..
Lee Gold corrected Jack Harness as to when he first saw the D&D rules. She explained to June Moffatt that Ted Johnstone had gotten his information on what was going on in the dungeon expedition from Barry, not from her. She told Hilda Hannifen that she made D&D sound like more fun and less "rule-bookkeeping" than Jack Harness did. She told Fred Patten that so far her elevator was reliable, but if it ever broke, it would be good to have flying potion. She told Tom Locke that Neocarn (her dungeon) was set "in the dark ages of the 2300s." She commented to Mark Swanson about the difficulty of seeing everyone as a two-headed duck and told him that Angelenos now had Greyhawk and discussed. She commented to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) about half-elves (and a half-elf - half-orc) and his regeneration rules.
June Moffatt told Hilda Hannifen she didn't believe in a Neutral Orc.
Ted Johnstone wrote about factors that "overwhelm the character's volition" and objected to the referee who overwhelmed your character's attitude, intentions...." He went on to nitpick Detect Evil detecting phosphates and said he'd done more surface area around his dungeon. He told John Hertz about Telepathy and ESP in D&D — and about the variety of dice throwing. He told June Moffatt about the "cleanup crew" and said that the best use of "modern weaponry" in a dungeon was to encourage poor DMs to mishandle it and "screw themselves."
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup (three pages).
Barry Gold did an adventure writeup (half a page).
Virginia Bauer told Gail [Selinger?] and Kara [Schnatmeier? Dalkey?] that their dungeon was neat. She admired Ted Johnstone for playing D&D by phone.
M. J. Galloway also commented to Gail and Kara about their dungeon. He described one of his characters.
Eclipsecon was a Get Together at Lee & Barry Golds' rented house over a weekend, which also had a lunar eclipse. Their home (Brandyhall) had a living room plus dining area (over 20 feet long) with a couch long enough to seat four, a den with two small couches, a small bedroom with a twin bed, a master bedroom, and a patio with a second refrigerator, but only one bathroom.
APA-L #523
Mark Swanson told Lee Gold a D&D anecdote. He told Ted Johnstone "I am a supporter of the slogan 'D&D is too important to leave to Gary Gygax'" and went on to explain how the original rules handled spells and discuss other D&D matters. He told Dick Eney about an upcoming wargaming convention in Baltimore which Gygax would be attending and DMing at and which he also planned to attend and DM at. He told Virginia Bauer how many players (six) he liked in a party and made other D&D comments to her. He commented to Tom Digby about how firearms worked in his dungeon. He also commented to "Me" about D&D matters. He mentioned Robert Sacks' attempt to have items for Clerics that would help them the same way magic swords helped fighters and magic items helped magic users.
Ted Johnstone commented on several D&D points to Mark Swanson. He also discussed his dungeon. He applauded Harness's song.
Lee Gold wrote, "We have named the D&D-zine ALARUMS AND EXCURSIONS...I have lifted some material from APA-L so that Swanson, Digby, Harness, and Tedron [Ted Johnstone] will be contributors to the firstish which will be appearing June 22nd" and added more details. She told various APA-Lers to see her comments on their zines in A&E.
Snail Express (Larry Nielson?) told Lee Gold that Isaac Bonewits' REAL MAGIC had some things that might be handy in D&D. He asked June Moffatt about a noisy party that drew a monster that metabolized magic to stabilize something that would otherwise explode. Even if such a monster was trying to kill you, should you kill it and maybe get killed yourself?
Paula Lieberman told Mark Schirmeister that his cover for #521 showed characters too mundane to be in a dungeon. She asked Jack Harness how his dungeon compared with Mark Swanson — and said she'd run in Mark's dungeon recently. And later she chronicled her run in Mark's dungeon at the (MIT) Strategic Games Society (1.5 pages).
Gary Switzer of Aero Hobbies wrote about a "big rule change meeting" and the effects of Greyhawk. He praised Hilda Hannnifen's story and listed what his shop had for sale.
Hilda Hannifen commented to Mark Swanson and to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) about D&D stuff. She also commented to Barry Gold about Maundering Wonsters and to Gary Switzer about his Hit Chart and Trip Chart.
Barry Gold reminisced about the weekend: the start of D&D Eclipsecon including a trip to Tommy's.
John Hertz said he'd be sorry if all the D&D talk left APA-L for A&E.
Lee Gold described Eclipsecon: Disneyland (and singing during the canoe ride) and several D&D games, with Ted Johnstone participating by telephone. She commented to Mark Swanson about D&D stuff.
Dan Goodman wrote Lee: "I hope Gary Gygax will be considered a special case freebie contributor [to A&E]."
Mark Swanson told Paula Lieberman her idea was good enough to get into his dungeon. He complimented Jack Harness' song and said he wanted to hear about the all-GREEN expedition. And then he told a story about a DM who hinted he wanted to wind up a game but eventually ended it with a massacre so he could go out to dinner with friends. He commented to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) and Hilda Hannifen and Gary Switzer about D&D stuff. He commented to Lee Gold about Gandalf's level as a magic user. He commented to Dan Goodman about cursed rings.
APA-L #525
Jack Harness's cover depicted the entrance to his dungeon
Ted Johnstone wrote up his telephone participation in a D&D game (2.5 pages). He said that his further writeups would appear in A&E. He praised Glenn F. Blacow's cover for #522. He told Gary Switzer he expected to see him in A&E and commented on other issues. "Telling stories for drinks in a bar seems like a hell of a comedown for an M23 Elf with a million and a half ExPts...." He told Virginia Bauer that in D&D "solutions are much more direct and uncomplicated. It is a gratifying escape from the frustrations of the real world." He commented to Mark Swanson about rolling up characters. He tells June Moffatt about the clean-up crew.
Hilda Hannifen chronicles Eclipsecon. She notes we missed the (lunar) eclipse due to the fog. Our home was a couple of miles from the beach (a couple of miles north from our current home). We visited Aero Hobbies and she bought Greyhawk and "loads of characters." We also played Revenge!
Snail Express suggested that D&D needed a system of awarding EP in which each character asymptotically approached godhood — and asked "Have you tried giving monsters Experience Points too?"
Lee Gold reported that Barry spent the Writer's Workshop working on his D&D zine for A&E. Sunday morning she produced A&E #1 ("over thirty pages of D&Dzines"). She told Dan Goodman that they'd be sending two copies of A&E to TSR.
Mark Swanson commented to Ted Johnstone about D&D stuff. He told Paula Lieberman she'd written the "least organized" D&D report he'd ever seen but all the facts were there. He told Hilda Hannifen "The point of the limit on racial types" was to "restrict the number of non-human characters. Crossbreeds will tend to take over the game if they automatically get all the good parts from both parents."
Gail Selinger thanked Lee Gold "for the dungeon trip by phone....Thank goodness for toll free numbers. I missed Barry's lemonade."
APA-L #526
June Moffatt wrote Tedron (Ted Johnstone) to marvel at a D&D expedition that only took an hour and 15 minutes plus other D&D-related comments.
Lee Gold wrote Mark Swanson that she had sometimes sent a party a neutral elf or orc as a Native Guide who told them where things were in exchange for gold.
Tom Digby wrote Mark Swanson about inheritance of traits among halfbreeds.
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup. She also made D&Dish comments to Mark Swanson and June Moffatt. She asked Gary Switzer to contribute his "serious type discussions of D&D" to A&E because she was terrible about saving and indexing APA-L. She asked Paula Lieberman to write her D&D adventures in more detail.
Fred Patten told B Roll Negative (Ted Johnstone) that on the whole he'd be glad to see D&D move out of APA-L.
Dick Eney told Mark Swanson that he'd try to see him in Baltimore and would love to make an dungeon expedition.
Alan Frisbie commented about alternate versions of D&D.
Jack Harness wrote an essay on "Handicapping the Races" and an adventure writeup.
Ted Johnstone gave the name of his A&Ezine. He told Mark Swanson he had a dungeon room with a giant plant that grows back nearly as fast as it's cut.
APA-L #527
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup (a little over a page). She discussed D&D stuff with Mark Swanson. She said "miniatures are coming into general use" but the marching order lineup was only changed for special occasions.
Mark Swanson said his dungeon comments would keep going into APA-L on separate pages so they could also go into A&E. He thought D&D was better "when the mechanics are kept hidden." He told Lee he had possibly acquired some new contributors to A&E. This is followed by his A&Ezine (one page).
