The Fun Factor

[derv]

This isn't likely to be terribly conclusive. In fact it may just show how different we all are. But the question is simple- What are the key elements you consider to be fun in a roleplaying game? What are those things you try to include to maximize the Fun Factor of your games?

I'm not specifically asking about old school roleplaying. I am asking about RPG's and what you and/or your group personally enjoy. What are the key factors for creating maximum fun?

This question arose because there are a couple different games I like to run that have varying levels of reception from my group. One of the differences I noticed regarded in game rewards. Some games have simplified the distribution and counting of treasure. It doesn't matter that experience and the ability to level up has also been simplified. The simplification of the reward creates a dissatisfaction in the overall game experience, a break in the players ability to suspend their disbelief. We are talking about the difference between 1000 gold pieces and 10 gold piece, as way of example. The reality is my players like finding true treasure hoards and when they do it maximizes the Fun Factor.

I'm looking to compile a list of ideas that can be used to evaluate the play experience. I'm thinking it will be rather short. There must be some core concepts that have become obvious over the years. Though I might be mistaken.

If you could, instead of a list, would you write your comment(s) in the form of a comparative statement. In other words, X is fun compared to Y. In my case, finding large treasure hoards is more fun for my players then finding small ones regardless of the games advancement mechanic.

There is no right or wrong answer here. So, people should reframe from arguing if you don't agree with another persons opinion. Opinions are all I'm asking for and we all know what they say about opinions.

It might also be helpful if you clarify whether you're speaking from a players POV or a GM's.

[derv]

I'm going to go ahead and throw this out there right away because I think it will be one of the most obvious- Character Death. Put simply, having your character killed, especially when it is a less than glorious fashion, is not overly fun. In the context of old school play it is billed as a staple. New school games have seemed to swing the other way which tends to dampen the risk factor of combat and adventuring in general making it somewhat dull in my opinion. Again, not fun.

My answer is an expansion of the Saving Throw Table. This is pretty much in keeping with the origins of the mechanic where in a wargame it was a question of what casualties were permanent. So, I have added a sixth column to the table- Mortality. It's meant to cover every other area of certain death not covered on the table, especially a mortal blow. A successful save puts the character out of action for the remainder of the session, but they may live to fight another day. Hit point restoration through rest would be as normal.

	F (1-3) MU (1-5) C (1-4)	F (4-6) MU (6-10) C (5-8)	F (7-9) MU (11-15) C (9-12)	F (10+) MU (16+) C (13+)
Mortality	14	12	10	8
CON modifier to roll	18 (+2)	14-17 (+1)	9-13 (0)	3-8 (-1)

Admittedly I think this is a rather generous compromise.

[Finarvyn]

For me, the #1 "fun factor" for gaming is the social interaction. This was made painfully clear to me when my group tried to play D&D remote on the computer, and I found that nobody really had much fun. (Could have been that one adventure, but I felt it went deeper than that.)

My #2 would be rules familiarity. While I enjoy reading new rules systems, I find that my retention of new rules isn't what it used to be. Also, my group doesn't really like to try new rules sets. I can run 5E with them or "old school" (which includes a blend of OD&D, DCC, C&C, AD&D, and other compatible D&D rules sets) but when I try something else I get a lot of pushback. The exception here might be Vaesen, which they have been asking for me to run. (And once I open the floodgates on Free League products I have a whole shelf of others I might be able to run.)

#3 is more abstract, but sort of mirrors derv's mortality concept. My group wants a continual fear of character death without actually having character death, which is a tough thing to swing but they are pretty solid in what they like.

From there we run into several which are pretty much even. My group likes magic in their gaming. My group prefers fantasy to science fiction. My group likes short campaigns over longer ones. My group enjoys being "murder hobos" and often struggles with being diplomats. I love playing human fighters, but my group wants a bunch of "uniques" and has no problem with the party resembling a group from the Mos Eisley cantina. My group would love to play high level characters with tons of badazz magic items, but are willing to play low-to-medium level characters with only occasional magical goodies.

Not sure if this is at all what you are looking for, but it's what came to mind first.

[Deleted]

One of the big things for me as a player is in-game player problem-solving as opposed to mechanical problem solving through die rolls. So, for example, having to solve a riddle or figure out how a mechanical device works or how to manipulate surroundings to open a door. That kind of thing. Games with elaborate skill lists tend to lose my interest quickly because rolling a die to resolve these kinds of things is boring. And that's not to say die rolls are never appropriate (an open doors roll for mundane dungeon door that is just stuck, for example).

[Deleted]

Even in a beer and pretzels game, there must be character consequences for actions. I am playing in a game right now where it is impossible to be killed, a waste of time, even though I like the people at the table.

Related, while it is true people enjoy rolling dice, every dice roll should mean something. Like a boat with a small hole, meaningless dice rolls drain away the fun.

I enjoy games where gold and magic items are at a premium. The struggle is part of the fun.

