Core combat revisions for Spellcraft & Swordplay 2e

[thegreyelf]

Spellcraft & Swordplay 2e is in development (along with several other books). There's no scheduled release date yet (I'm still deciding exactly what I want to do with it--if anything), but I thought people would like a look behind the curtain at the revised combat system, which I've been playtesting in my home game for a year or so, and which actually informed the O.G.R.E.S. system.

elflairgames.blogspot.com/2022/03/combat-in-orcs-revised-spellcraft.html

[Deleted]

Interesting - straightforward but tactical. The only thing that threw me was:
'Characters wielding class 1 weapons in melee combat with opponents wielding Class 3 or Class 4 weapons may make a single attack (as part of their normal attack routine) at the beginning of each melee round, before the Class 3 or 4 wielder strikes, regardless of initiative results.

Likewise, when a creature wielding a Class 4 weapon is battling a character with a class 1 or 2 weapon who moves inside the reach of the Class 4 weapon, The Class 4 weapon is treated as Class 1 as it is awkward to use in close quarters. '

I would've thought that spear dude might get a thrust in before the knife-wielding maniac closes to within his reach. Maybe I'm visualizing it wrong.

Or do you mean -at close quarters- and you have a 'reach' range or move where you allow the longer weapon to attempt a first strike before the knife guy's up close ?

Maybe it's just the wording that's confusing me.


Also do the O.R.C.S and O.G.R.E.S combat systems feel different in play ?

[dizzysaxophone]

So does this mean combat will no longer have the kind of Weapons vs AC variations?

[jeffb]

I very much like it over the previous tables (older me has changed his mind on such things as tables), Jason.

But I'm also leery of the Class 1 weapons user getting a free attack first against the large weapons user. While I understand the principle of small light weapons, in game terms this usually just results in a situation where classes who are not supposed to be the best melee combatants end up with an advantage over the classes that are supposed to.

A Thief or Wizard with a Dagger should not be striking first against a trained swordsman/axeman/spearman. It's especially a problem in a game where a rogue/thief gets a "sneak attack" like ability.

It sounds realistic in theory but in practice it's not. That Fighter with the axe will knock the less experienced combatant to the ground as you lunge in with your dagger. A spearman will skewer/block you, and the swordsman will block you/bash you.

I understand it's a fantasy game, and by nature unrealistic, but this type of rule always bugs me. Fighters should always be the best combatant on the battlefield- some wizard or thief who pulls a dagger and closes in to melee range vs a prepared warrior with his weapon of choice is going to get wrecked before they get to make an attack.

[thegreyelf]

Class 4 weapon users get a free attack agains Class 1-3 weapon users as they close in combat because of their reach. AFTER the class 1 user has closed, they get a free extra attack due to the sheer speed of their weapons compared to the heft of the larger weapon.

A sneak attack would never be used in this case, and never be used in conjunction with the extra attack, as it has to come from a position of advantage where the attacker doesn't know the thief is attacking.

@geordieracer, yes, O.G.R.E.S. feels VERY different than O.R.C.S.

dizzysaxophone, the weapon vs. AC tables will disappear in O.R.C.S. 2nd edition. I *may* work in something optional to include them, but they are really subsumed into weapon class.

[Deleted]

Got it, thanks Jason !

[jeffb]

Mar 25, 2022 16:44:40 GMT -6 thegreyelf said:

Class 4 weapon users get a free attack agains Class 1-3 weapon users as they close in combat because of their reach. AFTER the class 1 user has closed, they get a free extra attack due to the sheer speed of their weapons compared to the heft of the larger weapon.

A sneak attack would never be used in this case, and never be used in conjunction with the extra attack, as it has to come from a position of advantage where the attacker doesn't know the thief is attacking.

Thanks for the explanation Jason. Makes more sense, though I think I'd houserule this to benefit only fighter types getting the free attack (once they have closed) with the Class 1 weapon.

I doubt wizards would ever even bother (if they are smart), but thieves might.