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Post by Malchor on Dec 14, 2022 7:06:26 GMT -6
When about 6 years old, I gave the child Hero Kids RPG and we played that for some time, and she's GM'd it for us since.
Couple years ago, I gave her Lulu prints of the original 1974 LBB, she uses them when playing to look things up, spells mostly.
This year, now 12, I was thinking Basic, so the rules are actually readable. The problem is, which one?! Options are:
1. Holmes Basic. I have an extra copy I think of a third printing booklet (not the box set). Though, I would likely Lulu print a new booklet, plus B1.
2. BLUEHOLME, which I have not actually read. I know it is a clone of Holmes's rules, what I wonder is if it written in the same style as Holmes? This would be printed.
3. Moldvay. Again, a Lulu print with B1.
4. The fan edit that combines B/X into one book. Not just front of book is B and then X printed together with one cover, or interleaved pages. Someone actually pulled all of text, intelligently combined it without adding anything, and made it one single rule set. You can find it on the B/X Facebook page, they also included the monsters from the modules for good measure. Plus a Lulu print of B1.
5. OSE Classic Rules Tome. This covers everything in B/X, correct? This one is the most model, and the most pricey as a physical copy.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 14, 2022 7:11:47 GMT -6
The easiest to learn from would be the "red box" Mentzer set, but since she has been playing for a while she probably doesn't need that. How about getting a reprint Rules Cyclopedia? I think that DriveThru allows a print on demand for that one.
The fan edit B/X could be good, but I know nothing about it. Any links on how to find that?
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Post by Malchor on Dec 14, 2022 7:22:58 GMT -6
The easiest to learn from would be the "red box" Mentzer set, but since she has been playing for a while she probably doesn't need that. How about getting a reprint Rules Cyclopedia? I think that DriveThru allows a print on demand for that one. The fan edit B/X could be good, but I know nothing about it. Any links on how to find that? Never loved Mentzer, just a personal preference. Oddly, I do love the RC for occasional reference, so maybe, though would rather stick with Holmes or Moldvay/Cook, and their offspring. |
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Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 14, 2022 8:12:14 GMT -6
2. Blue Holmes, which I have not actually read. I know it is a clone of Holmes's rules, what I wonder is if it written in the same style as Holmes? This would be printed. You haven't read BLUEHOLME™!?! That's it. How do I block people again?  I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the same style as Holmes", but there were two underlying design principles behind the project: - To organise the rules more like Moldvay, which is my gold standard for rules clarity, so you can actually find stuff. Holmes was a big step up from OD&D clarity, but still nowhere near the level of Moldvay.
- To lean into Holmes's refereeing style, which was to allow players to do pretty much whatever they wanted by listening to their ideas and finding a way to fit it into the rules without breaking the game. With rules as simple as Holmes D&D that's very easy to do.
I think you're probably looking at the BLUEHOLME™ Prentice Rules - levels 1-3, basically a clone of Holmes. 3 levels should keep her going for a good while, after which she should know whether to move on to Journeymanne, another game entirely, or just stick to OD&D (because it's very compatible, just like Holmes & OD&D). The Prentice Rules have human, elf, halfling or dwarf PCs, the Journeymanne Rules which cover levels 1-20 have simple guidelines for playing anything from Ape (Giant) to Zombie. Both have rules for creating combination classes in the style of fighter/magic-users at the cost of slower advancement. You can check out the pay-what-you-want PDF on DTRPG to help you make up your mind. If you want to get a hard copy, there are saddle-stitched and perfect bound versions on Lulu. There's a sale on at the moment: use code FLURRY15 for 15% off.  |
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muddy
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 159 
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Post by muddy on Dec 14, 2022 8:40:59 GMT -6
I suggest Bluehome - it has worked very well for me at Garycon, and the Prentice rules are pay what you want on DriveThru so if she ran a game her players could get the rules easily and without much (any) expense.
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Post by mgtremaine on Dec 14, 2022 9:25:42 GMT -6
Bluehome is very well done, and would make a very nice gift indeed.
-Mike
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 14, 2022 9:36:52 GMT -6
Never loved Mentzer, just a personal preference. I get that. I never used Mentzer and don't have any real affinity for it, but a lot of folks say it's the best to learn from. |
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Post by hamurai on Dec 14, 2022 10:03:20 GMT -6
I know it's not "the same", as in "it is a vintage product", but if accessibility and ease of use is important, I'd recommend going for Old School Essentials.
