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Post by tdenmark on Aug 4, 2024 5:36:11 GMT -6
#5: AD&D: I'll have a soft spot in my heart for AD&D as its the first RPG I played, but man is it a mess. These days it does nothing for me that B/X, 3LBB, or 5E can't do better. Although the high gygaxian prose in the DMG is delightful. Some great modules which are easily ported to B/X or 3LBB. Fun ranking, I agree with most of it. Except 1st Edition AD&D is absolutely a top tier game. It's rough edges and messiness are a feature, not a bug. Gygax at his best. In fact I rank OD&D and AD&D1e as the two best editions of D&D ever made, and not merely coincidentally the only ones authored by Gary himself. I too rank 5e highly. I wanted to hate it after the debacle that was 4th, but it slowly won me over. It has many problems for sure, but since I play it with an "old school" attitude I'm able to overcome those issues. |
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 5, 2024 23:48:43 GMT -6
6th edition: too ?
5th edition: too fluffy
4th edition: not D&D
3.5 edition: way too crunchy
3rd edition: too crunchy
2nd edition: too many optional rules
1st edition: almost perfect
BECMI: pretty good
B/X: pretty darned good
Holmes: underappreciated
OD&D: perfection
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 6, 2024 3:58:48 GMT -6
I've heard some really good things about the new 2024 Player's Handbook. Rules aren't so different from 5E, but the presentation and organization is better. There are a few specific rules I've heard about that I'm not sure I like (Paladin "smite" becomes a bonus action instead of a power, for example) but since the limited release at GenCon I'm hearing more good than bad. |
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Post by rredmond on Aug 6, 2024 4:30:15 GMT -6
Ha! I didn’t even know there was a new Players Handbook! Wasn’t there a whole bunch more pomp and circumstance for 5e? Or am I just really that far out of touch?  |
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Post by simrion on Aug 10, 2024 12:49:13 GMT -6
Ha! I didn’t even know there was a new Players Handbook! Wasn’t there a whole bunch more pomp and circumstance for 5e? Or am I just really that far out of touch? Wow! 6th already... |
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Post by calithena on Aug 10, 2024 13:13:31 GMT -6
You know I've been conciliatory towards 2e lately because unlike the later editions you can still basically play 2e characters in the original framework. But at the time I hated 2e. I remember standing in a hobby store looking at the books when they first came out and my friend saying "they ruined D&D." I might not even have stayed with the game if I hadn't stumbled on to Mentzer's BECMI sets at some point. Forgive me for my compromising words elsewhere.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 10, 2024 17:07:01 GMT -6
There's a 6th edition now?
Geez. I s'pose it's all economics-driven, but my addled little brain just wonders... why? Who actually needs it?
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 10, 2024 18:17:30 GMT -6
There's a 6th edition now? Geez. I s'pose it's all economics-driven, but my addled little brain just wonders... why? Who actually needs it? Not really a 6E at all. They are reprinting the 5E Player's Handbook with new art and layout, and a few rules tweaks. Seems that you can run all of the 5E modules -- the numbers are pretty much the same, but how you get them changes a little. Probably awkward to run old PH characters in the same game as new PH characters, but I think it would still work. |
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Post by hamurai on Aug 11, 2024 0:22:14 GMT -6
From what I gathered, isn't the new edition's content "just" the updated 5E with all errata and the more "inclusive" rules for character creation? That is, choose your attribute bonuses, skills, abilities, etc. So, demihumans are now pretty much really just cosplaying humans, because "genetics" (fixed attribute bonuses and abilities) no longer exist.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 11, 2024 1:13:49 GMT -6
Sounds more like a 5.5e?
