Greg Svenson & D.H. Boggs on Wandering DMs Feb-13

[delta]

This Sunday I'll be joined by Greg Svenson & D.H. Boggs to talk about their re-discovery and publication of Greg's "Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg". Greg, of course, is "The Great Svenny" from Arneson's Blackmoor campaign, and sole survivor of the first-ever dungeon delve. His Tonisborg megadungeon was set in Blackmoor and designed in 1973, using a draft version of D&D before it was actually published.

Our show airs live Sunday at 1 PM ET on YouTube and Twitch, and we take live viewer chat during the program. Any questions I should queue up for Greg & D.H. before the show?

[geoffrey]

I read a review of Tonisborg that mentioned something that warms my heart: "[T]he dungeon as originally stocked is teeming with monsters - almost every room is occupied by a creature (or several creatures, more often that not), and frequently in spaces that challenge any notions of dungeon ecology."

I'd be a rich man if I had a dollar for every time I've heard something like, "Oh, all the old dungeons in the Twin Cities and in Lake Geneva were mostly uninhabited, with monsters in only about 20% or 25% of the rooms. Gary's A/D&D modules [most of which are packed to the gills with monsters] were atypical and only for tournaments."

Ha! Tonisborg shows that to be false. My liking for monster-filled dungeons (mine typically have about 80% of the rooms inhabited) was shared at least by some and at least as far back as 1973, and D&D doesn't go back much before that.

I also understand that the updated maps and keys for the "Dungeons of Tonisborg" comprise about 40 or so pages of the $100 deluxe book. I wish that those 40 pages would be published all by themselves in paperback for $20 or so. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

[delta]

Feb 11, 2022 16:34:38 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

I read a review of Tonisborg...

I hear a lot of that! I will say that in my opinion, (a) the hardcover book is beautifully produced, and (b) I think it's pretty clever to include Dan's "Zero Edition Dungeoneering" (ZED) rules, based on research into Arneson/Gygaxian practices, such that you've got entire game system + megadungeon campaign all in one volume. Among the goals was to provide a complete turnkey solution to newbies, and I really respect that. Just add dice and shake.

[waysoftheearth]

Perhaps it's another example of the printed rules describing one thing while the the authors' games illustrate something different. The earliest games would predate U&WA and its dungeon generation method, so... is it plausible the empty room rule is a later piece that the authors never really went with?

[dicebro]

I am very interested in listening to them talk about the Minnesota group with as few interruptions as possible. 

‘Who were the less known gamers in the Minnesota group?  What can be remembered about them?

Thanks.

[geoffrey]

Feb 11, 2022 22:27:29 GMT -6 delta said:

I think it's pretty clever to include Dan's "Zero Edition Dungeoneering" (ZED) rules, based on research into Arneson/Gygaxian practices, such that you've got entire game system + megadungeon campaign all in one volume. Among the goals was to provide a complete turnkey solution to newbies, and I really respect that. Just add dice and shake.

I agree 100%.

[geoffrey]

Here's a question for the show:

The 1974 D&D rules state, "As a general rule there will be far more uninhabited space on a level than there will be space occupied by monsters, human or otherwise." Tonisborg, in contrast, has far more inhabited space than unoccupied space. Do you think that Tonisborg's high density of monsters was the norm back in the day, or do you think that Tonisborg was the exception?

(Of course, feel free to re-word that.)

[delta]

Feb 12, 2022 11:20:58 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Here's a question for the show:

The 1974 D&D rules state, "As a general rule there will be far more uninhabited space on a level than there will be space occupied by monsters, human or otherwise." Tonisborg, in contrast, has far more inhabited space than unoccupied space. Do you think that Tonisborg's high density of monsters was the norm back in the day, or do you think that Tonisborg was the exception?

(Of course, feel free to re-word that.)

I like that, I think I definitely have to work something like that in.

[DungeonDevil]

$100 book? No discounted PDF for us retirees on a fixed income?! Come on, man!

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2022 21:35:14 GMT -6 DungeonDevil said:

$100 book? No discounted PDF for us retirees on a fixed income?! Come on, man!

I rather imagine that they will not have a PDF for years, not until they are fully convinced the book market has been exhausted and there may be a $50-75 soft cover first. Is it worth the price, only to a subset of hard core fans would be my guess. It is way outside a price point that would work for many of us. 

[retrorob]

Thank you Mr Svenson, Mr Boggs and Mr Collins, it was good to see you I hope Tonisborg will be published as pdf some day.

[Desparil]

Yes, a great interview that inspired me to check out Tonisborg as well! Sadly, I did not buy it either as there was no PDF option and a premium hardcover such as this isn't in the cards for me right now.