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Post by tdenmark on Mar 1, 2022 11:02:55 GMT -6
Why don't we have an Unearthed Arcana 2? It appeared in the 1986 TSR catalogue, never to materialize. Was this one of Gygax's abandoned plans? Ever heard of it? I want one!  |
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Post by cadriel on Mar 1, 2022 12:04:55 GMT -6
It was probably shelved because, well, Gary Gygax was pushed out of TSR.
Given what was published in the first Unearthed Arcana, I imagine it would've looked like a mix of material that had been published in previous magazines (including Dragon and Imagine) and new material that Gygax cooked up to keep sales going. He had suggested a few different classes for AD&D that were never realized - the Mystic (cleric concerned with prediction and divination), Savant (magic-user specialized in arcane knowledge), Mountebank (thief specialized in illusion and sleight of hand), and Jester (yep). He specifically said no to the anti-paladin, so that wouldn't have been in it. Otherwise I imagine it would be a compendium of spells and magic and maybe some more expanded rules.
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 1, 2022 12:30:16 GMT -6
That image is just an advance mock-up using recycled art from the July 1984 Amazing Stories magazine cover. During that era, TSR constantly made catalog placeholders for advance products, typically using recycled artwork or rough guides. See a bunch at once from a 1985 catalog in this Acaeum thread, including products both produced and unproduced. The product code, 2020, was later assigned to the Wilderness Survival Guide, which was published November 1986, pretty close to the projected date (October 1986) for the Unearthed Arcana II in the catalog listing. Now, was the Unearthed Arcana II simply an undeveloped placeholder so retailers could place advance orders, or was it an actual in-development project that was shelved in favor of the Survival Guides? Impossible to know without more insider knowledge. Gygax was asked about it a few times, once on Dragonsfoot, and once in an interview, but didn't indicate any familiarity with the concept, stating that it would have been after his time. Of course, it is still possible that it was an idea that originated in his time, and he had just forgotten about it. |
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tedopon
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Post by tedopon on Mar 1, 2022 13:31:54 GMT -6
I'm sure it would have been like the original, just more of it. A book I got super excited about, bought, read, then used as a source for some extra spells and pretty much nothing else.
That said, the DSG and WSG were both useless to me. UA I at least got some new spells and the classes got used now and again...DSG had a section on isomorphic layout for dungeons that I thought was cool but never used, WSG gave me something to read in school even though I wasn't going to use any of it.
Honestly out of that era the only two I ever used beyond the spells in UA were Dragonlance and OA...neither were all that good, but I used stuff from them unlike most of the rest of that era's hardbacks. MOTP, Greyhawk, DSG and WSG were all books I owned but really just read and put on a shelf.
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 2, 2022 5:56:23 GMT -6
That image is just an advance mock-up using recycled art from the July 1984 Amazing Stories magazine cover. During that era, TSR constantly made catalog placeholders for advance products, typically using recycled artwork or rough guides. See a bunch at once from a 1985 catalog in this Acaeum thread, including products both produced and unproduced. The product code, 2020, was later assigned to the Wilderness Survival Guide, which was published November 1986, pretty close to the projected date (October 1986) for the Unearthed Arcana II in the catalog listing. Now, was the Unearthed Arcana II simply an undeveloped placeholder so retailers could place advance orders, or was it an actual in-development project that was shelved in favor of the Survival Guides? Impossible to know without more insider knowledge. Gygax was asked about it a few times, once on Dragonsfoot, and once in an interview, but didn't indicate any familiarity with the concept, stating that it would have been after his time. Of course, it is still possible that it was an idea that originated in his time, and he had just forgotten about it. I prefer to think that somewhere there is a draft copy in someone's attic. One day it will be discovered and shared. |
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Post by Falconer on Mar 2, 2022 15:25:27 GMT -6
It doesn’t have Gary Gygax’s name on the cover. It sounds like it’s the WSG.
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 2, 2022 18:03:28 GMT -6
After talking with a few people, and IM'ing Jon Petersen about it, I gather it was a collection of EGG's Sorceror's Scroll columns, the character classes he mentioned, and some other stuff. But it was abandoned for 2e. Interestingly it may have taken the form of a 3 ring binder so content could be added to it.
A terrible idea IMHO.