Virginia Bauer told Ted Johnstone and Mark Swanson they'd had great suggestions for dungeons. She told Lee Gold she'd enjoyed reading A&E.
Mike Galloway compared dungeons in different regions.
Jack Harness recommended that Dikini (Dick Eney) try attending Origins. He told him that Larry Niven had tried "the Game" and was "bored to tears."
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone that Robert Sacks was contributing to A&E.
APA-L #528
Dick Eney said that Lee Gold, Hilda Hannifen, and Ted Johnstone dropped by, and he finally got a chance to play D&D. "It was as interesting as they'd made it sound....Lee works to a rule of not over 10 per party...." (five page writeup)
Ted Johnstone wrote up Lee's and Hilda's visit and the excursion to DC and the D&Ding.
Hilda Hannifen wrote up an adventure.
Lee Gold briefly mentioned the trip East to visit Ted Johnstone and Dick Eney. She told Matthew Tepper and John Hertz that A&E #1 was nearly sold out and announced the deadline for A&E #2.
Mark Swanson commented to Hilda Hannifen on Fornholt's special ability.
APA-L #529
John Hertz said he'd paid for A&E #1.
Dick Eney asked Hilda Hannifen about "the languages in dungeons," wondering if Mule was a dialect of Equine, incomprehensible to Felines but quite intelligible to Pegasi.
Bruce Pelz explained that he'd dropped out of APA-L because "that Dungeons and Dragons crud bores me to extremes and it was impossible to read through APA-L for comments without plowing through pages and pages of the aforesaid crud. It still is."
Fred Patten told Dick Eney that "D&D writeups like this are almost as much fun as good sword and sorcery stories."
Lee Gold told Dick Eney she didn't have "a scaled down dungeon for neos. It is merely that some other people have a scaled up dungeon for experienced characters." She commented to Tom Collins on D&D questions he'd asked.
Virginia Bauer told Ted Johnstone that his writeups read like mini-novels.
June Moffatt told Dikini (Dick Eney) that she enjoyed reading about D&D. "Lots more than playing it." She went on to comment on his Fox Spirit.
APA-L #530
Ted Johnstone commented to Mark Swanson about D&D stuff. He commented to June Moffatt about how the Wizard Telco had helped him teleport into dungeon expeditions. He commented to Hilda Hannifen about Greyhawk and the upcoming Blackmoor. Later on he told Hilda Hannifen that he'd started painting the miniatures she'd given him.
Lee Gold reported that she'd sold off most of her A&Es at Westercon and played some good D&D games. She told John Hertz that Dan Goodman had finally told her that he'd received Hertz's money to give her and asked if he wanted A&E #1 or a later issue. She commented to Dick Eney on how much Pegasi and Mules would understand one another.
Hilda Hannifen started her account of the trip to visit Ted Johnstone and Dick Eney, including some D&Ding.
Ted Johnstone nitpicked Dick Eney's account of the expedition they'd shared.
APA-L #531
Hilda Hannifen continued her account of the trip.
Lee Gold announced that she and Barry were going to Japan for four months, and Jack Harness would be editing A&E till she returned. She told Ted Johnstone that she'd learned from Shakespeare that one way of fleshing out a character was to give him a few weaknesses. She told Ted Johnstone and Dick Eney how a rabbi had happened onto the scene in their D&D adventure.
APA-L #532
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup. She commented to Len and June Moffatt on the difference between "those who claim to know the doing of magic" and D&D which "however, is a game." She commented to Mark Swanson on his Singing Web and on Gygax-style magic users. She asked, "Have you considered that it is possible that this entire fannish generation might be defined by Dungeons and Dragons?" She asked Virginia Bauer where her A&E articles were. She told Mike Galloway that five characters was a bit too few for most West Coast dungeons; ten was more common. She commented to De Jueves (June Moffatt) about Ted Johnstone's D&D game by phone.
Lee Gold commented to Hilda Hannifen about their trip with Ted Johnstone to DC. She told Whittier that copy count for A&E was at least 60 and rising soon.
APA-L #533
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone the problem [with hybrids] was to keep them from over-running the game. "Assume they are all sterile."
Tom Digby asked Hilda Hannifen about Cause vs Cure Wounds.
Hilda Hannifen wrote about a trip to LA in which she went D&Ding in Frank Gasperik's dungeon and then Jack Harness's, visited Aero Hobbies, and then went to Lee Gold's dungeon.
Lee Gold commented to Hilda Hoffman about phantasmal forces.
APA-L #534
June Moffatt told Tom Digby that it was far easier to cause wounds than to cure them, and maybe the D&D rules reflected this.
Hilda Hannifen commented to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) about an APA-L vehicle D&D game. She commented to Dick Eney on Brilliant Jade's nail-protectors. She defined some D&D monsters for John Hertz. She commented to Eney and Harness that D&D is "riddled with inconsistencies already....So what if Jack endangered the universe." She told Mark Swanson that Bay Area dungeons had an 85% occupancy rate, not counting wandering monsters. She also made several other comments to him. She told Matthew Tepper that High Dungeon was the area's banking firm. She commented to Dick Eney about languages. She commented to June Moffatt about her characters and on self-created magic items.
Ted Johnstone asked Lee Gold if the High Abbot's speech could be used for A&E contribution credit.
Mark Swanson advised Hilda Hannifen to buy EMPIRE OF THE PETAL THRONE and said it would probably be out of print soon.
APA-L #535
Roger Hill's second zine told the Moffatts that perhaps a fighter could get "inflicted" by Cure Wounds before going into a dungeon and getting wounded — with the recipient feeling wounded until "cured" by an actual wound.
Hilda Hannifen wrote up a trip she and Owen had had in Jerry Jacks' dungeon. (two pages)
APA-L #536
June Moffatt praised Roger Hill's idea but said there'd have to be some disadvantage to doing it.
Ted Johnstone told Hilda Hannifen that the Traditional Order of (D&D) play was ill-suited to a postal game and explained what he meant. He said he might write up the expedition that her characters had taken in his dungeon for A&E since he needed contribution credit. He told Tom Digby about STAR PROBE, published by TSR. He mentioned what some of his characters were doing and feeling.
Hilda Hannifen told Carl that D&D wasn't the same as Dungeon.
APA-L #537
Lee Gold told Hilda Hannifen she liked that idea of "double damage if you don't go down a level." She told John Hertz that her "bandar-log" came in groups and a single one would probably be called "a monkey."
Dick Eney reminiscenced about his visit to Lee Gold's dungeon (Neocarn). He also discussed the background of his character Brilliant Jade. He told Tom Digby about Jock Root's dungeon and about Lee Gold's "Engineers" (anti-magic users), the parallel to Evil Clerics who are anti-Good Clerics.
Hilda Hannifen commented to herself on Bay Area parties vs Gygax parties.
APA-L Dramatis Personae
TOM DIGBY (lived in Los Angeles):
Tom joined LASFS October 11, 1965.
See conchord.org/xeno/digby/digby.html, www.well.com/~bubbles/
DICK ENEY (lived in the DC area)
boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/person:63378
DAVE FOX (lived in Los Angeles): www.kayshapero.net/Khorlia/khorlia.html#retrospective
VIXEN (FOX): Ellen Fox, Dave's daughter
ALAN FRISBIE (lived in Los Angeles)
computer programmer. Member of LASFS and NESFA.
BARRY GOLD (lived in Los Angeles)
enrolled in CalTech in 1963 (age 16), a the time the youngest student to ever enroll in CalTech. He dropped out a couple of years later and became a computer programmer. He joined LASFS November 11, 1964.
www.conchord.org/xeno/bdgsig.html
LEE GOLD (lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Gold
www.conchord.org/xeno/leegold.html
DAN GOODMAN: Originally from upstate New York (rather than from New York city).
