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Post by tdenmark on Oct 12, 2022 11:49:41 GMT -6
Something that has been clearly emerging from the 1D&D play tests is that D&D is going virtual. This is reinforced by the hiring of Microsoft executives into key positions at Hasbro, an public statements that mention Digital first.
Hasbro wants in on Loot boxes and selling virtual goods, and subscriptions, understandable from a business perspective. But is it the best for the game and for the fans and players?
I know a lot of my gaming has gone online, and at the table I have my iPad with all my books readily at hand. But nothing beats the tactile feeling, and the social interaction in person gaming provides.
Does going virtual make you more excited for 1D&D?
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Post by mgtremaine on Oct 12, 2022 12:08:58 GMT -6
Does going virtual make you more excited for 1D&D? nope -Mike |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 12:16:03 GMT -6
Hasbro wants in on Loot boxes and selling virtual goods, and subscriptions, understandable from a business perspective. Does going virtual make you more excited for 1D&D? I have less than zero interest in any of those things, if that is the route they are going, then they will never get a penny from me for one D&D. There are a lot of products they could make that I would buy, but nothing noted above falls in that category. As a general rule, anyone who converts to a subscription model loses my business. |
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Post by Starbeard on Oct 13, 2022 21:07:08 GMT -6
The only way I can see loot boxes not backfiring catastrophically is if they somehow really elegantly tied them to whatever the new Adventurer's League is going to be. Treasure tables are already randomized anyway, so you fork over $10 to get in on that week's AL mini-adventure, and every four times you play with that character you're gifted a free roll on the treasure table.
That said, no interest. I can play a myriad adventure videogames for free, I can load up a bazillion free to play MMOs, I can play D&D with buddies in person or through any number of free internet services with or without virtual tables. I see no need to merge those into one lackluster experience that does all things unsatisfactorily.
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Post by barbaribunny on Oct 14, 2022 0:22:50 GMT -6
If this is the way they're going, then I'm another one with no interest in it at all.
I don't even use a laptop for notes when playing. I tried it, and found I was looking at the screen instead of the group a lot more than with handwritten notes or a printed module. I don't think that's good for the flow of the game. I also found prep feels more like work if it's done on a computer than if I'm hand-drawing maps like a bored teenager.
I haven't run much 5e, but by all accounts the usual playstyle can be quite punishing for DMs. I wonder if that's another factor pushing the business towards digital tools: a genuine, if misplaced, desire to make things more convenient for the bit of their audience that draws in others, as well as their obvious hope for more profits.
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Post by hamurai on Oct 14, 2022 0:50:51 GMT -6
While I do use PDFs often, I like a physical book to browse and "discover" the book. I hardly do that with PDFs, those are just to look stuff up while playing. I also have physical books at my side when we play online. Sometimes it's easier to find stuff in the actual book than in the PDF.
I do buy PDFs, but I won't get a subscription for RPG stuff. I like some things produced by Patreons, but I don't support any. I wait till it's available for single purchase.
Virtual loot boxes and goods are not for me. I fail to see how that would be implemented in D&D unless all aspects of a character sheet would be controlled by a program and I had no chance to edit anything. And then I'm out entirely.
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Post by jeffb on Oct 14, 2022 5:50:11 GMT -6
I've had roughly zero interest in anything WOTC does with D&D for about 6 years now.
I have no desire to revisit 5e or this new madness.
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Post by greentongue on Oct 14, 2022 8:00:40 GMT -6
Only way I see it even being remotely interesting is as a Virtual Reality experience.
First Person play _might_ be something worth trying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 8:41:47 GMT -6
Tabletop games are tabletop games. Computer games are computer games. Never in the middle shall the two successfully meet.
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bobjester0e
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DDO, DCC, or more Lost City map work? Oh, the hardship of making adult decisions! ;)
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Post by bobjester0e on Oct 14, 2022 13:13:08 GMT -6
No interest.
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Post by greentongue on Oct 16, 2022 11:21:30 GMT -6
Tabletop games are tabletop games. Computer games are computer games. Never in the middle shall the two successfully meet. If men were intended to fly they would have been born with wings! |
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muddy
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Post by muddy on Oct 16, 2022 11:48:33 GMT -6
I think I don't know what a loot box is.
