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Post by delta on May 22, 2021 4:47:36 GMT -6
In the AD&D DMG (1979), the top-end dungeon encounter tables show options for Vampires with added spell-casting class levels. (Level IX: Vampire with cleric levels 7-10; Level X: Vampire with magic-user levels 9-12). Is there any prior suggestion of that possibility -- spell-casting classed Vampires -- in earlier official materials? So: OD&D up to 1977 or so?
(There is the Lich in Sup-I noted with standard classed spell abilities, so that's at least a whisper of a precedent.)
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Post by Desparil on May 22, 2021 22:17:05 GMT -6
Wasn't Sir Fang a high-level fighter? It doesn't seem like much of an extrapolation from that to have a cleric or wizard vampire instead. I say that from experience - given the AD&D Monster Manual's suggestion that a vampire could have the abilities of a magic-user, thief, or even cleric, in one of my earliest games when I was a teenager I personally extrapolated from there and had an elven vampire who was a multi-classed fighter/mage/thief to challenge my players with.
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Post by dicebro on May 23, 2021 6:37:23 GMT -6
Wasn't Sir Fang a high-level fighter? It doesn't seem like much of an extrapolation from that to have a cleric or wizard vampire instead. I say that from experience - given the AD&D Monster Manual's suggestion that a vampire could have the abilities of a magic-user, thief, or even cleric, in one of my earliest games when I was a teenager I personally extrapolated from there and had an elven vampire who was a multi-classed fighter/mage/thief to challenge my players with. I don’t think Sir Fang was a character in a game using AD&D. |
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Post by captainjapan on May 23, 2021 7:54:12 GMT -6
None in the Dragon or Strategic Review.
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Post by Zenopus on May 23, 2021 10:07:51 GMT -6
Buried in the description of the vampire in the Monster Manual is this:
So, while magic-user isn't specifically mentioned here, it's definitely fits under the "etc" as another type of classed vampire. And the mention of clerics here certainly suggests that they retain their spell-casting powers, so one would assume the same for magic-users.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 13:40:17 GMT -6
Buried in the description of the vampire in the Monster Manual is this: So, while magic-user isn't specifically mentioned here, it's definitely fits under the "etc" as another type of classed vampire. And the mention of clerics here certainly suggests that they retain their spell-casting powers, so one would assume the same for magic-users. If nothing else, archetypal vampires like Dracula who almost certainly influenced the D&D vampire (especially Christopher Lee's Hammer films) were often steeped in occultism and could safely be said to be sorcerers/alchemists in addition to being vampires, so it fits the "Appendix N" understanding of AD&D. |
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Post by grodog on May 28, 2021 21:10:03 GMT -6
Is there any prior suggestion of that possibility -- spell-casting classed Vampires -- in earlier official materials? So: OD&D up to 1977 or so? Drelnza is a classed vampire Fighter 13, in 1976’s Lost Caverns of Tsojconth; details at www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_s4_encounters.htmlI can’t think of any other early Greyhawk vampires offhand, will root around a bit. Allan. |
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Post by cometaryorbit on May 30, 2021 15:49:58 GMT -6
Oh, cool! I always kind of forget that a lot of the AD&D modules were OD&D first...
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Post by Finarvyn on May 30, 2021 16:42:55 GMT -6
Wasn't Sir Fang a high-level fighter? It doesn't seem like much of an extrapolation from that to have a cleric or wizard vampire instead. I say that from experience - given the AD&D Monster Manual's suggestion that a vampire could have the abilities of a magic-user, thief, or even cleric, in one of my earliest games when I was a teenager I personally extrapolated from there and had an elven vampire who was a multi-classed fighter/mage/thief to challenge my players with. I don’t think Sir Fang was a character in a game using AD&D. I believe that Sir Fang was a character in Arneson's pre-OD&D Blackmoor. As such, the rules were a lot less defined at that point. |
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Post by tombowings on Jun 1, 2021 23:22:15 GMT -6
I believe that Sir Fang was a character in Arneson's pre-OD&D Blackmoor. As such, the rules were a lot less defined at that point. I always find myself forgetting this particular reality of the early game. It's the same as treating myths like modernist novels. |
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Post by delta on Jun 4, 2021 10:16:09 GMT -6
Wasn't Sir Fang a high-level fighter? It doesn't seem like much of an extrapolation from that to have a cleric or wizard vampire instead. I say that from experience - given the AD&D Monster Manual's suggestion that a vampire could have the abilities of a magic-user, thief, or even cleric, in one of my earliest games when I was a teenager I personally extrapolated from there and had an elven vampire who was a multi-classed fighter/mage/thief to challenge my players with. That's a good catch in the Monster Manual, I hadn't noticed that! |
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Post by delta on Jun 4, 2021 10:16:41 GMT -6
None in the Dragon or Strategic Review. Thank you for checking there! |
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Post by delta on Jun 4, 2021 10:17:27 GMT -6
Is there any prior suggestion of that possibility -- spell-casting classed Vampires -- in earlier official materials? So: OD&D up to 1977 or so? Drelnza is a classed vampire Fighter 13, in 1976’s Lost Caverns of Tsojconth; details at www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_s4_encounters.htmlI can’t think of any other early Greyhawk vampires offhand, will root around a bit. Allan. That's a nice one! |
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