So...Outdoor Survival?

[thegreyelf]

Anyone actually use it for OD&D as indicated in M&M? What's the deal? How does it work, and do you do anything with it besides use whatever generic outdoor game board it comes with?

[kesher]

I picked it up SUPER cheap on ebay. The game itself I really didn't look at; it was the board I wanted. Essentially, it's a great tactile prop. It'd be really easy to simply pull it out and say, "Okay. You're all here. You've heard about dungeons here and here. Where do you want to go?"

Also, unless I'm mistaken, the rough center of the board looks a lot like the geography around Greyhawk city...

[coffee]

I once literally found a copy in a dumpster.

I gave it to an old DM of mine, who had always heard of it but had never actually owned a copy. I don't know what he did with it.

[kesher]

*resisting asking why you were rooting around in the dumpster*

[ant]

I just received one that I picked up cheap on e-Bay. I'm thinking of using it along with the sand-box articles from Fight On! for an OD&D campaign next year.

[Deleted]

Like Kesher, I only use the board. (I don't think they used any of the other parts in OD&D, maybe Fin or one of the other old guys can shed more light on this.)

[James Maliszewski]

Sept 19, 2008 14:59:52 GMT -6 kesher said:

Also, unless I'm mistaken, the rough center of the board looks a lot like the geography around Greyhawk city...

Perhaps the original, pre-publication Greyhawk geography bore some resemblance to the Outdoor Survival map, but the one Gary wrote for TSR is wholly original.

On the other hand, the lands south of the Blackmoor map have some relationship to the OS map. I believe Dave is on record as having said he used it when his players wandered farther afield than he'd mapped for his campaign.

[coffee]

Sept 19, 2008 17:19:59 GMT -6 kesher said:

*resisting asking why you were rooting around in the dumpster*

You mean you don't? ;D

I was taking a shortcut down this little alley that ran behind a cheap hotel. Apparently, someone had been thrown out, or skipped out on his bill, or whatever, because a bunch of stuff was in the dumpster, some of it spilling into the alley itself. I saw a box that was recognizably an Avalon Hill box, but it was ground into the pavement by a few dozen cars.

So I checked inside the dumpster, and there, right on top, still in the box, was Outdoor Survival. So it isn't quite as seedy a story as you seem to be imagining...

[thegreyelf]

See, shirt like that never happens to me.

Closest I ever came was stumbling on a new, shrinkwrapped copy of the Lord of the Rings board game by Fantasy Flight, for $10 at a flea market.

I am officially jealous.

[stonetoflesh]

I too picked up a copy on the cheap (~$3 on Ebay) a few years ago after learning that it was recommended for use with OD&D. I didn't have the OD&D rules at the time though, and didn't realize that the map was the big draw... I already have plenty of maps though.

The Outdoor Survival game itself is pretty depressing, in the half-dozen times I've played there have been (cue Andre the Giant voice) NO SURVIVORS!!!

OS does come with a little "how-to" pamphlet that describes various wilderness survival skills & techniques (sometimes in graphic detail) that could lend some "realistic" flavor to wilderness exploration campaigns, but that's about the only use I have for the game.

[Finarvyn]

Agreed. The few times I played it seemed like everyone spent most of the game lost in the woods. Maybe it's more realistic than I thought..... :-)

[coffee]

It was designed by Jim Dunnigan (of SPI fame), so it's more of a simulation than a game.

(Dunnigan once bet AH's Tom Shaw that he could design a game on any subject; Shaw gave him Surviving in the Wilderness. Outdoor Survival is the result.)

[thegreyelf]

Sept 22, 2008 16:05:00 GMT -6 stonetoflesh said:

I too picked up a copy on the cheap (~$3 on Ebay) a few years ago after learning that it was recommended for use with OD&D. I didn't have the OD&D rules at the time though, and didn't realize that the map was the big draw... I already have plenty of maps though.

The Outdoor Survival game itself is pretty depressing, in the half-dozen times I've played there have been (cue Andre the Giant voice) NO SURVIVORS!!!

OS does come with a little "how-to" pamphlet that describes various wilderness survival skills & techniques (sometimes in graphic detail) that could lend some "realistic" flavor to wilderness exploration campaigns, but that's about the only use I have for the game.

This brings up an interesting point: how useful would those survival skills and techniques be in an OD&D game?

[Finarvyn]

I don't bother with survival. I hire a Ranger and he survives for me. ;D

[stonetoflesh]

Sept 23, 2008 8:11:59 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

This brings up an interesting point: how useful would those survival skills and techniques be in an OD&D game?

