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Post by jeffb on Mar 2, 2023 6:40:29 GMT -6
I'm sure there are some people here who see him as some kind of anti-Gygax, but I'm a big fan of his game work (especially his initial realms works) and he seems like a pretty cool/fun guy (as cool as can be said for a nerdy D&D author/librarian). Only a couple of videos so far, but they both are very interesting if you are remotely interested in FR. I'm amazed at how he just can talk about his creations like he's talking about the real world when posed with "what ifs?" from the interviewer. www.youtube.com/channel/UCWUpsVewUNXe6BSTh3u1wEw |
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Post by machfront on Mar 2, 2023 7:44:07 GMT -6
Creative dude.
But…I just never got it. Thus, never fully understood the appeal (of the early Dragon stuff nor the FR setting).
To be fair, I never ‘get’ nor ‘understand’ anyone nor anything that is super, crazy detailed at all.
I guess I’m one of those who thinks the “Wilderland” map in The Hobbit with little to no info about it, is much more enticing and fun than “the Known World” in B/X, let alone RC and the Gaz supplements…
Or maybe I’m boring. Haha!
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Post by jeffb on Mar 2, 2023 8:13:49 GMT -6
I prefer his and Jeff's original FR setting. Which was just a big sandbox with way more unknown, than known on the map(s).
Unfortunately TSR ran it into the ground by the end of 2E and WOTC have done it no favors since.
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Post by machfront on Mar 2, 2023 8:45:49 GMT -6
Yeah, I’ve wondered about and kinda wanted to procure the AD&D1E setting box set as it may be slightly digestible to me, but…sheesh….prices online, ya know?…
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Post by jeffb on Mar 2, 2023 9:48:00 GMT -6
Yeah, I’ve wondered about and kinda wanted to procure the AD&D1E setting box set as it may be slightly digestible to me, but…sheesh….prices online, ya know?… I do know. In my collecting days I had a few sets. Sold them, and just kept a near pristine copy sans box for actual use. I could get for one set today, what I got for four of them back then, if not more. It's worth picking up the PDF if you don't mind supporting The Regime with a few bucks. |
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Post by tkdco2 on Mar 5, 2023 13:54:22 GMT -6
I watched a couple of Greenwood's videos. Forgotten Realms is my favorite setting, taking the place of Dragonlance. Unfortunately, it got overdeveloped. I actually didn't get into it until 3E was in place, but I mainly have the 2E stuff anyway, with a few 1E and 3E products. I did get the original boxed set eventually, while it was still "uncool" to play earlier editions.
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Post by tkdco2 on Mar 5, 2023 13:57:43 GMT -6
I prefer his and Jeff's original FR setting. Which was just a big sandbox with way more unknown, than known on the map(s). Unfortunately TSR ran it into the ground by the end of 2E and WOTC have done it no favors since. A lot of the fans aren't helping either. Some of them make Middle-earth purists look laid back. I find it easier to DM the Realms for folks who aren't too familiar with it. |
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 5, 2023 14:37:07 GMT -6
I prefer his and Jeff's original FR setting. Which was just a big sandbox with way more unknown, than known on the map(s). Unfortunately TSR ran it into the ground by the end of 2E and WOTC have done it no favors since. A lot of the fans aren't helping either. Some of them make Middle-earth purists look laid back. I find it easier to DM the Realms for folks who aren't too familiar with it. I don't know. I really love the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms campaign book.  |
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Post by jeffb on Mar 5, 2023 15:08:37 GMT -6
A lot of the fans aren't helping either. Some of them make Middle-earth purists look laid back. I find it easier to DM the Realms for folks who aren't too familiar with it. I don't know. I really love the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms campaign book. As a product, I think it's s great, but the devil is in the details. New edition and they are ret-conning everything in the setting to make up for the huge differences in 2e to 3e rules and several high profile novels. Dwarven birth rates are skyrocketing and oh yeah..there were always tons of Dwarven wizards, you just never saw them before. :cough: And yep, lots more Elves. All those one we said were leaving/had left for evermeet which is a key story element to places like the Dalelands and totally changes the dynamics of the region? ? :shrug: :handwave: Similar poor excuses for a bunch of rules changes and novel canon..more good playable drow, and now their own pantheon! genasai and other outsiders become commonplace. The Red Wizards of Thay are now just a bunch of potion pushers with enclaves in all the major cities, despite them being unwelcome nearly everywhere before. Not to mention the massive shift to the new 3.0 dungeonpunk aesthetic vs. The older Renaissance and late medieval vibe. People complain about the 1e to 2e shift, but the changes were actually far greater from 2e to 3E in the setting. I'm not a Canon freak, but when you start changing the underlying fundamentals/foundation of a setting to suit your new edition rules (like they did with everything for 5e and for 4E realms) I get annoyed. At least with FTA Greyhawk, they took already existing plot lines, hints of the future and history and built out a plausible future for the majority of changes. With FR, they always just handwave and come up with crap excuses. |
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 5, 2023 19:08:30 GMT -6
I'm not a Canon freak, but when you start changing the underlying fundamentals/foundation of a setting to suit your new edition rules (like they did with everything for 5e and for 4E realms) I get annoyed. At least with FTA Greyhawk, they took already existing plot lines, hints of the future and history and built out a plausible future for the majority of changes. With FR, they always just handwave and come up with crap excuses. I get where you are coming from. While I like Forgotten Realms, I was never a big enough fan to be caught up in the tonal shift of the setting from edition to edition. I can relate by comparing it to what Disney has done to Star Wars, absolutely destroying the setting forever with utter disregard for the history, tone, and details of that galaxy. Every time they announced a new Star Wars show "set in a brand new never known before part of the galaxy" I read that as "we don't like Star Wars and are too lazy to learn the lore and what the fans love, so we are going to make our own space opera and call it Star Wars because we can." And I agree, the dungeon punk aesthetic of 3.0 sucked. |
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Post by tkdco2 on Mar 5, 2023 20:16:48 GMT -6
I have the 3rd Edition FR book. It is a great product, one of the few d20 products I actually like. Still, I'd stick to 2nd Edition or older for my games.
