This is a long post. Sorry, Fin, if I repeat anything you've just posted. I've spent a lot of time trying to track this stuff down and I haven't yet found what I know I found the other day. Geez . . .
In any case, compiled this in MSWord, so the formatting won't look exactly like what you folks may be used to, but I hope that things will be clear enough to be understandable.
My hope is that it will jog Fin's memory and perhaps spur him on to actually doing a document! Yay!
My old group played OD&D for months before the Monster Manual came out and also thereafter. But when the Players Handbook came out, we rushed head-first into Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Fin has played OD&D for MUCH longer than I have, has edited and published a Whitebox clone, and has had a ringside seat to these Forums for a long time. And THAT is why I think his house rules are of interest to me.
Here we go . . .
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www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3077 Re: House Rules - Thief and Stuff Post by Finarvyn » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:02 am
Major snips below
Madness wrote: How do
4: I have long had a thing about the thief class
Realised after making changes to thieves skills that they were all pretty much the same – actually so are the original% scores from Moldvay and the RC minus a few percent here or there, except for the climb walls one. So I did the deed and replaced them all with one skill – thieves craft, keeps it simple like it should be.
Converted thieves skill to a D20 system to keep it in line with rest of game system - must roll equal to or under score to succeed, as with saving throws and ability checks
I did something like this long ago, only called it "Thief Action." Like your system, it was converted into a d20 roll where high is better so that it fits the philosophy of combat and other actions. I did not, however, come to the conclusion that thieves skills are "all pretty much the same" but instead had standard +/- numbers for each type of Thief Action.
As an example (taken from OD&D Supplement I Greyhawk since it's handy) for a 1st level thief Open Locks is listed at 15% so my Thief Action number is an 18 for 1st level. Remove Traps is listed at 10%, so I modify by -1, and so on.
My thief chart looks more like this:
level ... thief action
1 ... 18
2 ... 17
3 ... 16
4 ... 14
5 ... 13
6 ... 12
7 ... 11
8 ... 9
9 ... 7
10 ... 5
11 ... 3
12 ... 1
and with modifications as such:
remove traps or hide in shadows ... -1
open locks ... +0
pickpocket or move silently ... +1
climb walls ... +7*
Not that different a system, but simple enough to use.
*Interesting to note that Greyhawk doesn't seem to include Climb Walls in the thief charts, so I had to make a guess since my RC isn't handy. I think it's +7 but that might be off by a number or so.
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Turning undeadPost by Finarvyn » Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:27 pm
WSmith wrote:
I like the d20 roll idea also. Maybe this is why I prefer the OAD&D method of turn undead to Basic's.
I agree totally! I forgot that they made a dice switch there, but the whole 2d6 thing always seemed limiting. Also, don't forget that the RAVENLOFT setting made undead even harder to turn, hee hee! If undead don't scare the beejezus out of your players, you're doing something wrong.
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Re: Turning undeadPost by Finarvyn » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:56 am
Madness wrote:
Finarvyn, I am curious as to how you did the modifiers, I get the impression that these were probably written on the character sheet, and the player made the modification when he attempted the given action.
Well, my numbers came straight out of Supplement I Greyhawk, except that I exchanged each 5% for +1 to make the numbers more d20-ish rather than percentile.
I have my RC handy now, so I'll give the same example using that rules set instead:
What the book says for level 1 thieves:
find traps, remove traps, hide in shadows (10%)
open locks (15%)
move silently, pick pockets (20%)
hear noise (30%)
climb walls (87%)
Use 10% becomes a 19-20, so my "thief action" number is 19 for a 1st level thief. For other numbers, subtract 10% and then divide by 5. 10% becomes +0, 15% becomes +1, 20% becomes +2, 30% becomes +4, and 87% becomes +15.
Thief Action modifiers:
find traps, remove traps, hide in shadows (+0)
open locks (+1)
move silently, pick pockets (+2)
hear noise (+4)
climb walls (+15)
I should point out that this system is designed to work for any actions that progress by 5% at a time, which means it's fine through 6th level or so in the RC but doesn't work well at all for Climb Walls at any level.
My suggestion is to take a single progression (such as Find Traps, which starts at 10% and stays at 5% jumps for awhile) and base all Thief Action numbers off of this one.
