Gygax' first dragon?

[captainjapan]

Sorry, if this was already answered, but can someone tell me the first time Gary Gygax, himself, actually used a dragon as a monster for one of the TSR publications. I don't mean, when did he stat a dragon type to include in the rules. I mean, when did he use one to creative effect, like in a published adventure?

[howandwhy99]

There are dragons in G1-G3. S1 is earlier, but I don't recall any in the tomb.

[geoffrey]

The very first such use is the mated pair of white dragons in G2: Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl.

Second, there is a red dragon in G3: Hall of the Fire Giant King.

[captainjapan]

Thanks, guys. Just the info I needed

[Zenopus]

FWIW, there are also early TSR-published dragons in Monster & Treasure Assortments, Vol 2 (1977) and 3 (1978). However, the authorship is a bit ambiguous because the products don't credit anyone and Ernie Gygax has said that he rolled up the tables while working at TSR after school (though the results aren't strictly possible from any particular known table).

[captainjapan]

Zenopus said:

...the results aren't strictly possible from any particular known table.

Interesting. I'm looking at set 2 from 1980 (the only one I have access to), but according to the Acaeum's list of changes for that compiled version of M&TA, the metallic dragons have all been replaced by chromatic ones. Is the reason for this, to somehow make the dragons more compatible with Moldvay?

I'm going to have to drill down further on the chronology of AD&D material as it was first being developed. In particular, how Gary was testing it at the conventions and revising pre-AD&D, re: Basic, supplements to comport with the new core hardcovers (circa 1977).

[Zenopus]

Feb 17, 2022 9:28:04 GMT -6 captainjapan said:

Zenopus said:

...the results aren't strictly possible from any particular known table.

Interesting. I'm looking at set 2 from 1980 (the only one I have access to), but according to the Acaeum's list of changes for that compiled version of M&TA, the metallic dragons have all been replaced by chromatic ones. Is the reason for this, to somehow make the dragons more compatible with Moldvay?

Yes, definitely. The only metallic dragon in B/X is the Gold Dragon. My guess is that this is because it was the only one in the LBBs, the others being added in Greyhawk, and TSR was trying to distinguish the D&D and AD&D lines at the time.

* * * * *

I remembered another early module, from before the G-series, with a Gygaxian dragon or two. The Lost Caverns of Tsojconth, 300 copies of which were produced for Wintercon in 1976, has two dragons: a Copper Dragon in the Lesser Caverns, and a Bronze Dragon in the Greater Caverns, each of neutral alignment. There's a full write-up for each, including behavior and spells known, and a stat block in the "Monster Characteristics" table.

There are also two Fire Lizards, from the Blackmoor supplement, which are dragon adjacent, also being known as the 'false dragon'.

[captainjapan]

Zenopus said:

I remembered another early module, from before the G-series, with a Gygaxian dragon or two. The Lost Caverns of Tsojconth...

That clenches it for me. The first "published" TSR adventure written by Gygax, himself; Tsojconth has to be the answer to the OP.

So, Tsojcanth debuted at Wintercon, Detroit, late in '76. The copper dragon and bronze dragon encounters comport to the Greyhawk stats for those monsters, having h.p. totals at the very top of their ranges. Claw/claw/bite damage isn't consistent with Greyhawk, because it's a tournament module. Gygax (Kuntz?) is supposed to have assigned the monsters average damage to speed play, but the claw and bite damages look arbitrary to me. No, I don't think that the author yet had the AD&D Monster Manual (late '77) in mind when stat-ing these dragons, if only because there are no neutral aligned dragons in the Monster Manual. Both of these dragons are Neutral which IS an option in Supp. 1 Greyhawk. I'll say these are od&d dragons.

Fire Lizards are odd. Mottled, says Supp. 2 Blackmoor. They seem more powerful than, say, the pseudo-dragons which may have been their AD&D replacements. For the AD&D version of Tsojcanth, the copper dragon was replaced with something called a Gorgimera.