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Post by Finarvyn on Jul 20, 2023 9:48:52 GMT -6
I'm not mad at D&D. I may be angry with some of the folks at WotC/Hasbro and their decisions which are intended to bleed money from the fans, but the game isn't the same as the people. D&D (the game) has treated me well for nearly five decades even if the various businessmen in charge of the company haven't.
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Post by ochrejelly on Jul 20, 2023 14:08:39 GMT -6
I can't get over it. The betrayal over the OGL made me very angry, and I am still mad at Dungeons & Dragons about it. It makes no sense in any rational sort of way. WotC did one better than the OGL by way of apology. But I still won't grab free 5e stuff from DriveThruRPG, which was kind of a hobby of mine, because of it. What is wrong with me? Your feelings are valid, a lot of people felt betrayed by it. As to why they would do it, I think others touched on that enough. At the end of the day WoTC is a business that has people to feed and bills to pay, and fun to have. They thought they were making a good business decision, whether it be for profit or security of future content. It turned out to be really bad for them. Personally I haven't had strong feelings either way, it didn't surprise me that this might happen at some point. I still appreciate that they have kept D&D alive and relevant, they pretty much resuscitated it at one point. I think if there is content that you like, get it. If you like playing 5e, don't stop playing it. When I heard of some people dropping their 5e groups over this or getting rid of all their books, I found that more shocking than the company's decision. It's less that they have people to feed and bills to pay, it's more that they are legally bound to show more profit than they did last year to their stock holders. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 20, 2023 16:34:57 GMT -6
I still appreciate that they have kept D&D alive and relevant, they pretty much resuscitated it at one point. have not kept D&D alive. It's US, the players and the fans, that have kept D&D alive, and will continue to keep D&D alive. We are D&D. |
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Post by rainflower on Jul 20, 2023 16:55:11 GMT -6
I still appreciate that they have kept D&D alive and relevant, they pretty much resuscitated it at one point. have not kept D&D alive. It's US, the players and the fans, that have kept D&D alive, and will continue to keep D&D alive. We are D&D. I get that, but without the marketing and business choices they made, D&D wouldn't be competitive in the RPG market. A company does have to do things to stay relevant and keep players like us interested. They also have to find new players and compete with market saturation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 17:12:25 GMT -6
I still appreciate that they have kept D&D alive and relevant, they pretty much resuscitated it at one point. have not kept D&D alive. It's US, the players and the fans, that have kept D&D alive, and will continue to keep D&D alive. We are D&D. For if not us, then who? |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 20, 2023 17:15:36 GMT -6
They do that stuff to keep the company relevant, not the product.
That's exactly why they can/will swap D&D out for a digital-only-micro-transaction-platform-with-D&D-label-slapped-on: they're switching out the product to keep the company relevant.
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Post by blindaudelay on Jul 20, 2023 17:27:12 GMT -6
The virtual tabletop that WotC presented at their summit was really... something.
I remember their last failed attempt during the 4e days.
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Post by thorswulf on Jul 20, 2023 17:52:31 GMT -6
WOTC, WOTC, WOTC, Hasbro, Hasbro, Hasbro, TSR,TSR,TSR, blah, blah, blah..... I'm not listening, I'm rolling my dice for initiative! Seriously though, through all the corporate/business BS that the game and we have endured, feel how you like. I simply know for a fact that despite inflation and all the other cost rising issues, I'll still play D&D, or CoC, or T&T, or whatever. Not only has the game changed and evolved over the past FIFTY YEARS, but guess what? We do too. I find myself playing more miniatures games as that has always been my heart's delight. I won't go virtual tabletop, as I don't want to or need to. I like the feel of a handful of dice and the heft of lead figures!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2023 20:10:05 GMT -6
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Post by robertsconley on Jul 21, 2023 13:05:43 GMT -6
Nothing, what Wizards did was a dick move. The CC-BY licensed SRD doesn't make up for it. The OGL is effectively a dead license walking and it will a few years for it all to shake out. |
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Post by robertsconley on Jul 21, 2023 13:13:14 GMT -6
I'd be interested to understand what "it worked out" was intended to mean? They released the SRD under a Creative Commons license that cannot be revoked. That helps but we really need is for the d20 SRD to be released as CC-BY. And the situation still wrecks usage of all the OGL open content that was released by authors no longer in business or just plain not around anymore to change the license on that material. |
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Parzival
Level 6 Magician
Is a little Stir Crazy this year...
Posts: 399
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Post by Parzival on Jul 21, 2023 14:28:18 GMT -6
You can celebrate all the old school TSR stuff this week during DriveThruRPG’s “Christmas in July” sale. There are over 1300 D&D titles in the sale, which cross all versions of the game, from OD&D to WotC 4e (bleh), and even some 5e accessories.. Most are 1e and 2e stuff, but Classic products are well represented. No Holmes still, but WotC has scanned in a ton of stuff. (And there are also scans of Gamma World editions 1-4, Boot Hill 2 &3, Star Frontiers and even one old Avalon Hill card game???).
Why would you do this? To show WotC where your money goes, and thus encourage continued support for maintaining this database of TSR works, and maybe add some more.
Of course, other publishers are part of this sale too, so there’s third party stuff to be had as well.
