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Post by robertsconley on Jun 3, 2021 8:02:32 GMT -6
So... interest in OD&D appears to drop off a cliff at age 60? What happens on your 61st birthday?? Mmmmm 2021-60= born around 1961 which means Around 13 when D&D was introduced in 1974. Around 16 when the Holmes boxed set was out in 1977 Around 19 when the D&D boom and hex & counter wargames boom were at their height. Off hand I would say it not surprising that the 51 to 60 age cohort is well presented as it represent those who were part of the initial upswing of interest in D&D, wargaming, and roleplaying but also old enough to have experienced the earliest editions and games. For my part, I was born in 1965 and became aware of wargames before D&D around 1977 until the release of the DMG in 1979 I was mostly a wargamer. Wasn't aware of OD&D until 1980 when I found a collector editions box in my game store (I still have the books). I would have tried using it except it was missing a crucial bit of text stating that one does 1d6 damage. Without that I didn't see the point of making a special point of trying it over my mashed up Judges Guild-AD&D-Dragon Magazine article system I was using at the time. |
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Post by delta on Jun 4, 2021 10:21:33 GMT -6
I saw this question asked in another topic, and thought it would make an interesting poll. So here it is; it's anonymous so hopefully, we can afford to be honest  Good poll. Thanks for asking this! |
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Post by Starbeard on Jun 4, 2021 23:24:21 GMT -6
Frankly there are a few more responses in their 30s than I expected. Out in the wild it seems interest in OD&D among the 40-and-under crowd is a fleeting one that quickly shifts course toward B/X or flashy OSR 'hacks'. In any case, they tend to do all their talking on different platforms than crusty old forums like this, so we wouldn't see too many of the bonafide OD&D enthusiasts anyway.
And the irony of it is that we might not actually have much in common to talk about with the younger enthusiast crowd anyway. I've poked my head around quite a few large and active Discord servers for OD&D or OSR games and felt like stepping into the Twilight Zone with most of them. The kinds of conversations and game concerns just seem so far removed from anything that has to do with me or my interest in D&D, and vice versa.
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Post by ahabicher on Jun 5, 2021 12:19:17 GMT -6
I've poked my head around quite a few large and active Discord servers for OD&D or OSR games and felt like stepping into the Twilight Zone with most of them. The kinds of conversations and game concerns just seem so far removed from anything that has to do with me or my interest in D&D, and vice versa. Can you give examples about that? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 12:37:00 GMT -6
All I can say as a guy who's "been there, done that" is that gym memberships are expensive, but most people with internet access own a pair of shoes and walking's free. It's not glamorous or anything but it's the thing you actually do every day and stick with that's gonna work for you, and most people can squeeze in 20 minutes of walking if they really want to. Totally, gym memberships are overrated. I bring my daughter to the park every afternoon. While she's playing, I do calisthenics. Works pretty well for me. No extra equipment necessary. Yeah. I do natural strength training and some yoga in addition to walking. I always kept in shape in high school but I got lazy for a decade and a half after, and my pancreas rebelled. So I had to retrain myself into good habits for keeps. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 12:39:44 GMT -6
So... interest in OD&D appears to drop off a cliff at age 60? What happens on your 61st birthday?? Based on my browsing around the forum, it seems most of the older guys are either deceased like Dave Arneson or quit the forum in a huff at some perceived slight like the original players who used to post here. |
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Post by Starbeard on Jun 5, 2021 15:21:13 GMT -6
I've poked my head around quite a few large and active Discord servers for OD&D or OSR games and felt like stepping into the Twilight Zone with most of them. The kinds of conversations and game concerns just seem so far removed from anything that has to do with me or my interest in D&D, and vice versa. Can you give examples about that? Mostly general things come to mind, I haven't kept a list. But for example, lots and lots of talk about GLOGGs or whatever those are called, and Powered by the Apocalypse. Not really a lot of concern over the historical aspects of the game or hobby, and instead more focused discussion on creating content or play philosophy credos. Basically the sort of discussion you'd see on the Forge back in the day, but focused on B/X and super simple games meant to mimic OD&D or B/X. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 16:14:28 GMT -6