Tracking food and water consumption is not fun. The exception is change of pace survival expeditions.

[derv]

Finarvyn, totally get #1. I'll take in person gaming any day of the week. Fun way to meet new people at conventions. Even more enjoyable with a group of well known friends and family.

How do you promote a game of murdering hobos? Is this tied in with your point #3?

Otherwise it sounds like you are heavy on promoting choice for your players, which I think is a good thing.


@dungeonmonkey, I had a feeling someone was going to bring up problem solving elements for a different pace in the game. How do you enjoy interacting with puzzles and problems? Do you like the dialogue in the abstract or prefer to have a physical prop or illustration? Or is it the team element of problem solving itself that makes it entertaining?


@noteef, if you had to gauge the idea of struggle for reward, how would you make it happen in your game?

[Deleted]

I zoom way in on elements of the game and find a way to add drama.

The party returns from a super lucky trip to the dungeon with 3000 gold. Now what?

The easy thing to do would be let them note their sheet and have it exist in limbo somewhere. Instead maybe getting the gold is half the story.

Do they have the guts to hide it? Keep it in the rooms they are staying in? Do they go from tattered adventures to having brand new gear, possibly attracting attention?

The party finds a ring that emits some sort of power. Instead of placing an NPC to easily identify items in town, perhaps it is beyond the power of the local sage, and instead the party needs to seek out his mentor who lives in a dangerous part of the forest.

Gear should break or wear out overtime. Brand new gear is maybe harder to obtain than pulling from a list.

The trick is not to go overboard. Also, you need seriously vibrant NPCs to do this or they attribute it to the referee.

[howandwhy99]

So Russell Hammond. What do you love about music?



I'll have to get back to you. Great topic.

[Deleted]

When I'm running a game, it's seeing the unexpected and unique ways different people tackle the same types of problems and scenarios over the years. You can use the exact same starter town/dungeon/quest hook setup with 10 different groups and get 10 entirely different sessions.

[tetramorph]

Per session:

Going to the edge of character death and somehow surviving. The danger was due to:

Dangerous puzzles, loss of resources, confused mapping, getting in a fight. But we get out of it so there is:

Laughter around solving a shared challenge, usually in some funny way. It is funny because there are:

Jokes that players get that characters don't have to. Usually due to:

Shared obscure cultural references we know from growing up together.

Over all:

A sense that I have some power and influence on the world because I am strong, intelligent, wise, or some combination of the above. This is in contrast to the fact that I have little power, influence, strength, intelligence, or wisdom (okay maybe I'm selling myself a bit short on the last couple) in this world and I wish I had more of what it takes to make this world a better place.

Sticking-it-out towards the long-term goal of establishing law, order, safety and provision in a chaotic world that hurts the little folks.

For e.g., my FM9 Nimrod Chaos Hammer, recently established a barony in the Hollow Lands (OS Board) near the mountain pass in the central east of the lands. He took over a previously evil citadel in the pass. He has begun to establish villages and invest in the economy, for example, textiles, etc. He has begun to build up religion for his people, with large church-building projects, calling (non crusading) clerics to come in and minister to the people, establish monasteries and schools, etc.

That is fun.

[Deleted]

As a player, the fun factor of tabletop roleplaying games is that to a much greater degree than in computer games, I'm free to attempt to go anywhere or do anything within the game world. Seeing how different GMs/referees react to this or the degree to which they indulge some of my ideas and tactics is fascinating. I've been railroaded into a certain quest line before, which isn't so fun but still interesting, and I've been given "free reign" which also probably isn't such a good idea because I'm a tinkerer. I think I have the most fun when a GM kind of takes the "middle path" and indulges my quirks and whims but works them into something in service of a good story that works for the entire party.

[derv]

I'd like to compile a list of sorts. I'll probably just add it to my opening post. Maybe I'll wait a bit to see if there are others who would like to chime in on the subject. My thought is a list of broadly defined categories that emerge. Then some corresponding ideas on how to achieve those ideals. Hopefully it can be presented in a rather system agnostic manner. A GM could then take such a list and give them a try in an attempt to improve their own campaign. At least it could be used as a brainstorm starter.

As way of example, PLAYER CHOICE seems to be a reoccurring concept. This may have to be broken up into a couple different clearer categories because it is so broad and touches on the essence of roleplay itself.

Anyway, good insights from everyone.

[ahabicher]

My # 1 fun factor is freedom.
As a player, the freedom to go left instead of right, to talk with the big bad instead of fighting him, to steal from my employer instead of from the mark. To go off the rails and do weird things, which is the reason why I like rpgs and am not fond of computer games, which must, for logical reasons, put in some rails to lead you from A to B.
As a GM, the freedom to react to whatever the players do and create a totally unforeseen situation, that evolves out of decisions and reactions.