(lived in Los Angeles)
HILDA HANNIFEN (married to Owen Hannifen, later changed her name to Eclare Hannifen)
rpggeek.com/rpgdesigner/63431/hilda-c-hannifen
increment" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">medium.com/increment increment increment increment/the-first-female-gamers-c784fbe3ff37#.xgkawr893
(had lived in Los Angeles but moved to San Francisco)
JACK HARNESS (lived in Los Angeles)
Scientologist.
fancyclopedia.wikidot.com/jack-harness
JOHN HERTZ (lived in Los Angeles)
Scientologist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hertz_%28fan%29
TED JOHNSTONE (David McDaniel, Tedron)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_McDaniel
(had lived in Los Angeles, moved to Pennsylvania)
PAULA LIEBERMAN (lived in Boston)
Her program participant bio for Arisia 2013 notes that she " went to her first convention, which was a worldcon, and college the same weekend. Since then she's been to a bunch more conventions, many of which she's worked on, including Arisia, and has had more career changes than she can remember—military officer, systems engineer, analyst, tech writer, test engineer, market researcher, consultant… "
JUNE MOFFATT (lived in Los Angeles):
fancyclopedia.org/june-moffatt
FUZZY PINK (NIVEN) (lived in Los Angeles): Larry Niven's wife, an MIT graduate
FRED PATTEN(lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Patten
BRUCE PELZ(lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Pelz
MARK SWANSON: Mark joined LASFS June 17, 1971 back when he lived in Pomona, but then went off to Boston to attend MIT and then to seek employment). He was a member of MITSFS (the MIT Science Fiction Society) and MITSGS (the MIT Strategic Gaming Society). He wrote the first APA-Lzine that mentioned Dungeons and Dragons. Later on (after the founding of A&E), Mark would found his own roleplaying game APA: THE WILD HUNT, which he said was aimed not at roleplayers but at Game Masters. Its first issue came out in February, 1976. For awhile Greg Stafford contributed. At first TWH came out monthly, but after awhile it began taking a summer vacation. It also started having an issue Theme (which eventually inspired A&E to have an Ignorable Theme). By 1994 it was no longer around.
GARY SWITZER (Aero Hobbies) (lived in Los Angeles)
www.buzzfile.com/business/Aero-Hobbies-310-828-5264
Later on, A&E was sold at Aero Hobbies on consignment.
MATTHEW TEPPER: Matthew joined LASFS March 27, 1969 as a teenager. He studied Music in college with the hope of becoming a conductor. He lived in Minneapolis for awhile, then moved to San Francisco, and eventually moved back to Los Angeles.
BJO TRIMBLE(lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjo_Trimble
(APA-L stands for Amateur Press Association - LASFS, and the LASFS part means Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society.)
The first mention of D&D was in APA-L #493 (October 1974) by Mark A. Swanson. (Swanson's contributions were under the header of "Kyth Interstellar Bulletin"; it was Kyth Interstellar Bulletin #35 that was in the October 1974 APA-L collation.)
The PDF files of APA-L are available from Lee Gold. Her email address is lee.gold@ca.rr.com and she is happy to receive correspondence on this.
I have pasted an essay below that she wrote that outlines what is in each issue of APA-L. This way you can figure out what specific issue or issues you want before you contact her. This essay is posted here with permission from Lee Gold.
My understanding is that each PDF is $1 per issue, but check with Lee on that when you contact.
---------------------
APA-L & ROLEPLAYING
by Lee Gold lee.gold@ca.rr.com
The Wikipedia article on Alarums and Excursions at 8 AM, March 31st started "Alarums and Excursions (A&E) is an amateur press association started in June 1975 by Lee Gold (at the request of Bruce Pelz, who felt that discussion of Dungeons & Dragons was taking up too much space in APA-L, the APA of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society). It was the first publication to focus solely on role-playing games."
But I got my husband to fix it, and it now refers to "APA-L, the APA of Los Angeles's SF Fandom, usually collated at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society)."
I wasn't there when APA-L started on October 22, 1964; I didn't start attending LASFS until August 17, 1967. By then APA-F was dead, but APA-L was still going on. It stopped for awhile in 1968 at issue #180 — and during that sad time for awhile some of us contributed to APA Christmas aka APA-Noel (= No L) until that too died off. And then APA-L started again with issue #181, and it's still coming out today, every Thursday, even on Thanksgiving, even when LASFS itself didn't meet (for instance when martial law was declared in greater Los Angeles during the 1992 Los Angeles civil unrest, when it was collated in our home.
*******
What's an "Amateur Press Association"? There's a Wikipedia article at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_press_association. Fannish lore agrees that APAs started with amateur printers who wanted to show off their printers. Some SF fandom fanzine editors joined these APAs, like NAPA (the National Amateur Press Association), the first US APA, founded in 1876. Their contributions weren't nearly as beautifully printed as those of the printer hobbyists because their focus was on what they had to say and eventually they began to form their own APAs. The first SF fandom APA was FAPA: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Amateur_Press_Association
An APA is headed by an editor or collator or some other officer who's responsible for putting together the individual contributions (zines) and sending them out to the contributors and/or subscribers. Some APAs elect this officer — who may therefore change from time to time. Some APAs have an owner/editor.
An APA may have a closed list of members or may be open to all contributors or may also be available to anyone who wants to purchase a copy.
An APA usually consists of
1) a cover showing the issue number and perhaps the date, perhaps an illustration
2) probably a table of contents, showing a list of individual contributions (zines) and authors
3) probably the APA's rules — what you have to do to get a copy
4) individual contributions (zines: short for "fanzines")
Apazines were sometimes printed on Ditto stencils and sometimes mimeographed. Dittoed zines tend to fade out over the years, especially if exposed to sunlight. Scanning a dittoed zine (usually purple print) on colored paper is especially difficult.
An apazine usually consists of
1) a title
2) the author's name or pseudonym and contact information (maybe a snailmail address, after the Internet was established maybe an email address, after the Web was established maybe a URL)
3) perhaps one or more short or long essays
4) perhaps artwork
5) perhaps one or more poems or songs
6) usually comments on the previous issue, each one probably titled with the name or zine title of the person being addressed — think of this as the equivalent of the "letters to the editor section" in a standard magazine. This section is the heart of the apazine. The first thing a contributor usually does when he or she gets a new issue of an APA is to read it looking for comments on his or her previous zine. Inside a paragraph addressed to a person, comments on different topics may be separated by slashes (//) or other typographical symbols. APA-L tradition includes Fuzzy Niven's Law: "You have to give comments to get comments." Remarks that elicit comments are "comment hooks."
********
Roleplaying in LASFSian Fandom
The first Roleplaying Game that LASFS fans encountered wasn't D&D; it was Dynasty: a large red can with a cloth map and plastic soldiers and a lot of beautiful wooden pieces — eight booklets that all looked alike until you opened them up and found out if you'd gotten the Emperor; the Official, Gentry/Landholder; Scholar; Silk Peasant; Rice Peasant; Wheat Peasant, or the Warlord. It came out in 1969. boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/9363/dynasty
We also played Revenge!, a board game created by LASFSian Jack Harnesss, somewhat like Monopoly but 50% wider than Monopoly, with planets rather than street territories. There were teleports (and power stations needed to get them running). Pournelle's Point that sent you down to the Black Hole if you landed on it. The Torture Chamber. Three Dueling Planets (where you could fight Risk-style duels with Armies you picked up in various ways). After you died, you reincarnated as one of five mythic characters: Vulchurella (the Torturer's Ugly Daughter), Prince Putrid (the lawful ruler, who'd been usurped), Pastor Fazool (a bribe-loving man of religion who could provide immunity from various threats), the Green Slime (who temporarily poisoned the square he was on — and the previous square he'd been on), and the Emperor, who unlike the other characters didn't move: he just rolled the dice and moved — or threatened to move — other pieces, and had to get $300 more each turn or he'd die. I've still got the (very complex) rules around somewhere. And now you can find them at www.conchord.org/revenge/.
Meanwhile in Minneapolis, in 1974, fans were playing DUNGEON: see playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012/08/rules-to-game-of-dungeon-1974.html (posted by Jon Peterson):
"One of the perennial questions about the history of role-playing games is this: which came second, Tunnels & Trolls or Empire of the Petal Throne? Deciding between the two is largely a question of semantics, of whether you count various small-run amateur publications as releases or not. Fortunately, historians don't need to choose between the two, because Craig VanGrasstek's Rules to the Game of Dungeon (1974) beat them both handily. Weighing in at eighteen pages, and released late in the summer of 1974, Rules to the Game of Dungeon seems certain to be the second published role-playing game.
"The great irony of VanGrasstek's Dungeon is that he was unaware of Dungeons & Dragons when he produced it, due to an almost incredible chain of events. In February of 1974, a Minneapolis science-fiction fan named Louis Fallert (better known as Blue Petal) began running a game called "Castle Keep" which he based on his experiences playing in dungeon adventures with the MMSA [the Minnesota Military Simulation Association - LG] (Fallert wrote a blurb about this for Alarums & Excursions #3). While it seems that Fallert himself was vaguely aware of Dungeons & Dragons, he presented "Castle Keep" to local science-fiction fans in such a way that many took it to be a game of his own invention. Much as Gygax adventured in Blackmoor with Arneson and then largely implemented his own rules from his experience, so did Fallert build a system for dungeoneering that followed his own subjective impressions as a player.