Here we go...
1 ... 19
2 ... 18
3 ... 17
4 ... 16
5 ... 15
6 ... 14
7 ... 13
8 ... 12
9 ... 11
(Now the neat 5% jumps end Calculate by 21-(%/5) to get number for the chart...)
10 ... 10
11 ... 9
12 ... 9
13 ... 8
14 ... 7
15 ... 6
16 ... 6
17 ... 5
18 ... 4
(and so on...)
Hope that helped and wasn't too boring....
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simplify thingsPost by Finarvyn » Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:47 am
Stormcrow wrote:
And . . . all of this is supposed to simplify things?
Okay, so it doesn't LOOK simple, but that's because I spent all that time telling you what I did and how I calculated each "Thief Action" number. Every level thief gets a single TA number, which is modified by the type of action attempted.
Level ... TA
1 ... 19 2 ... 18
3 ... 17 4 ... 16
5 ... 15 6 ... 14
7 ... 13 8 ... 12
9 ... 11 10 ... 10
11 ... 9 12 ... 9
13 ... 8 14 ... 7
15 ... 6 16 ... 6
17 ... 5 18 ... 4
TA modifiers:
find traps, remove traps, hide in shadows (+0)
open locks (+1)
move silently, pick pockets (+2)
hear noise (+4)
climb walls (+15)
Roll a d20, add the TA modifier, and equal or beat the TA for your level.
Look better now?
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Post by Madness » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:17 pm
Longsword wrote:
Sounds good to me.
Are you going to post the thief activity "rules snippet" here when you've finalised the text for it?
Well now, I actually have a test game coming up soon, don't I, yes, in about a week it is, oh goody....And the new rules will then be given a once over play test. Then unless someone says "naff off mate, yer rules are buggered" I will leave em in and will be happy to post em here for other unfortunate souls who can't leave things be. If someone does say "naff off ...", then I may well backtrail and go hide in my little hole, the rules never to see the light of day again.
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Last Try!Post by Finarvyn » Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:21 am
Stormcrow wrote:
Not really. It seems no simpler than just looking up percentages on a table. Or, if you want to use a d20 instead, convert those percentages to 1-20 numbers ahead of time.
Okay, one final try. It occurs to me that we can simplify this even more with only minimal changes to the percentages, and change my TA number into a constant difficulty number to overcome.
Roll a d20, add the thief's level and the modifier, and equal or beat a 20.
Thief Action modifiers:
find traps, remove traps, hide in shadows (+0)
open locks (+1)
move silently, pick pockets (+2)
hear noise (+4)
climb walls (+15)
All you need to write on a character sheet is the list of Thief Action mods!
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odd74.proboards.com/thread/3874/house-rules-od Finarvyn posted on Jun 26, 2007 at 11:34am
From the onset, OD&D has encouraged "house rules". Many of our games involved a DM saying "oh, grab some die and roll it and tell me what it says" with the DM making up a result on the fly based on high/low. Heck, we could have been flipping a coin.
Many of the rules we use in my campaigns have been with us for so long that I can no longer even remember if they are real rules or something we came up with. Those are the best kinds of house rules, because they seem to fit the game so naturally that if they aren't in the rulebook they should have been.
Anyone have any special house rules to share?
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Finarvyn posted on Jun 26, 2007 at 11:37am
I'll start.
Binding WoundsAfter every battle, each player is allowed to roll a d4 to "bind wounds" and recover a few hit points. It is assumed that no character can surpass maximum HP by doing this, and no character can regain more HP than were lost during that battle.
The rationalle here was that in my low-level, low-magic campaigns there were never enough HP or healing potions to go around. This helped keep characters alive and conserve the Cleric spells for later in the adventure when things grew more dire.
I have no idea where we got this rule, but we use it all of the time.
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Finarvyn posted on Jun 26, 2007 at 11:43am
Here's another one:
"Zap" Spell:In my low-level campaigns, some of the Magic-users (okay, my wife) complain that they don't have much to do. They get a couple of spells and then they are done for the adventure.
My solution is a "free" spell called Zap.
1. The mage has to roll to hit with Zap.
2. Zap does d4 damage upon hitting.
3. Essentially, there are no limits to how many of these a character gets.
The net effect is a lot like allowing a Magic-user to use a sling, but it has a more magical "feel".