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Post by geoffrey on Mar 5, 2023 22:01:25 GMT -6
I guess I’m one of those who thinks the “Wilderland” map in The Hobbit with little to no info about it, is much more enticing and fun than “the Known World” in B/X, let alone RC and the Gaz supplements… I love the Wilderland map in The Hobbit. Best D&D setting ever (as long as you remember to fill it up with all sorts of D&Disms, such as purple worms).  |
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Post by jeffb on Mar 6, 2023 6:28:36 GMT -6
I'm not a Canon freak, but when you start changing the underlying fundamentals/foundation of a setting to suit your new edition rules (like they did with everything for 5e and for 4E realms) I get annoyed. At least with FTA Greyhawk, they took already existing plot lines, hints of the future and history and built out a plausible future for the majority of changes. With FR, they always just handwave and come up with crap excuses. I get where you are coming from. While I like Forgotten Realms, I was never a big enough fan to be caught up in the tonal shift of the setting from edition to edition. I can relate by comparing it to what Disney has done to Star Wars, absolutely destroying the setting forever with utter disregard for the history, tone, and details of that galaxy. Every time they announced a new Star Wars show "set in a brand new never known before part of the galaxy" I read that as "we don't like Star Wars and are too lazy to learn the lore and what the fans love, so we are going to make our own space opera and call it Star Wars because we can." And I agree, the dungeon punk aesthetic of 3.0 sucked. Disney Star Wars is a great comparison: No love for the characters or the lore and themes that make the setting what it is. |
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Post by tkdco2 on Mar 6, 2023 12:43:26 GMT -6
I tell my players the only canon is what happens at the table; everything else is open to interpretation. I'm okay with the Time of Troubles, but the Spellplague will never happen in my game. The Realms may suffer from overdevelopment, but I can use whatever details I like in my game.
I will stick to 2E when I run the games, with a few 1E additions. I'd start the game using the 2E timeline and go from there. The notable characters may make the odd cameo appearance, but by and large they'll have more important things to do than interact with the PCs, at least until the characters become more powerful.
I agree that the art in the 3E books sucks. I hated the look ever since I saw the character illustrations. Subsequent editions haven't improved.
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 6, 2023 17:10:22 GMT -6
Disney Star Wars is a great comparison: No love for the characters or the lore and themes that make the setting what it is. When hiring writers they avoid writers who are fans of the material, they consider that a red flag. That they will be difficult to work with. That, on top of other considerations that are...socio-political. |
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Post by jeffb on Mar 6, 2023 18:08:33 GMT -6
I tell my players the only canon is what happens at the table; everything else is open to interpretation. I'm okay with the Time of Troubles, but the Spellplague will never happen in my game. The Realms may suffer from overdevelopment, but I can use whatever details I like in my game. I will stick to 2E when I run the games, with a few 1E additions. I'd start the game using the 2E timeline and go from there. The notable characters may make the odd cameo appearance, but by and large they'll have more important things to do than interact with the PCs, at least until the characters become more powerful. I agree that the art in the 3E books sucks. I hated the look ever since I saw the character illustrations. Subsequent editions haven't improved. I generally start off a Realms campaign in 1348 DR, which is 10 years before the "beginning" of the 1E Timeline @ 1358 (and within the year or so, the ToT would occur) for two big reasons. 1) Huge fan of the Pool of Radiance computer game. It was my first exposure to the FR (I wasn't TTRPGing at the time). I loved all the lore presented in the game manuals/hintbook and whatnot. POR takes place during 1348.The Moonsea/Phlan area is a really good but often overlooked area for FR games, and so the PCs have the option of getting involved in my own take on the POR adventures in that area. 2) The 1E DMs book for the FR box set has a large section of news and plots that has occurred month by month in the recent past few years (1356- ish up until the start of 1358) to give DM's food for thought. Many of the ideas and scenarios presented are excellent for hooks and a sandbox type game, but I hated that all that cool stuff had been assumed to have already happened! Screw that. I'm using it.  The only thing Canon in my games is what I feel like making Canon. I pull some bits from a various number of supplements, mostly 1E and 2E but also some 3E and 4E books too. I kind of rewrote the 2E to 3E transition at the time it occurred for a campaign I ran in 3.0. I have a writeup somewhere in a .doc. I should dig it up. |
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Post by jeffb on Mar 12, 2023 6:44:55 GMT -6
Interesting discussion on "magic" including some bits where TSR "unbalanced" magic or changed Ed's ideas for the novel writers. Some interesting discussion on Deities as well (and of course what was intended and what ended up being produced, was not the same) youtu.be/CXFbgsFy1Xc |
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Post by jeffb on Mar 17, 2023 16:34:52 GMT -6
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