"These 'Castle Keep' games became quite popular in Minneapolis in 1974, as contemporary issues of the local fanzine, Minneapa, document, and many local fans developed their own dungeons, largely unaware of the existence of Dungeons & Dragons. Craig VanGrasstek played in the first incarnation of Castle Keep,' and later ran a dungeon; as the Foreword to his rules observes, there were nine total dungeons based on 'Castle Keep' in Minneapolis by the summer. VanGrasstek recognized that there was little standardization among the rules of these dungeons, but he nonetheless hoped to write up an account of the game that would let people outside Minneapolis share in the fun. He therefore created fifty copies for distribution at the World Science Fiction Convention at the end of August 1974, and circulated his rules through Minneapa.
"Once he started publicizing his rules, others were quick to point out the existence of Dungeons & Dragons, and thus Rules of the Game of Dungeon quickly fell into obscurity. The Minneapolis Dungeon tradition it preserves did however influence a generation of dungeoneers who began playing in 1974. Glenn Blacow, later a very prominent early player and dungeon master in Boston, first learned the game from the Minneapolis Dungeon before he ever saw a true copy of Dungeons & Dragons. [Glenn Blacow later contributed to A&E and aided Mark Swanson in putting out The Wild Hunt. -- LG]
"Fallert clearly was not trying to rip off TSR, and neither was VanGrasstek - neither profited from this venture. Both were simply sharing a pastime they enjoyed, in a manner that is well in keeping with the practices of science-fiction fandom. VanGrasstek only inadvertently released a game that competed with Dungeons & Dragons; it would not be until 1975 that other authors would intentionally try to market simpler and cheaper alternatives. In fact, it is likely that by preserving the game as he did, VanGrasstek did historians a great favor. There are certain elements of his Rules that resemble accounts of the original Blackmoor system, and it seems likely that Fallert informally preserved some Twin Cities practices for play that did not end up in the final drafts of Dungeons & Dragons. Thanks to VanGrasstek, we have a unique window into strongly reagent-based magic systems, mitigation-based armor and much less formal dicing mechanics."
LASFSians heard about this game from friends who'd lived in Minneapolis (like Matthew Tepper) or who participated in MinneAPA (like Tom Digby).
See file770.com/?p=16051 and www.unreason.com/files/RulesToTheGameOfDungeon.pdf
APA-LS WITH ROLEPLAYING GAME DISCUSSION
APA-L #493 (October 24, 1974):
Mark Swanson
APA-L #494 (October 31, 1974):
June Moffatt (commenting on Mark Swanson)
Matthew Tepper (commenting on Mark Swanson to say that "Dungeon" has been "a major craze in Minneapolis fandom...."
Lee Gold (commenting on Mark Swanson)
APA-L #495
Tom Digby commented to Haplography (Lee Gold) in #494 that "Minneapolis Fandom has been playing...a game called Dungeon...."
Matthew Tepper commented to Len and June Moffatt in #494 about "the Dungeon game."
APA-L #496
Matthew Tepper commented to Tom Digby, "I recall Dick Tatge consulting a copy of the 'Dungeons and Dragons' rulebook at the Hobbitat Dungeon games...which means that the Minnesota fans probably derive their versions (which differ from player to player) from that book."
APA-L #497
Mark Swanson seems to have a D&D writeup.
APA-L #499
Ted Johnstone's comments about a sword cane aren't about a D&D weapon. He himself owned a sword cane. He comments on Mark Swanson's writeup, saying that "The game sounds fascinating."
APA-L #501
Lee Gold chronicles a visit to San Francisco when she observed a group playing D&D — and says "Barry may be getting hooked by that game."
APA-L #502
Lee Gold describes a Revenge! game.
APA-L #503
Mark Swanson discusses D&D — "random gamemasters."
APA-L #504
Mark Swanson says he may run a D&D game when he visits LA at the end of March.
APA-L #505
Mark Swanson mentions D&D
Lee Gold comments to Mark Swanson about Xeroxing his copy of D&D, buying "those weird dice."
APA-L #508
Lee Gold reports that the Hannifens visited Los Angeles and ran a D&D game for her and Barry, and left them two xeroxes of the rules ("one for us and one for LASFS"). There's a three-page write-up of the game.
Alan Frisbie writes about Revenge going around NCR.
Barry Gold writes about revising Revenge.
APA-L #509
June Moffatt commented to Lee Gold that she'd love to see the D&D rules: "sounds like any one of the games makes a good adventure story."
Lee Gold mentioned more Revenge revisions.
Matthew Tepper commented "Fascinated to see that Dungeons and Dragons has caught on in LA at last. It took Minneapolis by storm months ago, and the gaming fascinated me to the extent that I was down at the Hobbitat a lot to learn the ropes.
Fred Patten commented that the description of the D&D game was fascinating but he couldn't visualize the rules that could result in such moves.
Neeters and Glenn Mitchell discuss a wooden Revenge board and want to know when they can try D&D.
Bjo Trimble says she'd like to try D&D someday.
Barry announces a REVENGE! party.
Larry Nielson said "Dungeons and Dragons sounds like fun."
APA-L #510
Matthew Tepper commented to Lee Gold about his first game of D&D and offered advice on how to improve things.
Alan Frisbie commented to Jack Harness about Revenge.
Lee Gold ran "Dungeons and Dragons notes" to various people and announced a March 9th D&D game. She also wrote up a D&D game she DMed (one page).
Dan Goodman reported to Matthew Tepper that D&D was catching on in LA — and irritating the card players at the 4th Sunday game.
Ted Johnstone commented to Lee Gold that he was faunching for a copy of D&D. "What drove me to frustration in your narrative of the brief practice game with the Hannifens was the lack of indication at decision points whether something was pre-established, decided by dice, calculated from impinging factors, or made up on the spot. I understand that the parameters on this game make it possibly a new order of Game....I have hundreds of questions...."
APA-L #511
Bruce Pelz commented on the growing number of D&D players at Fourth Sunday Parties.
Bjo Trimble commented, "Dungeons and Dragons sounds so complicated, I don't know if I'd ever catch on."
Ted Johnstone reported that he'd gotten the D&D rules and spends a page discussing them and plans for playing in Lee Gold's dungeon, plans for designing his own dungeon.
Paula Lieberman (Noises) commented to Matthew Tepper about D&D in the NESFA area.
Lee Gold commented about D&D to June Moffatt and to Ted Johnstone.
June Moffatt commented to Ted Johnstone (Tedron), "We were telling Rick Sneary about the D&D game, and he expressed interest. Wonder if we can ever manage to get him to one."
Dian Crayne commented to Lee Gold, "Dungeons and Dragons does sound like fun."
John Hertz commented to Lee Gold, "It's really amusing to see how well whoever thought up D&D has systematized the important elements of Adventures. Maybe after we get used to D&D we can think up an expanded version that would not be confined to indoors....In a real adventure, you can't just go home. You have to get back...."
Jack Harness wrote D&D comments on a game he'd observed that Lee Gold had DMed and announced he intended to design his own dungeon.
Mark Swanson described GORREE Dungeon. He added, "If D&D gets going, every effort should be made to make sure the games are compatible and that everyone accepts each others ranks...." He commented to Dick Eney about someday putting in a court to try characters for genocide. He told Jack Harness that he'd appreciate information on Objectivist Mutated Mouse Musicians because he'd put them in his dungeon. He commented to Lee Gold about the problems of selling REVENGE!
APA-L #512
June Moffatt told Bruce Pelz (Brucifer) "there's no required players in D&D." She asked Ted Johnstone (Tedron) to "re-codify the rules of D&D" and comments on the cost of garlic on the shopping list. She commented to Lee about mapping.
Jack Harness commented to Mark Swanson about Dungeon monsters.
Matthew Tepper commented to Lee Gold about a possible CRT dungeon with wandering dragons a la various CRT games in pinball parlors.
Tom Digby commented to Lee Gold (Haplography) about making a jigsaw puzzle of her dungeon map, revealing it as doors are opened. He also imagined futuristic Dungeon vending machines for personae, descents, maps, etc.
Ted Johnstone did a game writeup.