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 11, 2024 5:44:51 GMT -6
From what I gathered, isn't the new edition's content "just" the updated 5E with all errata and the more "inclusive" rules for character creation? That is, choose your attribute bonuses, skills, abilities, etc. So, demihumans are now pretty much really just cosplaying humans, because "genetics" (fixed attribute bonuses and abilities) no longer exist. That about sums it up. It is less of a change than 3.5 was to 3.0. They are infected with an ideology that is turning the game into gray goo to appease a certain audience. Which is what you'd expect a big corporation to do. The sad thing is I'll probably buy a set of the core books, only because I have every edition. And supposedly this is the last edition they'll be printing core books for. It is all digital from now on. |
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 11, 2024 5:51:13 GMT -6
You know I've been conciliatory towards 2e lately because unlike the later editions you can still basically play 2e characters in the original framework. But at the time I hated 2e. I remember standing in a hobby store looking at the books when they first came out and my friend saying "they ruined D&D." I might not even have stayed with the game if I hadn't stumbled on to Mentzer's BECMI sets at some point. Forgive me for my compromising words elsewhere. Same here! Not gonna sugar coat it I hated 2e when it came out, and my game group at the time did too. A large part of it is I didn't like the aesthetic. With the heights they'd reached with Dragonlance (graphicly) I had high expectations. But I recently* got a set of the revised core books and the player option books and read through them. WAY better than I remembered it being. Only thing is, I can't find anyone to play it. *Recently in old man years is like 5 or 6 years ago.  |
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 11, 2024 5:52:53 GMT -6
I'm curious on how you arrived at this conclusion. Are you just assuming that new artwork and organization constitutes a new edition? Or do you feel like there are significant enough rules changes to warrant a new label? I may be behind the times on this. I remember 2E and when they switched to the black book layout I don't think it was called 2.5, was it? The first time I can recall a ".5" added to an edition was with 3rd, and honestly I didn't play 3E enough to know the difference between 3E and 3.5E. Anyway, what I have seen is mostly organizational with few actual rules changes. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 11, 2024 7:50:22 GMT -6
I don't know anything about it; just trying to figure out broadly "what it is".
I guess the 5.5 comment came from the seemingly (based on a few short posts above) similar case where 3.5e was similar to 3.0e, published soon after, with new art and organisation, and modest rules changes. I could be totally wrong about that, just guessing.
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 11, 2024 7:53:44 GMT -6
Why does it annoy me so much that Aasimar, Dragonborn, Goliath, and Tiefling are in the core 2024 PHB?  |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 11, 2024 8:03:24 GMT -6
Or that it's at least 196 pages long?
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Dohojar
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 119 
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Post by Dohojar on Aug 11, 2024 9:02:09 GMT -6
Why does it annoy me so much that Aasimar, Dragonborn, Goliath, and Tiefling are in the core 2024 PHB? Is annoys me too. I don't like the newer races they have added. And I don't like the fact that they changed the term race to species. I just find it pandering to the woke masses that play the game. But that is another subject. I do believe they are still calling it 5e. This is the description of the players handbook on D&D beyond: "Introducing the 2024 Player's Handbook, the new and improved guide for fifth edition DUNGEONS & DRAGONS. Packed with endless character options, striking illustrations, and a streamlined design, every part of this 384-page book is a joy to experience". |
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 11, 2024 9:03:48 GMT -6
And supposedly this is the last edition they'll be printing core books for. It is all digital from now on. Thanks for the good news! |
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 11, 2024 9:05:26 GMT -6
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 11, 2024 13:07:17 GMT -6
And supposedly this is the last edition they'll be printing core books for. It is all digital from now on. Thanks for the good news! LOL |
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Post by hamurai on Aug 11, 2024 13:17:58 GMT -6
Why does it annoy me so much that Aasimar, Dragonborn, Goliath, and Tiefling are in the core 2024 PHB? The thing is, if they indeed included all the changes to character creation they have added in the 5E supplements, the races species are just fluff anyway, because you can play anything (which is not by itself a flaw) and just add all the abilities and bonuses you want to fit your class so you can "powergame" the game and have a perfect "build" for your character.
The good thing is, you probably won't be seeing all the cookie cutter iconic characters as much anymore, because now it's no longer "necessary" (from a power-gaming POV) to play a Tiefling or Halfelf Warlock just because they get the tasty CHA bonus which adds another +1 to your main stat, for example. Also, Gnome Wizards for the INT bonus. Also, ... (the list goes on).
