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Post by Finarvyn on Jan 23, 2023 13:15:09 GMT -6
Monte Cook's "Cypher System" RPG. Not playing the thing, but reading the sourcebooks.  I have no idea how the game plays. It seems to be a universal system which is designed to fit any setting Sort of like GURPS, but a lot more fun to read. What I have been doing is collecting some of the sourcebooks. At the moment I own three: (1) "We are all Mad here" is a sourcebook about running fairy tale games. The book is full of ideas that (I think) could be stuck into whatever rules set you want. Brothers Grimm fairy tales, Disney fairy tales, humorous, scary, romantic, whatever. Just ideas on what those settings are like and how to run games that fit those ideas. (2) "Stay Alive!" is as horror sourcebook. Aliens, creepy dolls, haunted houses, and more. They are all in there. Like the fairy tale one, this book is just full of ideas about all sorts of horror campaigns, how to run them, what kinds of things to expect, and so on. (3) "God Forsaken" is the fantasy sourcebook for the system, and probably the least cool of the three so far, but it talks about different styles of fantasy play. There is also a scifi book, a superhero book, one about first responders (firemen, paramedics), and it looks like a couple more in kickstart. One of the new ones is post apocalyptic and the other is called "It's Only Magic" and I'm not sure if that one is a setting book or ideas about magic systems but I'm sure my wife will want me to buy a copy when it comes out. The core rulebook looks pretty hefty and I've avoided buying it so far because I want the sourcebooks for the ideas instead of the actual rules. There is a free quick play rulebook you can download on Monte Cook's site, however, and that may give a person enough of a glimpse into the rules. I downloaded it thinking that I might run into vocab in the sourcebooks that I didn't understand, but so far not much need for it. It's possible that Numenaria and "The Strange" are part of this same rules system. Not sure. I owned the Numeraria starter box at one point and it looked pretty but I don't recall the system grabbing me much. Anyone have experience with this system or these sourcebooks? Discuss. |
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Post by dwayanu on Jan 23, 2023 14:22:49 GMT -6
I have no firsthand familiarity, so this is what I’ve gleaned online.
My understanding is that it’s the system originally created for Numenera and used again in The Strange. It looks to be pretty simple at core, with a lot of skills and powers and such to add up to more interesting permutations. I think there’s some special attention to maneuvers involving teamwork, and a metacurrency to facilitate occasional actions with more assurance of results.
If you still have Numenera, that might also be worth a look through as a sourcebook apart from the system. Like 13th Age, it appears to be tapping the vein of Zothique, the Dying Earth, the Pastel City and such.
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Post by hamurai on Jan 23, 2023 14:27:03 GMT -6
It's a really quick game system and easy to adapt to any setting, really. We've played Cyberpunk, Warhammer, and several pre-defined Cypher Settings (The Strange, Numenera) and it worked nicely. The amount of character development is limited in the vanilla game, though. The idea is to value story and exploration above numbers.
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phantomtim
Level 3 Conjurer
13th Age Enthusiast
Posts: 85 
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Post by phantomtim on Jan 23, 2023 17:31:01 GMT -6
As others have mentioned both Numenera and The Strange use the Cypher System as the core system. It's pretty lightweight, despite being packaged in a large book. Players do all the rolls. It uses a d20 for task resolution. You basically take the difficulty, multiply by 3, and that's the number you need to hit on the d20 roll. Modifiers impact the difficulty before the final target number is determined, so you figure out any penalties or bonuses, then multiply that final outcome by 3. Keeps it pretty straightforward.
There are some things I didn't love, such as XP being a meta-currency that is also used as a type of benny. I don't care for having to choose between tactical needs vs. strategic. I'm the type of player who will choose strategic every time, making sure I don't slow my character's progression, unless I believe PC death is the outcome. I've seen this house-ruled via using two different pools (XP for progression, bennies for moments of player agency).
It has a mechanic called a GM Intrusion, similar to the GM invoking a PC's Aspects in FATE. That helped me create better complications on icon advantage rolls in my 13th Age games.