I think it would depend on the degree to which the referee requires the players to describe their survival actions. I might ask my players to do so if they are trying to survive an avalanche or find water in an arid region, but I won't expect them to describe proper first aid procedure for shock and internal bleeding. There's a point where "fun fantasy game" ends and "depressing survival simulation" begins, although if I were 13 again and playing with kids from my scout troop we might go in for that kind of game...

For those readers who don't have the OS Wilderness Skills booklet, it contains basic information on: Direction Finding, Water Purification, Obtaining Water, Catching Fish, Killing Game, Tracking Game, Butchering Game, Building a Fire, Obtaining Shelter, Distress Signals, First Aid, Dealing with Natural Hazards, and Equipment and Supplies. Needless to say, there are much better (and more thorough, entertaining, and readily available) primers on Wilderness Survival skills out there.

[robertsconley]

Sept 19, 2008 14:29:08 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Anyone actually use it for OD&D as indicated in M&M? What's the deal? How does it work, and do you do anything with it besides use whatever generic outdoor game board it comes with?

Makes a nifty campaign map

home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/southlandsm.jpg

Note that the scale should be 5 miles per hex not 3.

Enjoy
Rob Conley

[thegreyelf]

Sept 23, 2008 11:42:34 GMT -6 stonetoflesh said:

I think it would depend on the degree to which the referee requires the players to describe their survival actions. I might ask my players to do so if they are trying to survive an avalanche or find water in an arid region, but I won't expect them to describe proper first aid procedure for shock and internal bleeding. There's a point where "fun fantasy game" ends and "depressing survival simulation" begins, although if I were 13 again and playing with kids from my scout troop we might go in for that kind of game...

For those readers who don't have the OS Wilderness Skills booklet, it contains basic information on: Direction Finding, Water Purification, Obtaining Water, Catching Fish, Killing Game, Tracking Game, Butchering Game, Building a Fire, Obtaining Shelter, Distress Signals, First Aid, Dealing with Natural Hazards, and Equipment and Supplies. Needless to say, there are much better (and more thorough, entertaining, and readily available) primers on Wilderness Survival skills out there.

Ah, so it's not game rule information on these subjects, but a so-called "real world" primer?

[apeloverage]

Slightly off-topic:

are there any books about wilderness survival specifically for role-playing games?

[ffilz]

Like the Wilderness Survival Guide for AD&D? :-)

Frank

[stonetoflesh]

Sept 23, 2008 14:06:01 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Ah, so it's not game rule information on these subjects, but a so-called "real world" primer?

Correct.... A very brief primer at that. For more detailed content you're probably better off looking for a military survival guide or a Boy Scout handbook

Edit to add: About the only thing the OS guide has going for it is its digest size, which fits conveniently and unobtrusively into your white or brown box.

[thegreyelf]

Sadly, it doesn't even have that because my white box is full to bursting with the 3 books and reference sheets plus Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes, Swords & Spells, and Chainmail .

No room for another book!

[darneson]

To clarify. We used the map for the map's sake; no, not ever the game.

Dave Arneson
"Dark Lord of Gaming"

[thegreyelf]

Wow, Dave Arneson responds to my thread! That's pretty cool .

Thanks for your insight. And while I have your attention, though slightly off topic, I wanted to mention that we met at Gen Con (I'm sure you met lots of people there) and I had you sign the Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor book. I had stopped by earlier in the weekend to ask you to sign some of my OD&D books, and my old Adventures in Blackmoor AD&D book...but the guys at your booth told me you would only sign books purchased there . I am guessing that I either misinterpreted their remark, or there was another time/place to get other things signed...but I wanted to ask you about it, since you're around.

If you make the con next year, would it be acceptable to bring some older works to have signed?

Thanks.

[darneson]

No. I was signing just about anything. Send me the copies (Return postage) and I will do so

Dave Arneson
"Dark Lord of Gaming"

[thegreyelf]

Wow, thanks! That's very nice of you. Where should I send them?

(if you don't want to just post, you can PM me the address or e-mail me at [e-mail])

[Stormcrow]

Sept 19, 2008 15:47:48 GMT -6 coffee said:

I once literally found a copy in a dumpster.

I once found a copy of Mayfair’s City-State of the Invincible Overlord in someone’s garbage (which I saw from a distance when I was walking past it, thank you!). I snagged that, and the old-cover X1 module that was sitting there.

A slight bit of water damage from a light rain that was falling, but it’s still perfectly usable, if no longer collectible (not that I’ve ever heard of a collector looking for the Mayfair version of CSIO).