The bad thing is - and this is probably more a problem for the old(er) players who have enjoyed their game as "classic fantasy" - you will see more Tabaxi (cat-people) Wizards, Dwarf Sorcerers, Orc Monks, Tiefling Clerics, Gnome Barbarians, etc. Sure, in another setting some of these will probably a lot of fun to play and/or meet. The thing is, in theory, these combinations have always been possible in 5E, but because Orc racial bonuses didn't go too well with the Monk class, hardly anyone played them. Gnome Barbarians? They don't "fit" the class (neither in fluff, nor with the stats).
We've played a short Halfling campaign some years back and it was actually a lot of fun to not power-game, but to find a way how the classes fit into the fluff of Halflings. I played a Halfling Paladin with the Oath of the Ancients, a protector of the woodland, so he was not in the "standard" platemail and carrying a shield and sword, but a leather armour, a short sword and a short bow. His "steed" was a hog. This was sort-of a Ranger/Paladin and it was a very nice change from the "iconic" class. I've never been interested in playing a Paladin before, but that was a challenge I found interesting.
Back to the new PHB - you can pretty much make up your own anything species now. A hovering Kraken Warlock worshipping Dagon or Cthulhu, for example. Of course, it gets +2 CHA because Warlocks want that! Also, Nightvision, because only noobs carry torches. The Kraken will probably be joined by a humanoid animal (bears seem popular), also a fairy and... uhmm... a Mindflayer Bard, maybe, because they aren't really evil, it's just their culture. Also, they get +2 CHA because Bards.... you know.
OK, I'll stop now. Personally, I'd play (and have played) such games, but not as D&D. I might use the D&D rules system, but I guess I wouldn't call it D&D anymore.
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Post by geoffrey on Aug 11, 2024 13:38:51 GMT -6
We've played a short Halfling campaign... Heh. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 11, 2024 14:15:23 GMT -6
I wanna play a Jawa, but I didn't see that option on the table of contents.  |
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 11, 2024 15:25:56 GMT -6
I wanna play a Jawa, but I didn't see that option on the table of contents. You mean "Cloaked Kender?" I see Kender is not an option either. Hmmm... maybe just a stereotypical Halfling Thief with a brown cloak. Wait, now that is Halfling "Rogue." I can't keep up with all of these name changes. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Aug 11, 2024 16:27:54 GMT -6
streamlined design.... 384-page book...  |
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Post by jeffb on Aug 11, 2024 18:28:23 GMT -6
WOTC gave out copies of the new PHB for youtube influencer reviews and then got upset and handed out copyright strikes to the influencers and/or made them blur out all the pics/footage so people would not be able to piece together and print out their own PHB from images of the pages. Seriously. Its been all over youtube as the latest "scandal".
I have a few choice words for them, but I'll just say I don't know why anyone would spend a dime on WOTC products at this point. I'd take Gary the Businessman or Lorraine any day of the week over WOTC.
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 11, 2024 18:59:33 GMT -6
WOTC gave out copies of the new PHB for youtube influencer reviews and then got upset and handed out copyright strikes to the influencers It's like a clown car act. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Aug 11, 2024 19:31:24 GMT -6
Well, say what you will about WotC and how they do their business but they may have hit this one out of the park. At least, for those who like 5E. What I have seen is a LOT better than the 2014 version.
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Aug 11, 2024 19:36:25 GMT -6
I have a few choice words for them, but I'll just say I don't know why anyone would spend a dime on WOTC products at this point. I'd take Gary the Businessman or Lorraine any day of the week over WOTC. Somewhere, I've got a topic called "I'm still mad at D&D" or some such. It's still true. For my own gaming I'm sticking with Swords & Wizardry White Box, and steering clear of D&D past, present, and future. It might seem odd (pun intended) that I remain on this forum, but I like you folks a lot. |
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Post by tdenmark on Aug 11, 2024 20:57:35 GMT -6
Well, say what you will about WotC and how they do their business but they may have hit this one out of the park. At least, for those who like 5E. What I have seen is a LOT better than the 2014 version. I hope so. I'm only referring to some of the silly things I've heard. I don't hold particular animosity against WotC or any particular edition. I've got my favorite editions of D&D and retroclones and more than enough supplements and adventures to last a lifetime. And I play things other than D&D! Also I like making games. I do think many third party publishers have made D&D books better than what WotC has to offer. |
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