The settings are imaginative and nicely illustrated. I've pulled inspiration from them for my 13th Age games, but haven't returned to the core game system, itself. That's totally a preference thing, and you might love it. I recommend giving it a try.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jan 23, 2023 18:02:54 GMT -6
It uses a d20 for task resolution. You basically take the difficulty, multiply by 3, and that's the number you need to hit on the d20 roll. Modifiers impact the difficulty before the final target number is determined, so you figure out any penalties or bonuses, then multiply that final outcome by 3. Keeps it pretty straightforward. Sounds like I could omit the "multiply by 3" step, omit (or maybe scale back) "modifiers", and then just throw a d6? |
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Post by hamurai on Jan 23, 2023 23:07:01 GMT -6
It uses a d20 for task resolution. You basically take the difficulty, multiply by 3, and that's the number you need to hit on the d20 roll. Modifiers impact the difficulty before the final target number is determined, so you figure out any penalties or bonuses, then multiply that final outcome by 3. Keeps it pretty straightforward. Sounds like I could omit the "multiply by 3" step, omit (or maybe scale back) "modifiers", and then just throw a d6? There are some factors which might reduce the Target Number by 1 or 2. It's not often though, usually you reduce your difficulty step and reduce it, then it's multiplied by 3. You also get to choose special results for rolling a 20, and in combat when you roll 17-20, the higher the better. In combat you can mostly boost your damage, or with 19 and 20 maybe disarm, cripple, or otherwise gain an effect. Rolling a 1 means the GM can use an "Intrusion", which was already mentioned. They can introduce a complication to the situation, like the character dropping their weapon, an enemy thought dead rallies, etc. Very basically, you're right, though! "No, Thank You, Evil!" is the related game for kids which uses a d6 and similar mechanics, though less complicated. I'd advise against using the d6 mechanic for the Cypher games, though, as you'd lose all the special rolls or get them too often. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jan 23, 2023 23:15:32 GMT -6
Thanks hamuraiCan you really get those special results too often? |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jan 23, 2023 23:16:28 GMT -6
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Post by hamurai on Jan 23, 2023 23:36:05 GMT -6
(3) "God Forsaken" is the fantasy sourcebook for the system, and probably the least cool of the three so far, but it talks about different styles of fantasy play. That was actually not that bad! I haven't played this setting, but from reading it, I'd say it's a nice non-standard, dark fantasy setting. I'd also like to add the (older) "Predation" setting book to your list. If you remember Dino Riders, you know a lot about the setting. We've played a one-shot and it was fun. Another setting from the older Worlds of the Cypher System Kickstarter is "Gods from the Fall" where the PCs take on characters who have the spark of the gods in them, and try to rekindle the flames. It's a rather special setting which didn't really click with my group back then. The Superhero setting "Unmasked" is not the generic Superhero thing, it's about teenagers who just got their powers, so play would probably include a lot of role-playing about how to continue to live their lives with the powers. One of the stretch goals in said KS was "Expanded Worlds" which had lots of ideas for homebrew settings. But I believe the second edition core book and the new setting books include include all the info you'd find in Expanded Worlds. My personal experience with the system in short: * As a GM I really liked it. I like rolling the dice, but not rolling in between allowed me to spin the story undisturbed and I remember once when playing Numenera, I was so caught in telling the story and my players were listening so intently, we just forgot to roll. * As a GM, I really like how adventures are presented. VERY open, only the major plot points are given but you can switch many of them if you want. The modules give advice on what it possible there. My one-shot adventures fit on 2 pages which I just tucked into my DM screen. Not much game downtime spent on reading. * As a GM introducing friends to the setting, I liked how quickly we were able to start. We tried Warhammer Fantasy RPG with the Cypher System, I pre-selected a couple of things for the players to choose from, they filled in some numbers and we played several hours on the first evening afterwards. * As a player, I liked character creation. Basically, you combine a "class" and a Focus, which is your special - you could combine a "caster" class with a Focus like "Possesses a Shard of the Sun" and be a cleric of light, or a flaming wizard; or combine the same Focus with a "warrior" class and get a paladin with a flaming sword etc. (I'm using D&D references but of course you can do whatever you like, dependign on the setting.) * As a player, I liked the easy rules. I made reference cards with the main rules on a paper the size of a business card, combat rules on the back. * As a player, I liked the resource management aspect of using special powers. You have 3 stats in the game, special powers use stat points to activate, but enemy attacks reduce these stat pools as well. * As player and GM I realized that advancement wasn't meant to cover huge campaigns. There are basically 6 levels, each accomplished by advancing 4 stats with XP. There are optional rules for continuous advancement after Level 6, but as far as I remember, they bascially mean you either lose your powers and start over with a new Focus, or you add a new Focus on top which could break game balance when you play with power-gamers. That said, even in our Numenera campaign we never got past Level 4, which took a while. I trust Monte Cook Games here, that probably works after all. * Some players disliked the player-faced rolls, arguing that if an enemy misses or hits was just GM will. True, but if you want randomness, you can easily just roll a die and use the result as you like. |
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Post by hamurai on Jan 23, 2023 23:38:27 GMT -6
Thanks hamurai Can you really get those special results too often? Well, if you use a d6 and use the 6 as the special result, they'd all be the same - and then, which do you use? 17-20 all have slightly different specials in combat, which would be subsumed in the roll of 6. If you rule you get a special on 5 and 6, the chance to get one increases quickly. Of course, if you like to speed up combat and give players an advantage, that's an option. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Jan 24, 2023 0:14:40 GMT -6
Mmm. I had assumed that a special was an opportunity for the player to ad-lib some kinda of favourable flourish or extra goodness.