Therefore, my # 1 funspoil is when strict interpretations of the written rules get in the way and say no. Like, no, you can't use a flipped table as a cover, because the rules don't cover that. In the whole rulebook, there is no mention of flipped tables, so they do not exist. That is the playstyle that stops my fun.

# 2 fun factor is exploring my fictious persona, so I like to roll randomly to find out who I am.
# 2 funspoil is the concept of "party must be balanced" so we have all roles covered. I don't want all roles covered. I like it when we have the problem that there is no wizard in the party and we must make do without magic, or when we have no fighter and must avoid violence extra-hard. And I like it when the party does NOT pick the optimal course of effective action that has the best chances for success.

# 3 fun factor is to watch the world grow like a living setting. To save a random NPC and later see him as he opens a little shop, and meets an elf girl, and has a life.
But I can live with static backgrounds, they are acceptable.

I have no strong opinion about levelling. I like games without character growth (mechanical character growth!) just as well as those with gains.
I personally know and play with people with very different opinions though.

People who derive fun from building a well-oiled machine of a party that can tackle every situation.
People who derive fun from being able to predict what will happen next, who like to count squares and even do median damage with every attack so they can calculate and be tactical.
And people who need the level-up for fun.
And people who think that NPC background is a waste of valuable playing time.

So more important than a list of fun factors is to mix and balance the factors that are right for that particular group of players.
There is a very good book (booklet) about this, Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering.
It has many critics, and it certainly is not the know-all-end-all, but it has the right ideas.

[howandwhy99]

D&D as a point scoring hidden simulation game where we have to note take or remember what's happened in order to understand and succeed. That's D&D fun for me.

I love the uncertainty of every situation, but also the anticipation based off past experiences. That we live or die based off our own actions. But we also lead ourselves, go and do what we want, and are better and worse for it.

Playing with magic. Outplaying the monsters. Discovering new areas we didn't know were there. Noticing connections we hadn't spotted before, or even forgotten. Scoring points and leveling up! Getting really lucky when it really pays off.

All kinds of stuff. To me, D&D is awesome and addictive for most all reasons videogames are. I swear CRPGs are the true inheritors of old School RPGs and closer to their actual play and appeal than most anything published today.

[aramis]

In general, my metric is

• meaningful choices
• Interesting story
• everyone gets "screen time"

By meaningful, I mean choices for which enough information is given that the outcome of the choice will seem reasonable, and for which the choice matters to the ongoing story. Choices which have no story impact are not meaningful. Choices which have story impact but no information upon which to base the choice are likewise not meaningful.

I prefer that everyone gets relatively equal screen time...

[tombowings]

As a DM I enjoy:
* World building
* Seeing the way player's react to the various feature of my world
* The adrenaline rush that comes with improvisation
* Making funny voices for NPCs (Sue me. I'm a theater geek. I wrote my master's thesis on the influence of Roman drama on Shakespeare.)
* Tinkering with rules

As a player:
* I don't remember. It's been 10 years since I've played in and not DMed a game.

[oldskolgmr]

As a Player I (currently) enjoy: #1 socializing, even on a VTT across the country. I get to meet new people, talk about new ideas, and joke around. 
                                             #2 playing my character (building my character's personality, slowly).
                                             #3 (I'm prepared for the Board to mock me) joining in story. (Oral storytelling fascinates me). 

As a GM I have (in the past) enjoyed: #1 watching my players react to the situations I put them in. I usually give the players a scripted opening, and I build the story from there.
                                                                         (I've never had the opportunity to run a sandbox game, but I would like to try now). 
                                                       #2 playing the roles of the NPCs the player deal with. (I'm the GM who tries accents and even an improvised prop). 
                                                       #3 creating a story that my players enjoy. 

[thegreyelf]

For me:
1. Fellowship and social interaction. It must be in person. VTTs and Zoom are not just poor substitutes, they're garbage and ruin the entire experience and point of tabletop gaming.
2. Rich characters. I like characters with detailed backgrounds and players who know who their characters are in a deep sense. Numbers on a page do little for me.
3. Rules light. Dice exist for one reason and one reason only: to generate a random number. Anything else is smoke and mirrors, and complex, "innovative" dice systems that "drive the story" are both a barrier to true creativity and a factor of arrogant designers declaring, "look how different I can be." If your system requires complex calculations and requires me to leave the dice on the table as I calculate what to do with the points or momentum generated by my die roll, I'm out.
4. Medium combat, high social interaction (in game), low (preferably zero) puzzles. I hate puzzles with a passion.
5. Theatre of the mind. Once tactical miniatures get involved it becomes a board game and I didn't sign on for a board game.

[dicebro]

Question: What are the key factors for creating maximum fun?

Good friends, good food, making stuff up and rolling the dice.

[Deleted]

What about bad jokes and 40 minute tangents about how time travel mechanics would work in the real world?

[Deleted]

Copious amounts of wine, d&d discussion, and flute girls. Pre pregen party!