The presentation is modern and easy on the eye, it's put together well and collects info where it makes sense. Optional rules are there, too, like if you want to get rid of race-as-class. There are several very good modern modules (with old school atmosphere but no endless text walls) for it, too. Rules are available either as a full "tome" which includes everything, or as booklets, which collect basic rules, characters, spells, monsters etc. in different little booklets, which are perfect for looking up a piece of info during play.
And if need be, you can expand the game via the Advanced books, which backport AD&D classes and optional rules to B/X.
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Post by Malchor on Dec 14, 2022 12:28:01 GMT -6
2. Blueholme, which I have not actually read. I know it is a clone of Holmes's rules, what I wonder is if it written in the same style as Holmes? This would be printed. You haven't read BLUEHOLME™!?! That's it. How do I block people again? Funny enough, a copy of BLUEHOLME is on the gift list for me, so proactively trying to fix that. By same style as Holmes, I meant same voice and tone, but know rethinking that since Holmes Basic's voice and tone is really Gygax with a decent editor. So, not that important. |
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phantomtim
Level 3 Conjurer
13th Age Enthusiast
Posts: 87
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Post by phantomtim on Dec 14, 2022 16:36:15 GMT -6
I'm a fan of Blueholme as well. Holmes Basic has its own vibe that's subtlety different from other versions of the game. Blueholme does a nice job of capturing this, while clarifying and expanding the rules.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 14, 2022 17:45:30 GMT -6
There are a few versions of the fan-edited B/X, (I may or may not have one on my shelf), so you might want to look through the file to make sure there are no obvious errors before Lulu-ing it. It also has some stuff from the modules incorporated. Lots of different covers to choose from. I have the OSE tome as well, it's a nice tome but most users I know think it's not much 'fun' as a book so I don't know whether it's really aimed at kids the way Holmes and Molvay were. It's a really good rules reference but a bit dry. Labyrinth Lord is getting a 2nd edition so I wouldn't get 1st now. It's more flavourful than OSE, I think (I have the combined B/X-advanced volume). But of course Holmes is the most fun.  |
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Post by machfront on Dec 15, 2022 7:47:19 GMT -6
Ok. I’m going to make a very strong attempt to not be biased…but instead focus on your presentation considering what she has experienced and already has.
I’m going to tell you, going into this… I LOVE B/X then easier presentations of OD&D (WhiteBox:FMAG,S&W), then Holmes, then OD&D itself…
Having said both that and acknowledging your presentation of what your daughter has experienced and also owns and is familiar with….
Here are my thoughts…
(Also having my own gaming daughter…) …and it’s Christmas! 😁
She has, as you said, OD&D. You clearly feel she needs something other. Okay, cool.
As awesome as Holmes is….she’s going to get nothing new there.
Blueholme is awesome…but, I feel, one would only get something it if they were already invested in the Holmes ‘way’ of OD&D. (Nothing negative about it, though)
Again…I really am trying hard to be as objective as I can be here, guys! Don’t hate me! Heheh
B/X…well….that’s loaded, too…
I suppose if she’s only using OD&D as a lil bit of reference…as opposed to delving into the entirety of it…B/X may be a way for her to begin to learn rather than just reference some things,
The booklets are nice…. But…ask yourself if she’d find more fun and inspiration in the two booklets……and be brutally honest with yourself about it….
Or…if the Omnibus….or OSE may be the way to go.
Further.
I’d wonder…if she shares it with friends today, or next year….
Is she going to say….well, download this and then that and then print it here and do this this and that?….
Or does it make sense to just say…go and grab this? Of course, the latter.
Of course….most of us here would think it would be super cool if she had a custom OD&D hardback and she introduced all her friends to OD&D and she and all of them knew exactly and precisely what it was they were gaming and that they all could also go easily grab the same OD&D custom hardback and no issues, etc….yeah. Of course.
But….yeah….no.
And….hey….they are young… even if they accept or don’t care it’s not the newest, greatest thing….please accept that they’re young. Accept that having a physical product that’s physically attractive really does matter. (And that, to us…physically attractive, IS very different to us than they).
Color matters. Show, matters. Presentation matters. And, being new gamers, reference matters…a lot. ..I wish we could have ALL of that AND perfect reference….but, hey…get them in…,get them in and loving it FIRST…THEN…maybe we can guide them even easier to appreciation of the older books, etc.
Ok.
So.
Something available. Something attractive. Something literally new. Something old school.
All of this….I really do absolutely have to recommend OSE. I really do.
You mentioned you’re not very familiar with OSE though are aware of it. I’m here to tell you …first of all, it’s absolutely beautiful…secondly, it’s unparalleled as a reference. A nigh jaw-dropping amount of consideration went into its formatting for it to be a reference work,…like…it literally was considered page by page as a reference work. Not kidding.