I still like to ponder that there may have been a working draft, however rough, somewhere. I guess we could just gather Gary's Articles that didn't make it into Unearthed Arcana, and guess what Mystic, Savant, and Mountebank classes might have looked like. Along with a hodge podge of magic items and miscellaneous stuff.
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 2, 2022 19:02:24 GMT -6
That image is just an advance mock-up using recycled art from the July 1984 Amazing Stories magazine cover. During that era, TSR constantly made catalog placeholders for advance products, typically using recycled artwork or rough guides. See a bunch at once from a 1985 catalog in this Acaeum thread, including products both produced and unproduced. The product code, 2020, was later assigned to the Wilderness Survival Guide, which was published November 1986, pretty close to the projected date (October 1986) for the Unearthed Arcana II in the catalog listing. Now, was the Unearthed Arcana II simply an undeveloped placeholder so retailers could place advance orders, or was it an actual in-development project that was shelved in favor of the Survival Guides? Impossible to know without more insider knowledge. Gygax was asked about it a few times, once on Dragonsfoot, and once in an interview, but didn't indicate any familiarity with the concept, stating that it would have been after his time. Of course, it is still possible that it was an idea that originated in his time, and he had just forgotten about it. Good compilation of what has been unearthed about it.  |
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Post by Falconer on Mar 3, 2022 0:41:17 GMT -6
Kim Mohan (who wrote WSG) was the periodicals guy, so that might be why he got the assignment in the first place, if it was supposed to be a compilation from Dragon.
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Post by asaki on Mar 6, 2022 19:47:13 GMT -6
It doesn’t have Gary Gygax’s name on the cover. I was thinking the same thing, the mockup for the first book had his name on it. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 11, 2023 12:42:45 GMT -6
Ok, so, it was never a real book or even in real production. That doesn't stop us from having fun and speculating what would have been in the book! What do you think?
New classes, races, spells, magic items? Those are a given right, but what else might have been there. Probably pulled from the pages of Dragon magazine.
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Post by Finarvyn on May 11, 2023 13:29:21 GMT -6
I'm sure it would have been like the original... With the awesome quality binding, we hope.  |
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Post by tacojohn4547 on May 11, 2023 14:42:46 GMT -6
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Post by tdenmark on May 11, 2023 16:16:58 GMT -6
I can confirm that the Heroic Legendarium is fantastic. Every old-school D&D fan should get a copy. Thanks for pointing to the Book of Lost Lore! I don't know how I missed that one. |
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Post by tdenmark on May 11, 2023 16:23:26 GMT -6
Here is the TOC for The Heroic Legendarium, a pretty good summary of things that could have been in UA2. Honestly, I'm not sure what else I'd add (or even take out). This book really nails it.
CHARACTER GENERATION SUMMARY 6
CHARACTER RACES
Miscellaneous Character Race Notes
New Character Races 7
CHARACTER CLASSES
Miscellaneous Character Class Notes 10
Mystic 13
Hunter 15
Savant 17
Mountebank 20
Bard 23
Jester 26
SECONDARY CHARACTERISTICS
Socio-Economic Class 28
Birth Order 29
Appearance 29
Joss 29
Knacks and Quirks 30
Secondary Skills 32
MONEY 34
EQUIPPING THE CHARACTER
Basic Equipment and Supplies Costs 34
Carrying Capacities 34
WEAPONS 35
Miscellaneous Weapon Notes 36
HIRELINGS
Hiring Men-at-Arms 36
CHARACTER SPELLS
Spell Tables 38
Miscellaneous Spell Notes 42
Mystic Spells 43
Savant Spells 49
Mountebank Spells 63
Bard Spells 64
PSYCHIC TALENTS 76
FOCUSED ENERGY ACTIVATION TECHNIQUES 77
HABITS OF HIGHLY EFFECTIVE PLAYERS 78
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Post by tacojohn4547 on May 11, 2023 20:09:48 GMT -6
I can confirm that the Heroic Legendarium is fantastic. Every old-school D&D fan should get a copy. Thanks for pointing to the Book of Lost Lore! I don't know how I missed that one. You’re welcome, Thom. That book had a different title early on, before Joe released the core game. It was initially released as a bridging book, to bridge between TSR’s AD&D first edition and Joe’s AD&D. The old title was A Curious Volume of Forgotten Lore. I think Joe said the content was mostly the same, but that the newer version had a little more material added. |
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