Can you give examples about that? Mostly general things come to mind, I haven't kept a list. But for example, lots and lots of talk about GLOGGs or whatever those are called, and Powered by the Apocalypse. Not really a lot of concern over the historical aspects of the game or hobby, and instead more focused discussion on creating content or play philosophy credos. Basically the sort of discussion you'd see on the Forge back in the day, but focused on B/X and super simple games meant to mimic OD&D or B/X. Yeah. I never really got into all that academic game theory talk, personally. My eyes just glaze over and I start daydreaming about Orcs with lightsabers riding on bionic dinosaurs. |
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Post by DungeonDevil on Jun 5, 2021 23:55:34 GMT -6
Can you give examples about that? Mostly general things come to mind, I haven't kept a list. But for example, lots and lots of talk about GLOGGs or whatever those are called, and Powered by the Apocalypse. Not really a lot of concern over the historical aspects of the game or hobby, and instead more focused discussion on creating content or play philosophy credos. Basically the sort of discussion you'd see on the Forge back in the day, but focused on B/X and super simple games meant to mimic OD&D or B/X. If so, I approve!  |
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Post by ahabicher on Jun 6, 2021 14:11:52 GMT -6
quit the forum in a huff at some perceived slight like the original players who used to post here. That seems to be really common among roleplayers. It is baffling. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 14:18:02 GMT -6
quit the forum in a huff at some perceived slight like the original players who used to post here. That seems to be really common among roleplayers. It is baffling. Yeah. I can only say, objectively, it seems to have happened a handful of times here, mostly with "legacy" dudes, fairly high-profile people. It's sad that they're not here with us any more but it was their decision. |
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Post by badger2305 on Jun 8, 2021 15:33:19 GMT -6
So... interest in OD&D appears to drop off a cliff at age 60? What happens on your 61st birthday?? Based on my browsing around the forum, it seems most of the older guys are either deceased like Dave Arneson or quit the forum in a huff at some perceived slight like the original players who used to post here. I am NOT deceased! How dare you say that I am deceased like Dave Arneson?? I take umbrage at that! (Around here we take umbrage like others take tiffin, and darn early, too!) (J/K!!!!  ) |
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Post by badger2305 on Jun 8, 2021 15:35:33 GMT -6
That seems to be really common among roleplayers. It is baffling. Yeah. I can only say, objectively, it seems to have happened a handful of times here, mostly with "legacy" dudes, fairly high-profile people. It's sad that they're not here with us any more but it was their decision. Seriously, even though I've had to cool my own jets from time to time, I appreciate the calm atmosphere here, and I also very much appreciate the slack that others have provided to me when that's happened. It's definitely a part of why I'm back. |
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Post by raymond on Jun 8, 2021 15:50:09 GMT -6
I'll be 51 this September.
Maybe the people in their 60s aren't using computers.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 17:06:29 GMT -6
Based on my browsing around the forum, it seems most of the older guys are either deceased like Dave Arneson or quit the forum in a huff at some perceived slight like the original players who used to post here. I am NOT deceased! How dare you say that I am deceased like Dave Arneson?? I take umbrage at that! (Around here we take umbrage like others take tiffin, and darn early, too!) (J/K!!!! ) Well, if you have to be deceased, at least try to be deceased like Dave. Then you'll be in good company! |
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Post by mrmanowar on Jun 8, 2021 19:32:33 GMT -6
Considering I wasn't born yet when OD&D came out, I'm a little younger. However, I do like the game. I don't get too many chances to play it apart from conventions. One thing I do say about my age is this: "I'm past my sell by date, but praise the Lord I haven't reached my expiration date!"