As an alternate, sometimes I tie the Zap spell in with the Magic-user's wand so that if they lose the wand they lose Zap.
As an alternate, allow the character to have as many Zap spells as they have Intelligence points.
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odd74.proboards.com/thread/7726/house-rule-question-gronan Aug 29, 2012 at 10:03am, bestialwarlust said:
As I've finally seen the light that OD&D is the one true D&D ( i joke ...I kid)Aug 29, 2012 at 4:05pm, Finarvyn replies:
Actually, for me it still is the one true D&D.. ;D
Historically, Dave and Gary didn't always use the same rules as each other. They also didn't stay with the same rules for themsevles. Both liked to "wing it" rather than being restricted by the rulebook. Gary's house rules linked above, for example, don't date back to the 1970's at all but instead go back maybe a decade or so. Heck, Gary spent a lot of time running non-OD&D for many of his later years.
I've run pretty consistent rules for 30+ years. Occasionally I tweak them and with time they have evolved a little, but essentially they haven't changed a lot. (Someday I hope to compile a "how I do it" document.) As long as I can remember, I've used a few house rules probably swiped from EPT or Judges Guild products:
• Binding wounds. I allow characters to regain 1d4 hit points after a battle. (They can't regain more than they lost.)
• Wizards and the "zap" spell. Magic-users get an attack similar to using a bow, only it's a magic point-and-fire attack from their hand or staff. Not an automatic hit. One attack per round. I count it as a zero-level cantrip with no need to memorize, no upper limit on how many to cast.
• Double damage on a natural 20, fumble on a natural 1.
• I use a d12 plus dex modifier for initiative. Gives me another reason to use the d12, which is one of my favorite dice.
• I've used an ascending Armor Class number since the early 1980's instead of the OD&D descending model.
• I prefer the B/X stat modifiers, which range from -3 (for a 3) to +3 (for an 18) instead of the OD&D ones.
My newest house rules sets I'm tinkering with have a few evolutions:
• I've replaced Fighting Capability with multiple attacks and a "basic attack bonus" instead of a chart. (Recall that one version of the OD&D rules gives an attack per HD versus wimpy monsters or a single attack against supernatural monsters; my system kind of blends this together.
• I've added in spell points instead of total spell numbers. This avoids a lot of the "oops, didn't memorize that spell today" effect.
• I've added in half-levels for more rapid advancement without absurd power inflation. (Then I renumbered them so players don't get confused by being level 3.5 or something like that.
I think I have threads on each of those tweaks, for anyone interested. If not, I can start new ones...
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odd74.proboards.com/thread/9857/organizing-rules-stuff Finarvyn on “Organizing Your Rules and Stuff” Apr 2, 2014 at 6:40am
Mostly those things end up either stuck in my brain or on scraps of paper. If it's a table it gets clipped to my GM screen. If it's in a book I toss the book into my backpack, just in case I need it. I keep intending to put together a house rules set, but never really get around to it.
Of course, my years of OD&D have taught me to be a "rules minimalist" and most of my rules aren't that complex. Some of my notes look like "bind wounds after combat for 1d4 healing" or "treat drow PC like elves."
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www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68247 Re: First OD&D House Rules/Clarifications
Alex » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:49 pm
Sounds like AD&D-lite. The issue I'd point out is that you are pulling in material from a lot of sources. How will players know what they can do/chose when they have so many places to look for information?
Why are you limiting exceptional strength? Creating characters from the rules in M&M, even rerolling all 1s, will only result in exceptional strength 1-in-125 times a character is created. And with only one value possible higher than 18 (as 18/01-18/50 are identical to 18) you could more easily eliminate exceptional strength entirely than use it with limitations.
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Finarvyn » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:27 am
I think Alex is spot on here. By the time you add all of those parts you're on the verge of AD&D, except that AD&D is organized better.
For me, OD&D is about simplicity. Keep class options simple, such as the three from M&M plus the thief. Don't add in extra combat rules. Start out with as few sources as possible. You can always add in additional material if needed. That's more like what we did back in the day.
On the other hand, what you have is fine if that's the way you like to play it. Looks like you've put thought into which rules you like and dislike, so go with it! 8)
Marv / Finarvyn
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