Lee Gold announced the upcoming D&D party— and said the Hannifens would be coming, so there'd be two dungeons. She told Bruce Pelz you only need two people to play D&D: a DM and a player.
Mark Swanson wrote more stuff about his dungeon, using miniatures, and also mentioned The American Wargamer.
The BoskONE SHOT (page 2) had Lee Gold's note that she and Barry had been playing D&D in Mark Swanson's dungeon. // Mark Swanson says an impromptu D&D demo is being given to APA-Ler Tom Collins.
APA-L #513
Tom Digby's title referred to Pro "Dungeon" teams playing it as a spectator sport — and went on to discuss Minneapolis fans' interest in the game and the relations of D&D and Dungeon. He also mentioned "Dungeon songs" like "Listen to the Rhythm of the Raging Rats" and "You kill sixteen orcs and whaddya get?" He then pondered other ideas concerning D&D for two pages. He commented to Jack Harness (Gallstone) about dungeon creatures who played games (like dominoes).
Ted Johnstone related his first dungeon expedition (2.5 pages). He says "It's a hell of a game. It is, as I suspected, a new order, a new dimension, of game. I am reliably assured that...Lee's Dungeon is only a simple beginner's effort." He also considered D&Doid rules for Mission Impossible. He told John Hertz "There already is a surface game similar to D&D...." He worried about Mark Swanson's dungeon's high mortality rate (six out of 17).
Barry Gold told Bjo Trimble that D&D didn't involve players taking turns; the "party leader" might "play" a new player's character till the player got more experience.
Jack Harness did a couple of writeups.
Lee Gold briefly mentioned a couple of dungeon trips at Boskone and more at Dave's (Ted Johnstone's) home — and a run back in Los Angeles with the Hannifens touring Lee's Neo dungeon, and finally the Sunday Thing with three dungeons: Lee's, the Hannifens', and a CalTech dungeon (which Lee described as "Fairy D&D" a la "Fairy Chess" or "Dungeons and Beavers"). She told Bjo Trimble that D&D wasn't complicated to play. She told John Hertz he seemed to have independently thought up Wilderness. She told Mark Swanson she was looking forward to seeing him and his dungeon. She commented to Jack Harness about D&D stats of OMMMusicians.
Mark Swanson told Lee Gold "You people are hard on dungeons."
APA-L #514
Lee Gold commented to Tom Digby on awarding Experience Pts, Hit Dice, Dungeon (as played in Minneapolis). She commented to June Moffatt about Animals as D&D monsters. She commented to Ted Johnstone that the rocs in her dungeon had been recently fed. She commented to Jack Harness about some details he'd forgotten — and about the new dungeon she was planning. And she wrote a D&Desque "Cover Story." (two pages)
Vixen Fox said she was enjoying the Dungeon talk though she couldn't picture the game being played.
John Hertz (zine title "What Can A Thetan Think") commented on a "Thinkless Thetan" as a Dungeon monster.
Mark Swanson had a section titled "Jargon and Dungeons" with comments about D&D to Jack Harness, Bruce Pelz, Tom Digby, Ted Johnstone, John Hertz. He told Bill Warren that Russell Seitz was a 5th level Monster and he told Ted Johnstone: "Most casualties have been due to stupidity.... Walls have gold stripes. Barbarian bites wall. Barbarian finds mouth full of gold foil and green slime."
Ted Johnstone had an essay about the setting of his new dungeon and perhaps a new PC. He also mentioned an improved system for referring to characters who would be kept on 3x5 or 5x8 cards: "a third class Fighter is F3" and dice (two standard cubes are 2D6). He offered the still timely advice, "If you want to participate, you have to say so" and discussed a GP's buying power. He told Jack Harness he had Mutated Mice in his dungeon too.
Dan Goodman suggested a D&D dungeon which at some point required players to play Dungeon, during which at some point they had to play D&D, during which.... He commented to Lee Gold that he wouldn't object to barring games but does object to barring just D&D but not card games.
Jack Harness did corrigenda and continued his writeup (including having to roll to save after making horrible puns).
Tom Digby had a very short story about dying in a car accident and waking up in an armchair with the GM saying, "Sorry your character got killed like that." He told Ted Johnstone he could do a story about a world with a computerized D&D-like game in which people or nations would settle insults by D&D0-oid duels or wars and one's real world social standing might depend on one's success in the Game.
Barry Gold mentioned a recent expedition that Lee & Barry jointly DMed (for the first time).
APA-L #515
Ted Johnstone explained "hit dice" to Tom Digby. He commented to June Moffatt about D&D stuff.
Harrison Rose mentioned miniatures for sale and asked how long spells last. He seems to have been a CalTech D&Der.
Dick Eney commented to Lee and Barry that he'd like to get into a D&D game.
June Moffatt asked Mark Swanson why the Barbarian bit the wall. She asked Tedron (Ted Johnstone) if he was implying there were sea creatures and merpeople in the lower parts of his dungeon and various other questions about what he'd implied. She asked Jxtn (Jack Harness) what powered his dungeon's elevator and how low it went.
Tom Digby commented to Mark Swanson (Kyth Interstellar Bul) and Ted Johnston (B-Roll Neg) about their D&D comments.
Jack Harness did a expedition writeup (two pages).
Mark Swanson mentions D&D but says he's going to try to keep his APA-Lzine from being "another D&D zine." He comments to Matthew Bruce Tepper about a character who's literally chicken: a fighting cock. He comments to Ted Johnstone about monsters who can't be low level. He comments to Jack Harness about OMMMusicians.
Lee Gold told John Hertz that "D&D is sufficiently complex...that people into it frequently speak of other realities in terms of D&D concepts...." She also had D&D comments on the "Cover Sotyr" (sic). She advised Swanson he might want to put in a protection against "bullies" who attack those over two levels lower. She told Tedron (Ted Johnstone) that Swanson gave bonus experience to characters with initiative. She commented about D&D to Jack Harness. She commented on Tom Digby's idea of fighting duels in a D&D dungeon by saying it would be random, determined by dice, not skill. She contributed a new monster: the Marshwiggle (from C. S. Lewis).
APA-L #516
Lee Gold said she's giving riddles to sphinxes in her dungeons. She told Dick Eney that playing Dynasty had taught people cooperation and reminisced about some old games. She told June Moffatt about her dungeon elevator (powered by large squirrels). She commented to Harrison about D&D. She said she'd put a new wing onto the dungeon.
Tom Digby commented on DMs who don't understand gays and lesbians and other issues of more emotional interest to the character than the player.
Ted Johnstone made D&D comments on Lee Gold's cover story in #514. He made D&D comments to Mark Swanson and to Jack Harness .
Mark Swanson explained why the Barbarian bit the gold wall. He told Dan Goodman he hadn't managed to kill anyone yet "though if last night's group hadn't brought along 'Hold Portal....'" He wrote up Kzinti as D&D Monsters.
Dan Goodman told Lee Gold at least two people objected to having people play Revenge, Perquacky, Oh Hell, and other games — and perhaps all games should be banned.
APA-L #517
Dave Fox commented on installing Khorlian creatures in a dungeon. www.kayshapero.net/Khorlia/khorlia.html
Tom Digby made a D&D-related comment to June Moffatt (De Jueves).
Ted Johnstone commented to Dick Eney about Balrogs in the D&D rules. He told Tom Digby about how visitors might travel to his dungeon or might just skip that step. He commented to Mark Swanson somewhat acerbically about what levels of PCs would be admitted to his dungeon.
June Moffatt asked Lee Gold if there was a chance of holding a D&D game in the LASFS Library while Phantom of the Paradise was being shown in the main room because she'd like to play more D&D. She also discussed Lee's squirrel-powered dungeon elevator and a "char service that goes about with a flamethrower."
Lee Gold had an elliptical D&D comment to Matthew Tepper about "how Schmutzig got the clap." She told Tedron (Ted Johnstone) to revise the Cover Story distance to a mere "ten hexes." She asked Mark Swanson for more details on Kzinti as Monsters. There's a D&D writeup: half a page, to be continued.
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone that he'd scattered kryptonite in his dungeon to affect "super-characters." He also discussed Hold Person vs Charm Person.
Paula Lieberman commented to Mark Swanson about the Barbarian who bit the wall and other D&D bits.
APA-L #518
Ted Johnstone described Frankenstein's Monster in D&D terms to Lee Gold.