Hope to play this again at some point! Right now, I'm running AD&D, 5E, and Hyperboria depending on who's playing on any given day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2021 13:22:30 GMT -6
I find it interesting, you know, how this forum shades younger than you might assume. You hear all these derogatory comments out on the wider internet that guys who play older editions have nostalgia blinders in, but a big chunk of people who answered this poll ended up on a forum dedicated to a rules set they didn't even have access to growing up. I never read OD&D until I was in my thirties. It was nearly 40 years old when I gave it a shake, after trying out retro-clones. I simply didn't know any such thing as OD&D existed when I was a kid. I played a game called D&D and that was that. Nobody said "BECMI" back then lol
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Post by tkdco2 on Jun 12, 2021 18:45:13 GMT -6
Did terms like B/X and BECMI even exist before the d20/OSR era? I only knew D&D and AD&D. I may have used terms like 1st and 2nd Edition, but IIRC, the 1e/2e/3e abbreviations didn't exist until 3e came around.
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Post by Starbeard on Jun 12, 2021 22:27:37 GMT -6
I don't think they did, or at least they didn't have any sense of authority. I did a search of old newsgroups a few years ago, and found that while OD&D was definitely used here and there in the 90s, the entire non-AD&D line was often grouped as a single entity, and everyone had their own term for it. OD&D, BD&D and CD&D were strong contenders for most used, I seem to remember.
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Post by tkdco2 on Jun 12, 2021 22:35:50 GMT -6
I remember pointing a friend to either these boards or the Dragonsfoot boards to see discussions about the early editions. Not having followed the discussions, he was confused about the OD&D label until I told him O stood for original.
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Post by Greyharp on Jun 12, 2021 22:43:02 GMT -6
Did terms like B/X and BECMI even exist before the d20/OSR era? I only knew D&D and AD&D. I may have used terms like 1st and 2nd Edition, but IIRC, the 1e/2e/3e abbreviations didn't exist until 3e came around.
There was definitely a period early on in the d20/osr era when the term OD&D was being widely used by fans of Basic D&D to describe their version/s of choice - what we'd now refer to as B/X and BECMI. A good example of this is the OD&Dities zine. I remember when lovers of 0e started using the term OD&D, it caused confusion in some circles. |
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Post by jonsalway on Jun 13, 2021 4:03:52 GMT -6
This is fascinating and not unexpected both at the same time. I guess it shows that a significant group of the membership were likely to have been original buyers of the game. I was fourteen in '76 and got one of the first boxes to arrive in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 5:35:34 GMT -6
I remember pointing a friend to either these boards or the Dragonsfoot boards to see discussions about the early editions. Not having followed the discussions, he was confused about the OD&D label until I told him O stood for original. Oddly enough, there are still holdouts who swear it stands for "old D&D" and applies to anything older than d20 lol |
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Post by tetramorph on Jun 13, 2021 17:11:07 GMT -6
I was born in August 1974, when D&D was 7 months old.
I bought Dragon Raid in fourth grade, because the Satanic Panic had me frightened into thinking that if I played the (obviously cooler) "real" game, I might just go to hell. I tried to get a group together but they were ding-bat fourth graders and fifth graders (second try) so it was a no go. (I even made my own little club "handbook" on my grandfather's manual typewriter and had my mom photocopy it for me at the local Kinko's. I still have it! I love that kid. I am still he!).
My "cool" friend who had a bunch of scary halloween masks and posters of Iron Maiden on his wall (creepy!) had all the AD&D core books. He was my "DM" and ran a bunch of solo adventure for me. I played Aldebaran the Illusionist, because I thought if I played a "real" magic user I might go to hell. He was, of course, lawful good. Everything else was too scary. I remember running away from a vampire and my buddy just rolling around laughing! Fun times.
Then high school. Then college, masters, ph.d., career. I got back into music and purchased synthesizers I always wished I could have.
On a family vacation on the beach in the summer of 2013, as I was shaking my head at the video games the young ones were playing, I remembered that old video game Gauntlet. Then I remembered D&D. So I did a BUNCH of internet research. I got back home and started making some purchases. I looked up "original d&d" on Meetup. Fortunately, for me, there was a strong and Meetup-visible OD&D crowd in Austin at just that time. I found myself, as a professional adult, driving to the local hobby shop to play D&D for the first time in, what, 25 years? I felt like the kid who was afraid the kids at the playground wouldn't like him. I've been playing ever since.