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Post by Starbeard on Oct 16, 2022 12:24:02 GMT -6
I think I don't know what a loot box is. It's like a booster pack of Magic cards. You pay in-game and/or real currency to take a spin and receive a random item, in the hope that you get something good. D&D already has that in the form of random treasure tables, so I can see that aspect coming into League play. But instead of loot boxes, I suspect they will be trying to implement general, Fortnite-style cosmetic microtransactions for players. Pay $2 to unlock this hat for your character to wear on the virtual 3D tabletop environment. That sort of thing. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 16, 2022 14:10:23 GMT -6
Only way I see it even being remotely interesting is as a Virtual Reality experience. First Person play _might_ be something worth trying. Ah more of a 4th edition fan then, I see. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 16, 2022 14:14:42 GMT -6
I think I don't know what a loot box is. A box with loot in it. You have to buy it to open and find out what the loot is. |
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Post by jeffb on Oct 16, 2022 15:08:32 GMT -6
I've had roughly zero interest in anything WOTC does with D&D for about 6 years now. I have no desire to revisit 5e or this new madness. Ah, more of a 4th edition fan then, I see. A bigger fan of every other edition more-so than 5E, in how WOTC or TSR has handled the property. I have not been a fan of the 5E product model since day one, the community they have fostered, how they have treated older edition products (and the people that penned them), nor the injection of their modern day socio/political beliefs into the game (and vilification those in the community who do not fall in line with their thinking). As a ruleset, I've said many times it's probably the best sit down and play out of the box edition there is, but I have no desire to play it or support the company based on what I've stated in the previous paragraph. I'd be quite happy if WOTC took a long walk off a short pier. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 16, 2022 15:15:16 GMT -6
A box with loot in it. You have to buy it to open and find out what the loot is. Isn't loot meant to be something you just take, rather than pay for? |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 16, 2022 15:28:28 GMT -6
the injection of their modern day socio/political beliefs into the game This is interesting. A while back, I thought it was about time I got with the program and gave 5e a serious read. I even thought I might do a review. Or something. When I eventually got there, I was surprised that the DM's guide had so little of the "medieval" or the "something different" tone left. Instead of a "fantastic medieval wargames campaign" we got a pretty thin fantasy facade stretched over a framework built out of today's social climate. Which didn't much excite me, so I put it down. Never did do that review. oh well. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 15:02:35 GMT -6
I think I don't know what a loot box is. It's like a booster pack of Magic cards. You pay in-game and/or real currency to take a spin and receive a random item, in the hope that you get something good. D&D already has that in the form of random treasure tables, so I can see that aspect coming into League play. But instead of loot boxes, I suspect they will be trying to implement general, Fortnite-style cosmetic microtransactions for players. Pay $2 to unlock this hat for your character to wear on the virtual 3D tabletop environment. That sort of thing. In other words, they want to cater to people who have money they don't mind flushing down the toilet. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 17, 2022 20:30:08 GMT -6
I have not been a fan of the 5E product model ... nor the injection of their modern day socio/political beliefs into the game (and vilification those in the community who do not fall in line with their thinking). I know this is not the place to discuss this (and I'm glad we don't here), but they are filing all the interesting edges of the game down into gray goo at the rate they are going, in their attempt to remove anything that might offend anyone. Impossible in this day and age. Fortunately we have OD&D forever and the OGL so we can continue to make content for it so it doesn't matter so much for the way I prefer to play. But part of me likes shiny new full color books filled with amazing new illustrations. |
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Post by DungeonDevil on Oct 17, 2022 23:04:19 GMT -6
I wasn't terribly interested in the chatter about virtual stuff in the Y2K era, and am still not 22 years later. *shrug* Like others, I'm perfectly fine with PDFs of gaming stuff -- provided that the scans are good. (grumble, grumble...stupid Wi$bro scans in lo-def...grumble, grumble). But other than that I strongly prefer Old School over-the-table, face-to-face, honest-to-goodness, no-holds-barred (man, that's a lot of hyphens!)...ROLEPLAYING--not cyber-LARPing!!! I think I don't know what a loot box is. It's like a booster pack of Magic cards. You pay in-game and/or real currency to take a spin and receive a random item, in the hope that you get something good. My god. I hate that with a seething, boiling, incandescent passion that knows no bounds. If I, the consumer, want something and I am willing to fork over my hard-earned dough, then gimme, gimme, GIMME! *Ahem* I mean, quid pro quo, not nihil pro quo. Or something. |
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Post by Starbeard on Oct 17, 2022 23:35:12 GMT -6
Yep. And if there's anything nerd-fan centered computer game companies like Blizzard have learned, it's that importing the explicit "pay to (maybe) win" monetization concepts from casual phone games is a monumentally terrible choice. It's like "New Coke" levels of misreading the nature of their core audience's brand loyalty.
The other thing they've learned is that entirely cosmetic, "personalized user experience" monetization such as you get in battle royale and creative games like Fortnite and Minecraft, absolutely is the best way to go. If World of Warcraft had always been free membership, but every cosmetic bit of bling to your character or UI was a $1-$4 transaction, they would have made way more money than they already did by simply charging everyone $15 a month to play.