June Moffatt commented to Tom Digby about Kim Kinnison's Intelligence in D&Doid terms and continued the discussion of what happened to Dungeon Water.
Tom Digby told Ted Johnstone (B Roll Negative) that each dungeon seemed to be in its own world with different physical laws. He told Lee Gold that while the Kzin was a worthy foe for some dungeon parties, the Thrint would be better for others.
Lee Gold commented to Digby about monster urine & dung. She commented to June Moffatt about the squirrel-powered elevator and other D&D topics. She commented to Mark Swanson about various spells. She continued the Hannifen dungeon trip writeup.
John Hertz chronicled his first dungeon expedition. He thought there was "a lot of talking."
APA-L #519
Barry Gold reported a trip to San Francisco with a visit to Hilda's dungeon and an overland trip on a Jerry Jacks map.
Lee Gold commented to Dick Eney about Dynasty. She commented to Ted Johnstone about D&D topics. She commented to Craig Miller about putting phantoms and spirits into the "monster canon." She ran notes on Snarks and Boojums, with comments on what CalTech said about them. She commented to John Hertz about "D&D noise." She continued her writeup.
June Moffatt had a D&D comment to Tom Digby about weapons. She asked Lee about Lee's escalator.
Tom Digby continued the discussion on dungeon use of water — and said Dungeon worlds might not have "the same physical laws ours does" and then discussed phlogiston.
Ted Johnstone commented to Lee Gold, objecting in principle to limiting spells (anymore than limiting sword swings). "The point of the game is not to kill off the tourists but to give them an exciting ride....Maybe our interpretations of the Game are beginning to drift apart. I would certainly avoid Swanson's Dungeon because of the vindictive air I feel in his constructions....But this discussion actually belongs in some kind of D&D letter exchange. I have a few ideas of my own for expansion of concepts." He told Tom Digby that he objected to a DM "telling a player how hiser character will react."
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone that MIT gamers frequently insisted that people had to bring in new D&D characters. He gave Lee Gold details on Kzin as monsters.
APA-L #520
Lee Gold said that they'd had the first and last Fourth Sunday Party to have a D&D game. "A small party cannot well survive having twelve people closet themselves away for six hours." She told June Moffatt about the dungeon escalator powered by electric eels, which also powered a mimeograph on a fifth floor one-shot party. She continued the D&D writeup. She discussed D&D with Tedron (Ted Johnstone), including not letting magic users dominate the game.
John Hertz told Tom Digby he wouldn't want to meet a thrint in a dungeon. "Present dungeoneering is based on a bash-oriented model of fighting." He told the Moffatts "It seems that D&D games can get held up by all the needed dice throwing." His comment to Lee Gold seems to be asking for miniatures.
June Moffatt asked Barry Gold about the rank of his character Donna (could a rabbi really be a bishop?) and what was a "bag of holding." She continued the discussion of dungeon dung in a comment to Lee Gold and also asked some questions.
Ted Johnstone reported on a D&D expedition he'd participated in by telephone. Two page writeup and then some D&D ideas. He told Dave Fox how he's developing his dungeon. He commented to Mark Swanson about the Rules (on spells).
Virginia Bauer wrote a zine about D&Ding.
Tom Digby asked Ted Johnstone whether one could withdraw from a game in protest without having the DM declare the character dead.
Tom Locke asked Lee Gold if the elevator squirrels ever pooped out while hoisting a heavy load.
There's a flyer for Aero Hobbies (a gaming store).
Mark Swanson told Lee Gold and Jack Harness he was sending "some materials on D&D." He mentioned the AWA [American Wargaming Association] and Greyhawk.
APA-L #521
Marc Schirmeister's cover depicted monsters playing "fandom's latest game sensation": "Basements and Iguanas"
Jack Harness published his filksong, "Music to Loot Dungeons By." Also a verse to "Eating Crottled Greeps." And an invitation to various characters to come to his new dungeon. He also commented on the Rule Books (as "complex, cumbersome, inclusive...but the playacting is fun"), and mentioned Bruce Pelz's shock "when I decided to play D&D instead of Hell." He mentioned the "All [Ed] Green Expedition.
June Moffatt corrected Lee Gold on D&Ding at 4th Sunday Parties. She told Tedron (Ted Johnstone) that she'd seen slight but interesting differences between his account and Lee Gold's account of the game.
Ted Johnstone told Barry Gold about his newly outfitted party of seven. He commented to June Moffatt about firearms in a dungeon; he'd just done a "V.C. [Viet Cong?] emplantment." He went on to give details on rifles, shotguns, pistols, etc. He told Tom Digby he loved his idea of dragons getting phlogiston from their food. He commented to himself (and to Lee, Mark Swanson, and other GMs) that after talking it over with Lee he now accepted the concept of some limit on spell-casting energy. He told Mark Swanson that a dungeon that only accepted "novices" would quickly get boring for players though it could be useful for training novices and thinning the ranks of incompetents.
Hilda Hannifen wrote up several adventures in several dungeons. Two pages.
John Hertz complimented Ted Johnstone on his narrative style which made his D&D adventures good reading.
Lee Gold told Dick Eney some details about her dungeon. She mentioned "a D&D APA (as yet unnamed)" to Bjo Trimble. She announced "From now on our D&D parties will ALWAYS be Wednesday nights." She announced the D&D Eclipsecon on Memorial Day weekend. She commented to John Hertz on "immolate", telepathy, Thrints, electronic dice, markers (miniatures). She commented to June Moffatt about bags of holding. She commented to Tom Locke about the squirrels who powered her dungeon elevator.
Fred Patten asked Lee Gold what would happen if the elevator broke and marooned your team in the dungeon
Mark Swanson chatted with Lee Gold about D&D stuff.
Another flyer from Aero Hobbies
APA-L #522
A cover drawn by Boston fan Glenn F. Blacow shows three characters going off toward a dungeon.
John Hertz tells Ted Johnstone that it seems reasonable that magic users should use up spell points and get tired just as fighters do. He comments to Lee Gold in terms of Significance to Mass ratio.
There's a zine from Gary Switzer, owner of Aero Hobbies — about what he's got for sale and about his own dungeon.
Matthew Tepper told Hilda Hannifen he hoped he could contribute a few characters "to act as dungeon fodder" but had nobody over First Level. He said one of the most interesting things about the game was the mixture of seriousness and funny. He told Mark Swanson that he hoped his character managed to have the ring removed — or perhaps learn the language of Two-Headed Duckish..
Lee Gold corrected Jack Harness as to when he first saw the D&D rules. She explained to June Moffatt that Ted Johnstone had gotten his information on what was going on in the dungeon expedition from Barry, not from her. She told Hilda Hannifen that she made D&D sound like more fun and less "rule-bookkeeping" than Jack Harness did. She told Fred Patten that so far her elevator was reliable, but if it ever broke, it would be good to have flying potion. She told Tom Locke that Neocarn (her dungeon) was set "in the dark ages of the 2300s." She commented to Mark Swanson about the difficulty of seeing everyone as a two-headed duck and told him that Angelenos now had Greyhawk and discussed. She commented to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) about half-elves (and a half-elf - half-orc) and his regeneration rules.
June Moffatt told Hilda Hannifen she didn't believe in a Neutral Orc.
Ted Johnstone wrote about factors that "overwhelm the character's volition" and objected to the referee who overwhelmed your character's attitude, intentions...." He went on to nitpick Detect Evil detecting phosphates and said he'd done more surface area around his dungeon. He told John Hertz about Telepathy and ESP in D&D — and about the variety of dice throwing. He told June Moffatt about the "cleanup crew" and said that the best use of "modern weaponry" in a dungeon was to encourage poor DMs to mishandle it and "screw themselves."
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup (three pages).
Barry Gold did an adventure writeup (half a page).
Virginia Bauer told Gail [Selinger?] and Kara [Schnatmeier? Dalkey?] that their dungeon was neat. She admired Ted Johnstone for playing D&D by phone.
M. J. Galloway also commented to Gail and Kara about their dungeon. He described one of his characters.
Eclipsecon was a Get Together at Lee & Barry Golds' rented house over a weekend, which also had a lunar eclipse. Their home (Brandyhall) had a living room plus dining area (over 20 feet long) with a couch long enough to seat four, a den with two small couches, a small bedroom with a twin bed, a master bedroom, and a patio with a second refrigerator, but only one bathroom.
