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Post by hamurai on Jul 26, 2022 22:42:02 GMT -6
Also, I would not use the better values of the Hero (why Superhero at some point, btw?) or Wizard entries, and I would cap mass Fighting Capability at 2 AF as in the Wizard entry, instead of using 4 men +1 or even raising the number of men. At these higher levels, Wizards are so focused on their arcane studies on their other abilities that martial performance does no longer improve, or even worsens. There's got to be some drawback, I think.
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Post by Mushgnome on Jul 27, 2022 8:20:48 GMT -6
I think there's some confusion what "2AF" means. Each figure in mass combat represents 20 men (1:20 scale) so 2AF equals forty men (not two men). Gandalf riding Shadowfax has the fighting capability of 40 Rohirrim, on the open field of battle (mass combat) not 2 Rohirrim.
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Post by ODDYSSEUS on Jul 27, 2022 8:25:27 GMT -6
You see? This is precisely why I came to the experts!
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Post by retrorob on Jul 27, 2022 8:48:05 GMT -6
hamuraiYeah, I guess this "Wizard -1, -2, etc." should be applied to all rolls/target numbers - not only to counter-spelling or Saving Throw, but also to combat table. So adversariers have actually better chance to hit a Warlock (Wizard -2) than a Wizard (attack on Wizard and add 2 to the dice roll).
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Post by rsdean on Jul 29, 2022 5:02:07 GMT -6
Generally, this discussion should be kept in mind: odd74.proboards.com/thread/13836/faq-scale-20-fantasy-supplementAs noted, D&D isn’t really “designed” to use Chainmail in a comprehensive way. (And Chainmail is at least three somewhat related games with options at several levels, so to decide to use Chainmail will require making choices. Even playing Chainmail as a standalone game will require choices about the rules before sitting down at the table.) So, any project to integrate Chainmail into D&D needs to start, IMHO, with a design goal, since you’ve chosen to do a bunch of game design work. Which pieces of Chainmail and how you integrate them should reflect your objective. Dropping a party of characters into a mass battle is certainly possible, once you have decided on some things like whether the figure scale is 1:20, 1:10, or 1:1. You’d have to decided what happens vis-a-vis character hit points if their figure is hit, and whether the fighting capability levels are at the 1:1 or one of the higher levels, but you could come up with something. You could decide that you want to add (without using Greyhawk) more granularity to weapons and armor choices and integrate the Man-to-Man tables into the typical D&D dungeon combat. As long as you are dealing with a firt level fighter vs a humanoid opponent with weapons and armor, this could be pretty straightforward. As you start deciding what weapon type a Grey Ooze should count as (or whether you will return to the Alternate Combat system for thos encounters), you start making choices, and I don’t even want to imagine trying to decide how to sort out two 3rd level fighters with 3 attacks at Man-to-man each and the multiple attack interactions of the weapon length rules and how all of those attacks would be sequenced against each other. You’ll be deep into game design at that point, starting with Chainmail as a tool kit. Adding those two scenarios together? Well, I’d be skeptical that you could integrate them seamlessly… So, what’s the objective here?
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Post by ODDYSSEUS on Jul 29, 2022 8:42:46 GMT -6
So, what’s the objective here? My objective is to play Chainmail using Man-to-Man and Fantasy Supplement rules (with appropriate Mass Combat rules) only for a dungeon crawl and after I am confident in my Chainmail playing prowess I will carefully consider and methodically incorporate aspects of the 3LBBs atop the Chainmail foundation.
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Post by rsdean on Jul 29, 2022 14:55:55 GMT -6
My objective is to play Chainmail using Man-to-Man and Fantasy Supplement rules (with appropriate Mass Combat rules) only for a dungeon crawl and after I am confident in my Chainmail playing prowess I will carefully consider and methodically incorporate aspects of the 3LBBs atop the Chainmail foundation. I’m not trying to be difficult, but if your goal is to play what amounts to an indoor battle of Chainmail using the man-to-man rules and perhaps a few fantasy creatures of the list mentioned in Chainmail (so that you don’t have to interpolate anything), leaving out the rest of D&D (clerics, treasure, experience, hit points, etc.), wizard fighting capability from Men and Magic is possibly not relevant? Depending on how overactively posed your miniatures are, put them on 3/4” or 1” washers, set up a layout (drawn on paper for ease of experiment) of corridors (say 3” for convenience) and some rooms, and let it rip…but enough corners in the corridors and bow range will be irrelevant. It’s probably better to stage a small test case and build up; trying it will identify the areas that need to be filled in.
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Post by ODDYSSEUS on Jul 29, 2022 15:51:46 GMT -6
Thank you for the advice. It is good advice and I don't have much of a choice to start small anyway because I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to Chainmail! This thread came as a result of my trying to understand "Wizard" Fighting Capability in Men & Magic for the purpose of fleshing out D&D with Chainmail rather than using it for a Chainmail specific dungeon crawl.
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Post by Malchor on Sept 8, 2022 14:35:35 GMT -6
I think there's some confusion what "2AF" means. Each figure in mass combat represents 20 men (1:20 scale) so 2AF equals forty men (not two men). Gandalf riding Shadowfax has the fighting capability of 40 Rohirrim, on the open field of battle (mass combat) not 2 Rohirrim. While I went down that road previously, the accepted connection is that a figure may represent 20 men, in the combat tables, when it says x die per y men, men = figure. Rolling fists full of dice is fun, but 40....or worse a2 dice per man is your Wizard is attacking Light Foot, that is 80 die to roll! Oh, and that means a roster for each figure. Since Gary does not mention a roster system, I now believe man and men on the combat tables means figure and figures.
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