I found this place and joined. My buddies at the hobby shop got me into K&KA.
I "published" a little "retro" supplement: The Perilous Realms. They form the basis of both my convention game and regular campaign house rules.
My first NTRPGCon was 2016. I ran my first games at the 2019 Con. I started play testing a potential module to share just a week ago at the 2021 Con.
My life is happier and saner because of this excellent hobby and because of you guys.
Fight on!
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Post by Finarvyn on Jun 13, 2021 18:57:01 GMT -6
I was born in August 1974, when D&D was 7 months old. It occurs to me that having a poll by year born might have been more useful than age. In a few years I might change my age demographic, but my birth year will be the same. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 16:57:12 GMT -6
I was born in August 1974, when D&D was 7 months old. It occurs to me that having a poll by year born might have been more useful than age. In a few years I might change my age demographic, but my birth year will be the same. You could always revisit the poll in a different format after some time has passed. I agree that due to the wording here, it could be confusing in five years, especially if people still vote. |
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Post by aldarron on Jun 15, 2021 6:33:00 GMT -6
I find it interesting, you know, how this forum shades younger than you might assume. You hear all these derogatory comments out on the wider internet that guys who play older editions have nostalgia blinders in, but a big chunk of people who answered this poll ended up on a forum dedicated to a rules set they didn't even have access to growing up. I never read OD&D until I was in my thirties. It was nearly 40 years old when I gave it a shake, after trying out retro-clones. I simply didn't know any such thing as OD&D existed when I was a kid. I played a game called D&D and that was that. Nobody said "BECMI" back then lol That's a point well taken. I was 5 years old when D&D was published and didn't discover the joys of OD&D until I came across this forum in, like 2008, IIRC. Its actually surprising me that the 60+ group is so sparse in the survey. If you consider that college students were the main demographich in the OD&D era of 1974-1978, the minimum age should be 61 - which is how old an 18 year old college student in 1978 would be today. It seems pretty clear to me that OD&D is a choice that people who grew up with other editions make after gaming for a while and then searching for something they like better. I bet if you took the poll fifty years from now you would get pretty much the same results. |
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Post by Starbeard on Jun 15, 2021 10:01:21 GMT -6
I expect another way to think of it is that people who grew up playing RPGs as schoolkids are more likely to continue or return to it as adults. The age group that D&D actually targeted in the 70s didn't grow up playing. However, many of them did get introduced to miniatures and board games of different stripes at a younger age. I know plenty of people aged 60-80 who played loads of D&D in the 70s, but talk about that as a passing phase. Today they're really only interested in miniature wargames.
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Post by rsdean on Jun 15, 2021 10:12:25 GMT -6
My miniatures club has a modal age of early 60s  and most of the people do have some sort of D&D background. On the other hand, I feel like it’s just an inactive phase for most of them, rather than something they’ve gorwn out of. Various RPGs that have been run as club spin-off games have gotten a lot of people to dust off their previous interests. I am hoping to recruit some of them for this year’s OD&D revival game… |
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Post by Starbeard on Jun 15, 2021 10:51:28 GMT -6
There could also be geographical differences too. Most of the older wargamers I know personally are British, so their experiences are probably a little different. A basic resistance to overt fantasy elements vs historical or sci-fi I think is the primary reason they never went back to D&D. A lot of them would enjoy a John Carter skirmish game with a heavy dose of roleplayed elements, but not so much a traditional wargame with dragons or spells.
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and most of the people do have some sort of D&D background. On the other hand, I feel like it’s just an inactive phase for most of them, rather than something they’ve gorwn out of. Various RPGs that have been run as club spin-off games have gotten a lot of people to dust off their previous interests. I am hoping to recruit some of them for this year’s OD&D revival game…