APA-L #523
Mark Swanson told Lee Gold a D&D anecdote. He told Ted Johnstone "I am a supporter of the slogan 'D&D is too important to leave to Gary Gygax'" and went on to explain how the original rules handled spells and discuss other D&D matters. He told Dick Eney about an upcoming wargaming convention in Baltimore which Gygax would be attending and DMing at and which he also planned to attend and DM at. He told Virginia Bauer how many players (six) he liked in a party and made other D&D comments to her. He commented to Tom Digby about how firearms worked in his dungeon. He also commented to "Me" about D&D matters. He mentioned Robert Sacks' attempt to have items for Clerics that would help them the same way magic swords helped fighters and magic items helped magic users.
Ted Johnstone commented on several D&D points to Mark Swanson. He also discussed his dungeon. He applauded Harness's song.
Lee Gold wrote, "We have named the D&D-zine ALARUMS AND EXCURSIONS...I have lifted some material from APA-L so that Swanson, Digby, Harness, and Tedron [Ted Johnstone] will be contributors to the firstish which will be appearing June 22nd" and added more details. She told various APA-Lers to see her comments on their zines in A&E.
Snail Express (Larry Nielson?) told Lee Gold that Isaac Bonewits' REAL MAGIC had some things that might be handy in D&D. He asked June Moffatt about a noisy party that drew a monster that metabolized magic to stabilize something that would otherwise explode. Even if such a monster was trying to kill you, should you kill it and maybe get killed yourself?
Paula Lieberman told Mark Schirmeister that his cover for #521 showed characters too mundane to be in a dungeon. She asked Jack Harness how his dungeon compared with Mark Swanson — and said she'd run in Mark's dungeon recently. And later she chronicled her run in Mark's dungeon at the (MIT) Strategic Games Society (1.5 pages).
Gary Switzer of Aero Hobbies wrote about a "big rule change meeting" and the effects of Greyhawk. He praised Hilda Hannnifen's story and listed what his shop had for sale.
Hilda Hannifen commented to Mark Swanson and to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) about D&D stuff. She also commented to Barry Gold about Maundering Wonsters and to Gary Switzer about his Hit Chart and Trip Chart.
Barry Gold reminisced about the weekend: the start of D&D Eclipsecon including a trip to Tommy's.
John Hertz said he'd be sorry if all the D&D talk left APA-L for A&E.
Lee Gold described Eclipsecon: Disneyland (and singing during the canoe ride) and several D&D games, with Ted Johnstone participating by telephone. She commented to Mark Swanson about D&D stuff.
Dan Goodman wrote Lee: "I hope Gary Gygax will be considered a special case freebie contributor [to A&E]."
Mark Swanson told Paula Lieberman her idea was good enough to get into his dungeon. He complimented Jack Harness' song and said he wanted to hear about the all-GREEN expedition. And then he told a story about a DM who hinted he wanted to wind up a game but eventually ended it with a massacre so he could go out to dinner with friends. He commented to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) and Hilda Hannifen and Gary Switzer about D&D stuff. He commented to Lee Gold about Gandalf's level as a magic user. He commented to Dan Goodman about cursed rings.
APA-L #525
Jack Harness's cover depicted the entrance to his dungeon
Ted Johnstone wrote up his telephone participation in a D&D game (2.5 pages). He said that his further writeups would appear in A&E. He praised Glenn F. Blacow's cover for #522. He told Gary Switzer he expected to see him in A&E and commented on other issues. "Telling stories for drinks in a bar seems like a hell of a comedown for an M23 Elf with a million and a half ExPts...." He told Virginia Bauer that in D&D "solutions are much more direct and uncomplicated. It is a gratifying escape from the frustrations of the real world." He commented to Mark Swanson about rolling up characters. He tells June Moffatt about the clean-up crew.
Hilda Hannifen chronicles Eclipsecon. She notes we missed the (lunar) eclipse due to the fog. Our home was a couple of miles from the beach (a couple of miles north from our current home). We visited Aero Hobbies and she bought Greyhawk and "loads of characters." We also played Revenge!
Snail Express suggested that D&D needed a system of awarding EP in which each character asymptotically approached godhood — and asked "Have you tried giving monsters Experience Points too?"
Lee Gold reported that Barry spent the Writer's Workshop working on his D&D zine for A&E. Sunday morning she produced A&E #1 ("over thirty pages of D&Dzines"). She told Dan Goodman that they'd be sending two copies of A&E to TSR.
Mark Swanson commented to Ted Johnstone about D&D stuff. He told Paula Lieberman she'd written the "least organized" D&D report he'd ever seen but all the facts were there. He told Hilda Hannifen "The point of the limit on racial types" was to "restrict the number of non-human characters. Crossbreeds will tend to take over the game if they automatically get all the good parts from both parents."
Gail Selinger thanked Lee Gold "for the dungeon trip by phone....Thank goodness for toll free numbers. I missed Barry's lemonade."
APA-L #526
June Moffatt wrote Tedron (Ted Johnstone) to marvel at a D&D expedition that only took an hour and 15 minutes plus other D&D-related comments.
Lee Gold wrote Mark Swanson that she had sometimes sent a party a neutral elf or orc as a Native Guide who told them where things were in exchange for gold.
Tom Digby wrote Mark Swanson about inheritance of traits among halfbreeds.
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup. She also made D&Dish comments to Mark Swanson and June Moffatt. She asked Gary Switzer to contribute his "serious type discussions of D&D" to A&E because she was terrible about saving and indexing APA-L. She asked Paula Lieberman to write her D&D adventures in more detail.
Fred Patten told B Roll Negative (Ted Johnstone) that on the whole he'd be glad to see D&D move out of APA-L.
Dick Eney told Mark Swanson that he'd try to see him in Baltimore and would love to make an dungeon expedition.
Alan Frisbie commented about alternate versions of D&D.
Jack Harness wrote an essay on "Handicapping the Races" and an adventure writeup.
Ted Johnstone gave the name of his A&Ezine. He told Mark Swanson he had a dungeon room with a giant plant that grows back nearly as fast as it's cut.
APA-L #527
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup (a little over a page). She discussed D&D stuff with Mark Swanson. She said "miniatures are coming into general use" but the marching order lineup was only changed for special occasions.
Mark Swanson said his dungeon comments would keep going into APA-L on separate pages so they could also go into A&E. He thought D&D was better "when the mechanics are kept hidden." He told Lee he had possibly acquired some new contributors to A&E. This is followed by his A&Ezine (one page).
Virginia Bauer told Ted Johnstone and Mark Swanson they'd had great suggestions for dungeons. She told Lee Gold she'd enjoyed reading A&E.
Mike Galloway compared dungeons in different regions.
Jack Harness recommended that Dikini (Dick Eney) try attending Origins. He told him that Larry Niven had tried "the Game" and was "bored to tears."
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone that Robert Sacks was contributing to A&E.
APA-L #528
Dick Eney said that Lee Gold, Hilda Hannifen, and Ted Johnstone dropped by, and he finally got a chance to play D&D. "It was as interesting as they'd made it sound....Lee works to a rule of not over 10 per party...." (five page writeup)
Ted Johnstone wrote up Lee's and Hilda's visit and the excursion to DC and the D&Ding.
Hilda Hannifen wrote up an adventure.
Lee Gold briefly mentioned the trip East to visit Ted Johnstone and Dick Eney. She told Matthew Tepper and John Hertz that A&E #1 was nearly sold out and announced the deadline for A&E #2.
Mark Swanson commented to Hilda Hannifen on Fornholt's special ability.
APA-L #529
John Hertz said he'd paid for A&E #1.
Dick Eney asked Hilda Hannifen about "the languages in dungeons," wondering if Mule was a dialect of Equine, incomprehensible to Felines but quite intelligible to Pegasi.
Bruce Pelz explained that he'd dropped out of APA-L because "that Dungeons and Dragons crud bores me to extremes and it was impossible to read through APA-L for comments without plowing through pages and pages of the aforesaid crud. It still is."
Fred Patten told Dick Eney that "D&D writeups like this are almost as much fun as good sword and sorcery stories."
Lee Gold told Dick Eney she didn't have "a scaled down dungeon for neos. It is merely that some other people have a scaled up dungeon for experienced characters." She commented to Tom Collins on D&D questions he'd asked.
Virginia Bauer told Ted Johnstone that his writeups read like mini-novels.
June Moffatt told Dikini (Dick Eney) that she enjoyed reading about D&D. "Lots more than playing it." She went on to comment on his Fox Spirit.