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Post by hamurai on Jan 24, 2023 9:27:26 GMT -6
Of course that's what you can also do. In combat situations, different specials trigger from 17-20, the higher the better. You can then choose between additional damage or minor or major effects, which can generally be disarming the enemy, throwing them down, cornering them, breaking a hold/enchantment etc, or anything that fits the situation.
For example, in our Numenera campaign one of our group hit a phasing creature with a natural 20, which can trigger a major effect. The creature possessed the phasing ability because of some tech in its body, and the player decided that the hit damaged this tech and the creature lost the ability, making it easier to hit for the rest of the group. The GM went with that and after the second natural 20 from another character, we together thought it'd be interesting to see what happened if that phasing tech malfunctioned. So it did, and the creature went in and out of phase without control, unable to attack or interact much with its environment. Our stereotype warrior player decided that this won't be a real victory and he wanted to attack again, to make sure the thing is dead. He rolled a natural 1, so the GM was allowed to bring into play an Intrusion, so the attack actually struck the creature exactly when it was in phase again, but the hit totally crashed the phasing tech and the entire group was hurled into a pocket dimension along with the dead creature. The next adventure was to find a way out of this mess.
Some players don't come up with lots of fun ideas for special effects but we worked together and our GM was always glad to find out what mess we'd get ourselves into with our great ideas.
In a D&D game, a major effect could be chopping off a beholder's eye-stalk or a hydra's head, a minor effect might just blind the eye for some time.
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Post by dwayanu on Jan 24, 2023 10:20:11 GMT -6
I’m intrigued by the impression that it’s very much geared to improvisation. It probably needs to have things strongly tied in to the setting and situation and characters at hand, as opposed to being a ‘machine’ that’s very interesting in the abstract. Physical combat appears to be less a sub-game in itself than an application of general rules for challenges (e.g., the three resource point pools).
I think it’s the Cyphers of the title that were mostly literal treasures (one-shot magic items) in Numenera, but call for some other rationale in other contexts because they’re pretty important to exciting flow of the game.
The few and big steps in advancement might be less jarring to many OSR people than to folks accustomed to 20 levels, but I gather that there is (at least in the Claim the Sky supplement for the comicbook superhero genre) provision for extending to 15.
A shortcoming I’ve seen alluded to is in vehicle combat (but may be relevant to other contexts). Allegedly the maths of the abstraction break down in ways that remind me somewhat of Tunnels & Trolls. My guess is that’s probably easier to fix with a simple change of formalism in Cypher.
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Post by hamurai on Jan 24, 2023 23:11:14 GMT -6
I’m intrigued by the impression that it’s very much geared to improvisation. It probably needs to have things strongly tied in to the setting and situation and characters at hand, as opposed to being a ‘machine’ that’s very interesting in the abstract. Physical combat appears to be less a sub-game in itself than an application of general rules for challenges (e.g., the three resource point pools). Correct, the basic rule is used for everything - in case of combat, the difficulty is represented by the enemy, the Target Number to hit is the difficulty times 3. That's also used to evade attacks from that enemy. There are a few exceptions, when enemies attack as "level +1" or something, and if you have applicable skills, you reduce the difficulty by 1 or 2 (before multiplying), depending on your skill level. If the difficulty falls to 0, the check is passed automatically. You can reduce the diffculty in other ways, like by using Effort, which means you spend some points of your stat pools to reduce the difficulty. Depending on your level (Tier), you can do that once or several times. I think it’s the Cyphers of the title that were mostly literal treasures (one-shot magic items) in Numenera, but call for some other rationale in other contexts because they’re pretty important to exciting flow of the game. Yep. In fantasy games, these would be potions, wands, magic arrows and other items which have 1 or just a few charges. In near Sci-Fi these could be drug injections, special ammo, etc. Not everything will be easy to tie into the game, and some Cyphers will just not fit your game, but that's for the GM to decide. The few and big steps in advancement might be less jarring to many OSR people than to folks accustomed to 20 levels, but I gather that there is (at least in the Claim the Sky supplement for the comicbook superhero genre) provision for extending to 15. That's true. It's just not a system for power-gamers and number crunchers. But that doesn't have t obe bad, does it?  A shortcoming I’ve seen alluded to is in vehicle combat (but may be relevant to other contexts). Allegedly the maths of the abstraction break down in ways that remind me somewhat of Tunnels & Trolls. My guess is that’s probably easier to fix with a simple change of formalism in Cypher. I don't remember vehicle combat, to be honest. Our GM said he used the same stats and rules as for characters when it was vehicle vs vehicle, I believe. But it didn't come up a lot, so I forgot. |
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