Crimefighters (Dragon #47)

[Parzival]

I’ve had this game for decades now, and never played it (though a buddy and I did create characters back in the day).
Has anyone ever given it a try?
At the time, I though the percentile and skill system was a great idea, quite distinct from the D&D of the day— and the theme is terrific.

[tkdco2]

One of my friends expanded the rules and ran a campaign for many years. My character was a Batman-type crime fighter called The Avenger (although he was actually a Defender). Another friend played Sandman, who used knockout gas to subdue criminals.

[Parzival]

May 5, 2021 3:05:02 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

One of my friends expanded the rules and ran a campaign for many years. My character was a Batman-type crime fighter called The Avenger (although he was actually a Defender). Another friend played Sandman, who used knockout gas to subdue criminals.

Never responded to this, and I should have. How did your friend expand the rules? And how was the campaign structured?

[tkdco2]

Sept 14, 2021 14:25:40 GMT -6 Parzival said:

May 5, 2021 3:05:02 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

One of my friends expanded the rules and ran a campaign for many years. My character was a Batman-type crime fighter called The Avenger (although he was actually a Defender). Another friend played Sandman, who used knockout gas to subdue criminals.

Never responded to this, and I should have. How did your friend expand the rules? And how was the campaign structured?

My friend expanded the skills and modernized the setting, such as adding automatic weapons to the weapon lists. Not sure if the defense classes were his invention.

[Parzival]

Sept 14, 2021 23:46:45 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

Sept 14, 2021 14:25:40 GMT -6 Parzival said:

Never responded to this, and I should have. How did your friend expand the rules? And how was the campaign structured?

My friend expanded the skills and modernized the setting, such as adding automatic weapons to the weapon lists. Not sure if the defense classes were his invention.

A quick scan of the combat section makes no mention of “defense classes,” which I presume represents attempts at armor or special defensive skills— the rules make no mention of these, which seems an oversight in a pulp fiction style setting now that I think about it. Wouldn’t seem to be a hard rule to incorporate, though.

Thanks!

[jeffb]

:sticky note to check out Dragon Archive issue 47 later today:

[tkdco2]

The defense classes were detailed like this. Keep in mind I'm going from memory, so I may some details wrong.

Class A: The character can make one defense roll against a single opponent. Characters without any formal combat training have this defense class.
Class B: The character may attempt all attacks from a single opponent. Characters trained in boxing, fencing, judo, and wrestling have this defense class.
Class C: The character may defend against all attacks within his line of sight. Characters skilled in kung fu, karate, aikido or advanced weapon skills have this defense class.
Class D: As defense class C, but also allows 360 degree defense. The character must have DEX over 100 and a high skill level in martial arts in order to have this defense class.

Automatic weapons included an autofire option that gave a 35% bonus to hit. One of my friends amended the bonus to 40% for the M-16 with "REMEMBER: BUY AMERICAN!" in the margin. Autofire allowed the shooter to fire 10 bullets at once, but if he shot at multiple targets, a bullet automatically missed between successive targets. The shooter could choose how many bullets he would shoot at a certain target.

[Parzival]

Interesting— a defense roll is definitely not a thing in the rules, but makes a lot of sense. I’m curious as to the mechanic, since an attack roll is simply an ability test of either Accuracy or the average of Physical Power + Agility. Was the “defense roll” an attempt to block/avoid the attack outright, or to achieve a penalty on the attacker’s roll?

Love the “Buy American” bit. I gather y’all were using a modern setting (or at least 1960+), given the M-16 addition, rather than the original “Interwar” setting (1930’s).

[tkdco2]

We were playing in then current-day San Francisco, which ran from the late 1980s to early 1990s. When the GM moved out of state, I ran a game with one of the players. I decided to go post-apocalyptic with the campaign, where a nuclear strike took out DC in late 1991,and the country fractured. California became a nation on its own. Not sure if I could have pulled it off with the entire group, but the player I ran it for didn't have a problem with it.

I can't remember the specifics of the game mechanics. IIRC, the basic melee attack roll was the average of Physical Power and Agility. Weapons and combat skills gave bonuses. A PC could attack multiple targets, but he had to divide his attack bonus by the number of targets. Damage was determined according to the PC's Physical Power score. Defense (IIRC) was half the base attack score plus any bonuses from combat skills. If you could defend against more than one attack you rolled each defense separately. Ranged attacks were determined by the PC's accuracy score plus any weapon or skill bonuses. Since there were scores for left and right hand, the higher accuracy score determined whether the PC was left or right handed. We used percentile dice for all skill rolls including combat, but we used other polyhedral dice for damage.