APA-L #530
Ted Johnstone commented to Mark Swanson about D&D stuff. He commented to June Moffatt about how the Wizard Telco had helped him teleport into dungeon expeditions. He commented to Hilda Hannifen about Greyhawk and the upcoming Blackmoor. Later on he told Hilda Hannifen that he'd started painting the miniatures she'd given him.
Lee Gold reported that she'd sold off most of her A&Es at Westercon and played some good D&D games. She told John Hertz that Dan Goodman had finally told her that he'd received Hertz's money to give her and asked if he wanted A&E #1 or a later issue. She commented to Dick Eney on how much Pegasi and Mules would understand one another.
Hilda Hannifen started her account of the trip to visit Ted Johnstone and Dick Eney, including some D&Ding.
Ted Johnstone nitpicked Dick Eney's account of the expedition they'd shared.
APA-L #531
Hilda Hannifen continued her account of the trip.
Lee Gold announced that she and Barry were going to Japan for four months, and Jack Harness would be editing A&E till she returned. She told Ted Johnstone that she'd learned from Shakespeare that one way of fleshing out a character was to give him a few weaknesses. She told Ted Johnstone and Dick Eney how a rabbi had happened onto the scene in their D&D adventure.
APA-L #532
Hilda Hannifen continued her writeup. She commented to Len and June Moffatt on the difference between "those who claim to know the doing of magic" and D&D which "however, is a game." She commented to Mark Swanson on his Singing Web and on Gygax-style magic users. She asked, "Have you considered that it is possible that this entire fannish generation might be defined by Dungeons and Dragons?" She asked Virginia Bauer where her A&E articles were. She told Mike Galloway that five characters was a bit too few for most West Coast dungeons; ten was more common. She commented to De Jueves (June Moffatt) about Ted Johnstone's D&D game by phone.
Lee Gold commented to Hilda Hannifen about their trip with Ted Johnstone to DC. She told Whittier that copy count for A&E was at least 60 and rising soon.
APA-L #533
Mark Swanson told Ted Johnstone the problem [with hybrids] was to keep them from over-running the game. "Assume they are all sterile."
Tom Digby asked Hilda Hannifen about Cause vs Cure Wounds.
Hilda Hannifen wrote about a trip to LA in which she went D&Ding in Frank Gasperik's dungeon and then Jack Harness's, visited Aero Hobbies, and then went to Lee Gold's dungeon.
Lee Gold commented to Hilda Hoffman about phantasmal forces.
APA-L #534
June Moffatt told Tom Digby that it was far easier to cause wounds than to cure them, and maybe the D&D rules reflected this.
Hilda Hannifen commented to Tedron (Ted Johnstone) about an APA-L vehicle D&D game. She commented to Dick Eney on Brilliant Jade's nail-protectors. She defined some D&D monsters for John Hertz. She commented to Eney and Harness that D&D is "riddled with inconsistencies already....So what if Jack endangered the universe." She told Mark Swanson that Bay Area dungeons had an 85% occupancy rate, not counting wandering monsters. She also made several other comments to him. She told Matthew Tepper that High Dungeon was the area's banking firm. She commented to Dick Eney about languages. She commented to June Moffatt about her characters and on self-created magic items.
Ted Johnstone asked Lee Gold if the High Abbot's speech could be used for A&E contribution credit.
Mark Swanson advised Hilda Hannifen to buy EMPIRE OF THE PETAL THRONE and said it would probably be out of print soon.
APA-L #535
Roger Hill's second zine told the Moffatts that perhaps a fighter could get "inflicted" by Cure Wounds before going into a dungeon and getting wounded — with the recipient feeling wounded until "cured" by an actual wound.
Hilda Hannifen wrote up a trip she and Owen had had in Jerry Jacks' dungeon. (two pages)
APA-L #536
June Moffatt praised Roger Hill's idea but said there'd have to be some disadvantage to doing it.
Ted Johnstone told Hilda Hannifen that the Traditional Order of (D&D) play was ill-suited to a postal game and explained what he meant. He said he might write up the expedition that her characters had taken in his dungeon for A&E since he needed contribution credit. He told Tom Digby about STAR PROBE, published by TSR. He mentioned what some of his characters were doing and feeling.
Hilda Hannifen told Carl that D&D wasn't the same as Dungeon.
APA-L #537
Lee Gold told Hilda Hannifen she liked that idea of "double damage if you don't go down a level." She told John Hertz that her "bandar-log" came in groups and a single one would probably be called "a monkey."
Dick Eney reminiscenced about his visit to Lee Gold's dungeon (Neocarn). He also discussed the background of his character Brilliant Jade. He told Tom Digby about Jock Root's dungeon and about Lee Gold's "Engineers" (anti-magic users), the parallel to Evil Clerics who are anti-Good Clerics.
Hilda Hannifen commented to herself on Bay Area parties vs Gygax parties.
APA-L Dramatis Personae
TOM DIGBY (lived in Los Angeles):
Tom joined LASFS October 11, 1965.
See conchord.org/xeno/digby/digby.html, www.well.com/~bubbles/
DICK ENEY (lived in the DC area)
boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/person:63378
DAVE FOX (lived in Los Angeles): www.kayshapero.net/Khorlia/khorlia.html#retrospective
VIXEN (FOX): Ellen Fox, Dave's daughter
ALAN FRISBIE (lived in Los Angeles)
computer programmer. Member of LASFS and NESFA.
BARRY GOLD (lived in Los Angeles)
enrolled in CalTech in 1963 (age 16), a the time the youngest student to ever enroll in CalTech. He dropped out a couple of years later and became a computer programmer. He joined LASFS November 11, 1964.
www.conchord.org/xeno/bdgsig.html
LEE GOLD (lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Gold
www.conchord.org/xeno/leegold.html
DAN GOODMAN: Originally from upstate New York (rather than from New York city).
(lived in Los Angeles)
HILDA HANNIFEN (married to Owen Hannifen, later changed her name to Eclare Hannifen)
rpggeek.com/rpgdesigner/63431/hilda-c-hannifen
increment" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">medium.com/increment increment increment increment/the-first-female-gamers-c784fbe3ff37#.xgkawr893
(had lived in Los Angeles but moved to San Francisco)
JACK HARNESS (lived in Los Angeles)
Scientologist.
fancyclopedia.wikidot.com/jack-harness
JOHN HERTZ (lived in Los Angeles)
Scientologist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hertz_%28fan%29
TED JOHNSTONE (David McDaniel, Tedron)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_McDaniel
(had lived in Los Angeles, moved to Pennsylvania)
PAULA LIEBERMAN (lived in Boston)
Her program participant bio for Arisia 2013 notes that she " went to her first convention, which was a worldcon, and college the same weekend. Since then she's been to a bunch more conventions, many of which she's worked on, including Arisia, and has had more career changes than she can remember—military officer, systems engineer, analyst, tech writer, test engineer, market researcher, consultant… "
JUNE MOFFATT (lived in Los Angeles):
fancyclopedia.org/june-moffatt
FUZZY PINK (NIVEN) (lived in Los Angeles): Larry Niven's wife, an MIT graduate
FRED PATTEN(lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Patten
BRUCE PELZ(lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Pelz
MARK SWANSON: Mark joined LASFS June 17, 1971 back when he lived in Pomona, but then went off to Boston to attend MIT and then to seek employment). He was a member of MITSFS (the MIT Science Fiction Society) and MITSGS (the MIT Strategic Gaming Society). He wrote the first APA-Lzine that mentioned Dungeons and Dragons. Later on (after the founding of A&E), Mark would found his own roleplaying game APA: THE WILD HUNT, which he said was aimed not at roleplayers but at Game Masters. Its first issue came out in February, 1976. For awhile Greg Stafford contributed. At first TWH came out monthly, but after awhile it began taking a summer vacation. It also started having an issue Theme (which eventually inspired A&E to have an Ignorable Theme). By 1994 it was no longer around.
GARY SWITZER (Aero Hobbies) (lived in Los Angeles)
www.buzzfile.com/business/Aero-Hobbies-310-828-5264
Later on, A&E was sold at Aero Hobbies on consignment.
MATTHEW TEPPER: Matthew joined LASFS March 27, 1969 as a teenager. He studied Music in college with the hope of becoming a conductor. He lived in Minneapolis for awhile, then moved to San Francisco, and eventually moved back to Los Angeles.
BJO TRIMBLE(lived in Los Angeles)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjo_Trimble