Now…. I’d likely give her the original B/X…and explain simply the book is a new presentation of it. I would. Give her….as she’s going to be running the games, it seems…give her the old school inspiration in the original form….but yeah…for her work at the table…and the digital and physical representation etc…for she and the other kids…the lovely OSE books.
I wish OSE had a more ‘fun’ name (I feel it’s the one major failure of an amazing product, as it’s not at all flavorful nor inspiring). But it’s a teeny tiny thing.
So, yes.
I’d recommend OSE…but also make certain to also give her the original B/X books and (very) briefly explain where B/X sits and let her know OSE IS B/X (because it literally is).
Plenty of time later …later… to give her her own Holmes, etc to grant her extra, fun inspiration.
Grab em and and let ‘em have fun first! 😁
I hope they do!
Cheers!
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Post by machfront on Dec 15, 2022 8:11:25 GMT -6
If it was my lil gal….I’d get her the OSE Rules Tome hardback…and she’d have the pdf…I’d also give the original B/X books, and a copy of Holmes….explain it/them.
Her friends could grab the pdf for their iPad or iPhone…. Or…hey…grab just the OSE player books for them as gifts perhaps? Hey. More money outta your pocket…but…it’s worth it! Ya know it is! You…we…all know we all had ‘a lifetime of adventure and fun’ when we got whatever iteration of D&D we got for Christmas or birthday or whatever, right?
Hey! Heck! I’d even throw a few old and new rpg zines, too!
A big, solid handful of old issues of Dragon…and a few printed issues of something like Black Pudding.
Why?
Because such things will help show her all the variations and fun possibilities without you grabbing her face and shouting them directly at her…. Ya dig?
Stocking stuffers?
Fantasy comic or graphic novel…. The old comic from a decade or so ago of The Hobbit. A BluRay of….Dragonslayer or Willow. Fun, lovely dice. Maybe even some minis (despite her/they using them or no). Or something else ‘fun’…like a ‘dice tower’ off of Etsy or some such… 🙂
Stoke that fire! 😁
I wish you well!
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Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 15, 2022 8:16:15 GMT -6
Stocking stuffers? Fantasy comic or graphic novel…. The old comic from a decade or so ago of The Hobbit. It worked on my wife (well, she didn't get into RPGs, but she's now a fantasy & SF fan so still a win).  |
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Post by machfront on Dec 15, 2022 8:24:28 GMT -6
That is exactly the one I was thinking of, my man! Thank you! Fun inspiration, I feel.
He is the dad…so he will know best. 😁
Cheers to all!
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Post by machfront on Dec 15, 2022 8:31:43 GMT -6
The easiest to learn from would be the "red box" Mentzer set, but since she has been playing for a while she probably doesn't need that. How about getting a reprint Rules Cyclopedia? I think that DriveThru allows a print on demand for that one. The fan edit B/X could be good, but I know nothing about it. Any links on how to find that? Marv, If you (or anyone else is) interested….stop me/shut me up if I ‘go too far’ Marv…. The compiled (and done quite well, indeed) B/X is available in the files section of the B/X Facebook group…as are a handful of cover files. Just grab the pdf and your choice of cover file and upload to Lulu as a personal project (or whatever it’s called) and then upload the cover file and have it printed…it’s cheap and easy. I promise. It really is really easy. I’m a tech nerd and imagined it would be intimidating. It’s not. Just upload the files and don’t trigger nor adjust nor change nothing. Choose your preferred weight of paper and if you want the cover to be matte or shiny…pretty much it. Heh |
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Post by machfront on Dec 15, 2022 8:51:24 GMT -6
I’d even throw a fun monkey wrench in the works and maybe print out a super simple rpg….maybe RISUS or some such, and run a quick, short game Christmas Eve….just to quickly show another fun way of gaming. 😁
Inspiration cannot be underrated!
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Post by Malchor on Dec 17, 2022 18:23:18 GMT -6
Update. Went with BLUEHOLME™ Journeymanne Rules Hardcover.
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Post by machfront on Dec 18, 2022 5:47:29 GMT -6
Cool! If that how ya feel works best, then cheers to it.
I wish you and she well.
I still encourage you to further entice with other fun stuff as mentioned upthread.
Let us know how it goes and such! 🙂
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Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 18, 2022 9:27:09 GMT -6
Update. Went with BLUEHOLME™ Journeymanne Rules Hardcover. Excellent taste, good sir, excellent taste.  |
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