Hmmm...Sorcery Points

[thegreyelf]

I just had an idea. This isn't even REMOTELY fleshed out or playable at this time, but it's something that just wormed its way into my brain that I might mess around with.

Sorcery points.

This would enhance magic use in a D&D game and supplement (rather than replace) the existing Vancian rules.

The idea is that there are things you can do which would earn you Sorcery Points. You can spend Sorcery points for one-off castings of spells. A given spell would cost as many sorcery points as its level, so a 9th level spell costs 9 sorcery points.

To earn them, you have to do things in game that are typically ritualistic: make sacrifices, perform specific rituals with specific ingredients on certain nights of the year, and the like.

Now here's the fun part: anyone can do this. If you're a fighting-man or thief, however, you'd need some way of learning a spell. Say, for example, you could use sorcery points to cast a spell written on a scroll, even though fighting men can't usually use scrolls.

It's a pretty straightforward concept; I'd need to come up with a list of ritual practices and how many sorcery points each grants. They could also theoretically be a way for spellcasters to fire off higher level spells than they normally could--what if a third level magic user who had fireball in their spellbook but isn't high enough level yet to memorize it, had spell points to cast it?

Sure, it'd change the power dynamic of the game, but by making it available across the board that helps to balance the new dynamic.

Anyway, just a thought. I'm sure it's not for everyone. Maybe not even for most. It's just an intriguing thought experiment.

[talysman]

I once wrote up some loose rules about something like this, except the "points" have an in-gameworld manifestation. I can't remember what I called it. "Concrete Magic Points"? "Materialistic Mana"? Something like that.

[cometaryorbit]

Dec 5, 2021 14:29:08 GMT -6 talysman said:

I once wrote up some loose rules about something like this, except the "points" have an in-gameworld manifestation. I can't remember what I called it. "Concrete Magic Points"? "Materialistic Mana"? Something like that.

Aren't there some old Blackmoor references that talk about spells like they are physical objects, being brewed by magic-users or turned out in the Egg of Coot's factories, etc.?

Also, there was something about magical berries powering spells...

Actualized in-world magic points could work like that, being arcane ingredients used to power spells.

[Starbeard]

I like it. Anything that gets FM casting magic is a big plus in my book. It's a handy way to limit their ability to do so as well, if you limit the ways they can receive magic points: sure your FM has learned how to cast fly, but he needs to accumulate the points before he can use it.

You could even have sorcery potions, that give a die roll of points when ingested, usable within the hour or they go away.

They might need to be scaled though, as a Level 7 spell isn't exactly equal to seven Level 1 spells. Maybe the cost is Spell level squared? That might be too much, but somewhere in between could work. That way the big heavy stuff requires some real potent mojo rituals to access, "serious offers only."

[thegreyelf]

Dec 6, 2021 22:56:57 GMT -6 Starbeard said:

I like it. Anything that gets FM casting magic is a big plus in my book. It's a handy way to limit their ability to do so as well, if you limit the ways they can receive magic points: sure your FM has learned how to cast fly, but he needs to accumulate the points before he can use it.

You could even have sorcery potions, that give a die roll of points when ingested, usable within the hour or they go away.

They might need to be scaled though, as a Level 7 spell isn't exactly equal to seven Level 1 spells. Maybe the cost is Spell level squared? That might be too much, but somewhere in between could work. That way the big heavy stuff requires some real potent mojo rituals to access, "serious offers only."

I mean, I've used spell point systems for AD&D and even wrote up the system for Castles & Crusades and Amazing Adventures that uses linear costs (a spell costs spell level +1 to cast) and it hasn't been a power issue at all. It works out just fine.

That being said, the simple idea that getting sorcery points (in this way) requires some sort of ritualistic practice and/or sacrifice to get one spell point would still act as a limiting factor. You just don't have rituals that give more than 1 or 2 points and they require genuine effort in game to make it happen. You could, I suppose, stack things, so maybe burning a very rare and valuable incense while conducting an animal sacrifice at the precise moment the full moon reaches its zenith on a specific night of the year might net you, say, 4 spell points (one for each element) but you can only do that once per year, and it requires a rare and expensive component.

[Deleted]

Update us about your idea if you develop it any further.

In my games I was using the Sorcerer's HP as ritual material for recharging Sorcery Points.
It was based on Swords and Deviltry, right in the beginning we can see Gray Mouser sacrificing his own health to power his sorcery and he almost died in the process.

Since my game was Swords and Sorcery themed, more precisely The Hyborian Age where magic is also something obscure, I decided to go for the "sacrifice" approach, so burning 1 HP would allow the Sorcerer/MU to cast a 1st level spell, or to cast a spell greater than his current magical ability. This way he could hunter other Sorcerers for powerful magic even if he couldn't cast it normally, but he would still be able to make use of greater level spells by sacrificing his own blood and health.

[plethon]

I like the idea. I think it would be important to keep the rituals truly unique as you say and make them different for each character. Perhaps you could introduce the idea of diminishing returns in order to not make the process seem rote, for example maybe a chaotic fighter sacrifices a human victim for 2 sorcery points, but the next time he makes the same sacrifice he only gets 1 sorcery point; he would have to embellish the ritual or else bring in more victims, find a better location, etc. Maybe the entities have a % chance of sending the sacrificer on a Quest when they are contacted during the Ritual.

[thegreyelf]

Dec 13, 2021 9:20:27 GMT -6 @jacksonbenete said:

Update us about your idea if you develop it any further.

In my games I was using the Sorcerer's HP as ritual material for recharging Sorcery Points.
It was based on Swords and Deviltry, right in the beginning we can see Gray Mouser sacrificing his own health to power his sorcery and he almost died in the process.

Since my game was Swords and Sorcery themed, more precisely The Hyborian Age where magic is also something obscure, I decided to go for the "sacrifice" approach, so burning 1 HP would allow the Sorcerer/MU to cast a 1st level spell, or to cast a spell greater than his current magical ability. This way he could hunter other Sorcerers for powerful magic even if he couldn't cast it normally, but he would still be able to make use of greater level spells by sacrificing his own blood and health.

Have you seen my Hyborian Age OD&D trilogy? You can find it at www.grey-elf.com/

Dec 17, 2021 12:16:39 GMT -6 plethon said:

I like the idea. I think it would be important to keep the rituals truly unique as you say and make them different for each character. Perhaps you could introduce the idea of diminishing returns in order to not make the process seem rote, for example maybe a chaotic fighter sacrifices a human victim for 2 sorcery points, but the next time he makes the same sacrifice he only gets 1 sorcery point; he would have to embellish the ritual or else bring in more victims, find a better location, etc. Maybe the entities have a % chance of sending the sacrificer on a Quest when they are contacted during the Ritual.

That's a good idea, the concept that you can't just do the same thing over and over again.