I can't imagine Wizards would be so stupid as to get the two confused, especially now that it looks like they have a former X-Box exec at the reins. I would guess at it the most basic level, 1D&D will feature a free-to-play use of their D&D branded version of Roll20, but only as a player and with only a couple of character slots, and select only from the core 5 races and 5 classes. More characters requires a cheap monthly membership, and DM access requires a higher monthly membership. The DM side would operate much like Roll20, where you can purchase tokens, maps, modules, books, SFX, sound packs, etc., through the marketplace. The player side would operate like Call of Duty or Fortnite, where you can purchase optional races and classes, and cosmetic stuff to personalize your virtual minis. From a business standpoint that just seems like the most obvious and safest solution, since it's basically just copying what Roll20 already does.
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Post by hamurai on Oct 17, 2022 23:46:57 GMT -6
I have not been a fan of the 5E product model ... nor the injection of their modern day socio/political beliefs into the game (and vilification those in the community who do not fall in line with their thinking). I know this is not the place to discuss this (and I'm glad we don't here), but they are filing all the interesting edges of the game down into gray goo at the rate they are going, in their attempt to remove anything that might offend anyone. Impossible in this day and age. Let them. Maybe that'll turn 1D&D into a generic RPG toolbox with rules to play anything, in any setting. It'd be interesting to see. I'll still be playing in my old, politically incorrect world with utterly evil, pig-nosed orcs, with evil, cunning drow, etc. Of course there may be 1 or 2 who differ from the rest of the races, but that's a story, not a character. If I'll play another campaign of Planescape, though, I might resort to the new rules where anything is possible. When Mordenkainen's ToF and Tasha's CoE came out I honestly thought they're setting up Planescape 5E with all those exotic races, class and patreon options. |
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Post by hamurai on Oct 17, 2022 23:54:51 GMT -6
I would guess at it the most basic level, 1D&D will feature a free-to-play use of their D&D branded version of Roll20, but only as a player and with only a couple of character slots, and select only from the core 5 races and 5 classes. More characters requires a cheap monthly membership, and DM access requires a higher monthly membership. The DM side would operate much like Roll20, where you can purchase tokens, maps, modules, books, SFX, sound packs, etc., through the marketplace. The player side would operate like Call of Duty or Fortnite, where you can purchase optional races and classes, and cosmetic stuff to personalize your virtual minis. From a business standpoint that just seems like the most obvious and safest solution, since it's basically just copying what Roll20 already does. That's exactly what I'm expecting. Also maybe a partnership with Heroforge, so you can import and export heroes to and from there. Or they'll set up their own 3D-print-your-character service to tie in with the groups who also play at the table. |
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Post by rsdean on Oct 18, 2022 3:08:18 GMT -6
Does going virtual make you more excited for 1D&D? In a word, “No”. I’m a little over a year from my announced retirement date, and daily use of the office’s collaboration software has generally killed any remaining desire to spend more time in virtual places. If I can do it offline, I’d prefer to. There aren’t enough conventions to give me this sort of running conversation, of course… For calibration, I would note that I ran my first online game on CompuServe using text chat in ~1983, so nearly 40 years ago, dipped into Roll20 for the first time in ~2014, and have been in a few online one-shots since then. I can do it; I just don’t want it to be the primary experience for me. |
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Post by mgtremaine on Oct 18, 2022 5:51:54 GMT -6
I would note that I ran my first online game on CompuServe using text chat in ~1983, mmm.. Compuserve - good times...Some many hours spent on MegaWars (both 1 and 3) -Mike |
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Post by greentongue on Oct 18, 2022 11:36:51 GMT -6
Also maybe a partnership with Heroforge, so you can import and export heroes to and from there. Or they'll set up their own 3D-print-your-character service to tie in with the groups who also play at the table. I'm getting a bunch of adverts for putting my virtual face on a Hasbro super hero miniature so that push has already started. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2022 17:34:40 GMT -6
Tabletop games are tabletop games. Computer games are computer games. Never in the middle shall the two successfully meet. If men were intended to fly they would have been born with wings! The analogy is apt, for our strongest flying machines pale in comparison to the grace and beauty of the falcon, and our attempts to emulate the human mind - let alone the soul - will prove exponentially more pathetic, methinks. |
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Post by thorswulf on Oct 18, 2022 17:55:41 GMT -6
5E is it for me. I have spent 80% of my life so far playing the game in many of it's editions, and I don't do, or like virtual anything.
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skars
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Post by skars on Oct 18, 2022 22:10:27 GMT -6
Sure, if it has a simple inexpensive entry. This isn't the first time D&D has tried to go digital and I won't miss the tools already presented for doing so. I have been in a position prior to the pandemic, to connect with gamer friends across the globe to play D&D and we used an asterisk ivr toll free 800 conference bridge and VASSAL to play internationally in 2007 thousands of miles apart. In short, if this enables more people to play D&D - fantastic!
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