Why was Shiva left out of AD&D's Deities & Demigods?

[Deleted]

Does anyone know? And, what about Mitra? Or, Rome's Laverna?

[hamurai]

Is there a reason why they should be included?

I guess they had to draw the line at some point.

Apart from Shiva, they are not in my OD&D D&DG either.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I just reviewed a copy of Deities Demigods and Heroes which features writeups for both Shiva and Mitra (under Conan gods). Now I recall the second Indiana Jones with its lost Shiva stones and evil Kali cult. Laverna was not included in the supplement, but can you have too many gods or goddesses of thieves in the fantasy campaign milieu?

[hamurai]

I honestly never understood why folks would need stats for those deities. My approach had always been that they're gods and therefore beyond the stats of mortals. Demigods and heroes, that's another thing.

The fluff part of the gods is far more interesting to me.

I generally don't include RL deities in my games unless I'm trying a "historical" setting. These days I find it more interesting to come up with one or two deities and let the players add in the rest.

[Deleted]

May 11, 2023 22:01:29 GMT -6 hamurai said:

I honestly never understood why folks would need stats for those deities. My approach had always been that they're gods and therefore beyond the stats of mortals. Demigods and heroes, that's another thing.

For adventurers who would have a go at gods, goddesses, or the cosmos, anyway, check out Calithena, Marsh, Steve (Winter, 2011). “Heroquests,” Fight On! magazine, Issue 11, pp. 71 - 73.

[hamurai]

Sure, I get that some people play these scenarios. It just never felt reasonable to me, but that may be my personal taste. I'll check that module, maybe I'll see the appeal.

[Deleted]

I tend to agree. I can remember first picking up Deities & Demigods; I hadn't seen Gods Demigods and Heroes. What a rush!

[Parzival]

I would suspect it’s because Shiva is part of an active real world faith— Hinduism— which is followed and practiced by millions of people.
So Shiva is not in a DDG product for the same reason that the central figures of Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, etc. are not included: to billions of people, they are not myths, but sacred truths.

I think leaving these out was a wise decision, especially considering what happened later with the Satanic Panic!

I will say that I think Temple of Doom tread perilously close to risking offense towards followers of Hinduism, even though I know little about the faith. But perhaps like Raiders and Last Crusade, the depiction of the deity’s power was depicted as real and opposed to evil, and so could be accepted by viewers of the central faiths linked to the story.

Nobody is likely to be offended by treatments of Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, Celtic and similar essentially abandoned pantheons. Nobody believes in them.

[stevemitchell]

I take your point, but it's worth noting that followers of Asatru might want to dispute your "Nobody believes in them" comment with reference to the Norse deities.

[Parzival]

May 19, 2023 14:13:35 GMT -6 stevemitchell said:

I take your point, but it's worth noting that followers of Asatru might want to dispute your "Nobody believes in them" comment with reference to the Norse deities.

Never heard of ‘em. Looked ‘em up. Interesting, I guess.

But in any case, they don’t have the power bloc or cultural presence in the market that others do. That’s what a game company is concerned about. You don’t want to offend your market, but it’s unlikely this group would either be offended, or be a significant portion of the market, or have any public sway whatsoever over the larger market. So that one’s kinda moot.

But I sold off my 1e DDG book years ago (alas, as I had the 1st printing with the rights violations…). I had determined it was interesting but hardly useful in a gaming sense. The most I ever did was use it to select a god for a Paladin character. After that, it sat on the shelf.