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 21, 2023 15:33:46 GMT -6
They released the SRD under a Creative Commons license that cannot be revoked. That helps but we really need is for the d20 SRD to be released as CC-BY. And the situation still wrecks usage of all the OGL open content that was released by authors no longer in business or just plain not around anymore to change the license on that material. Oh, I agree, The entire SRD from 3.0/3.5 is the really important doc that needs to be CC. I am in the process of rewriting it in my own words so I have a base text to work with moving forward. Part of my Gateway Roleplaying Game I've mentioned here a few times. An OGL free OSR game. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jul 21, 2023 19:56:04 GMT -6
That helps but we really need is for the d20 SRD to be released as CC-BY. And the situation still wrecks usage of all the OGL open content that was released by authors no longer in business or just plain not around anymore to change the license on that material. To be more specific: what OD&D-related micro publishers really need is the 3.5e SRD released as CC-BY. Oh, I agree, The entire SRD from 3.0/3.5 is the really important doc that needs to be CC. Yes, this is what OD&D-related micro publishers need. |
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Post by robertsconley on Jul 21, 2023 20:24:32 GMT -6
To be more specific: what OD&D-related micro publishers really need is the 3.5e SRD released as CC-BY. Do we in the case of OD&D? Don't get me wrong I want the D20-SRD under CC-BY. Because of the existing content where the license can't be changed. But the biggest threat to any of the OD&D Clones isn't that we are copying the mechanics. But we are copying lists of terms. Spell names, monster names, etc. While elements of these lists are in the public domain and other are generic everyday words. It could be a problem when an entire list of names is copied. Like making a monopoly clone (OK) but with the same street names and property values (probably not OK). However, I checked the D&D 5e SRD and it has all the names and terms one needs for a CC-BY OD&D Clone. Is there anything missing that only found in the D20-SRD? I can see it being a issue for a AD&D clone as the 5e SRD monster list is not as extensive as the D20 Monster List. |
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Post by samvandenberg on Jul 31, 2023 19:14:39 GMT -6
I can't get over it. The betrayal over the OGL made me very angry, and I am still mad at Dungeons & Dragons about it. It makes no sense in any rational sort of way. WotC did one better than the OGL by way of apology. But I still won't grab free 5e stuff from DriveThruRPG, which was kind of a hobby of mine, because of it. What is wrong with me? I also get mad about this stuff, but I try to remember the commercial products are actually a very small part of Dungeons & Dragons. The game really happens between friends. The stuff you can't buy is the most important part. Those things are so far beyond ownership and commerce. In that sense, I could never be mad at the actual, wonderful game of D&D. |
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Post by tdenmark on Jul 31, 2023 20:08:28 GMT -6
the commercial products are actually a very small part of Dungeons & Dragons. The game really happens between friends. The stuff you can't buy is the most important part. This is the truth. |
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Post by Mordorandor on Aug 5, 2023 19:47:40 GMT -6
I grew up on AD&D1 after getting my taste buds going on Moldvay.
When 3e and 3.5 evolved into the apex of what (I, at the time believed) AD&D1 was meant to be, I grew weary of the rules-based approach. Rules for everything.
I found OD&D and have never looked back.
So when I run my version of the OD&D game, Sword & Spell, I run it for those who have only known 3e, 4e, or 5e, and they have always said the approach, though maybe not my refereeing/adjudicating, has been refreshing.
There's a whole market out there that doesn't know what roleplaying can be outside the official packaging.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ...."
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 8, 2023 7:58:16 GMT -6
ADMIN NOTE: The lengthy back-and-forth discussion between waysoftheearth and Parzival has been moved to another thread, called "Making an OD&D SRD." A few of the "Mad At" posts in the middle have been extracted and returned to this thread. Hopefully both threads make sense now.
Additional pursuit of this conversation should be directed there.  odd74.proboards.com/thread/16066/od-srd
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 8, 2023 17:26:08 GMT -6
ADMIN NOTE: The lengthy back-and-forth discussion between waysoftheearth and Parzival has been moved to another thread, called "Making an OD&D SRD." A few of the "Mad At" posts in the middle have been extracted and returned to this thread. Hopefully both threads make sense now.
Additional pursuit of this conversation should be directed there. odd74.proboards.com/thread/16066/od-srd Good idea, it is a fascinating discussion. |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 8, 2023 19:58:31 GMT -6
I was really enjoying that discussion. I felt very happy that my childish outburst triggered such a cerebral interaction.
I'm still mad at Dungeons & Dragons. But I saw something the other day that WOTC did that made me less mad. Except I can't remember what it was.
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 9, 2023 14:56:58 GMT -6
I was really enjoying that discussion. I felt very happy that my childish outburst triggered such a cerebral interaction. I'm still mad at Dungeons & Dragons. But I saw something the other day that WOTC did that made me less mad. Except I can't remember what it was. Interesting because the other day I saw something WotC did that made me even more angry. And I remember exactly what it was. |
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Parzival
Level 6 Magician
Is a little Stir Crazy this year...
Posts: 399
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Post by Parzival on Aug 9, 2023 17:42:48 GMT -6
I’m glad that others have enjoyed my “gnaw that bone to a nub” mentality! (And I’m a little stunned that they have.)
If I were a greyhound, I’d still be on the racetrack trying to nab that fake rabbit.
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