[Parzival]

That all tracks with my scan of the rules, except for your house-ruled defense part of course.
From your description, I assume that a successful defense was a flat out “block” of the attack.

This game seems ideal for a single PC structure, too. It certainly meets the theme; most pulp heroes are loners, or at least use minions who are not co-equal nor co-capable.

I like your modern day take and the post apoc spinoff idea. But I’d rather do the 1930’s setting of the original pulps.

I really need to find somebody to give this a go with…

[aramis]

On a quick skim...

...Looks like the prototype of Gangbusters.

[tkdco2]

Skimming the original rules on Scribd, I can remember more modifications:

Karate and Kung Fu were 50-point Agility skills. IIRC, they may raise the hand-to-hand damage to the next die type. Same deal with a skill called Nerve Strikes. I don't remember the point cost, but it was probably 40 points. One of my characters in a mini-campaign set in the 1930s had this skill. He wasn't strong, so he normally did only 1d4 damage when trying to break down doors or similar objects. However, he did 1d6 damage in hand-to-hand combat because of his knowledge of nerve points.

Statistics for normal people and criminals were added, ditto stats for animals.

Medical skill could heal damage as well as stop bleeding. The die type depended on the doctor's Mental Aptitude. I think it was MA/10 rounded down.

[Finarvyn]

Sept 17, 2021 20:13:12 GMT -6 aramis said:

On a quick skim...

...Looks like the prototype of Gangbusters.

It would be interesting to know more. Crimefighters was from 1981, Gangbusters (I think) 1982. On the other hand, Rick had a prototype of Gangbusters called "Bloody 20's" for some time before Gangbusters was published so it may be a case of parallel design. Rick Krebs hasn't visited in quite a while, but he used to post here. Maybe he could shed some insight on the question, but if I recall correctly "Bloody 20's" was under development in 1978.

[Parzival]

Sept 18, 2021 15:05:37 GMT -6 tkdco2 said:

Skimming the original rules on Scribd, I can remember more modifications:

Karate and Kung Fu were 50-point Agility skills. IIRC, they may raise the hand-to-hand damage to the next die type. Same deal with a skill called Nerve Strikes. I don't remember the point cost, but it was probably 40 points. One of my characters in a mini-campaign set in the 1930s had this skill. He wasn't strong, so he normally did only 1d4 damage when trying to break down doors or similar objects. However, he did 1d6 damage in hand-to-hand combat because of his knowledge of nerve points.

Statistics for normal people and criminals were added, ditto stats for animals.

Medical skill could heal damage as well as stop bleeding. The die type depended on the doctor's Mental Aptitude. I think it was MA/10 rounded down.

I’m liking a lot of these ideas.
A few years ago I started trying my hand at creating a pulp adventure game, an homage to Crimefighters, but with the super abilities upped a bit— not to Marvel or DC levels, but in keeping with characters like Doc Savage and The Shadow. It got too complicated, so I set it aside. But I had a number of skill choices, some of which covered martial arts and pulpy-type Kung-fu-movie martial arts abilities (like Parry Missiles… eventually including bullets!). I’m thinking I might look back over the list and see what might fit with Crimefighters.

[tkdco2]

I can't believe I only remembered this last night. I ran the game for a different group a couple of decades ago. I was a Highlander fan, and still am, so I wrote up a bunch of rules for immortals and other supernatural beings. I will admit that some of the rules ended up with overpowered characters. I also wanted to add World of Darkness elements, but I didn't have the rulebooks yet, so I based vampires on Forever Knight and werewolves on the Jack Nicholson movie. Unfortunately, the group didn't like the mechanics and asked me to translate it to the HERO System. I wrote up rules for Highlander for 4th Edition HERO, but I never tried them.

I'll look for my notes, so I can give more details. IIRC, immortal characters gained 1 experience point for every decade the immortal aged. 

[tkdco2]

Good news! I found my notes and rulebooks. I'm too tired to post them now, but I'll share anything significant really soon.

[tkdco2]

Other changes I've noticed from looking at the original rules:

Hit points: Our house rules classified damage as lethal and temporary (aka subdual) damage. As per the written rules, a character dies when his hit points fall below zero from taking lethal damage. Unarmed combat deals subdual damage, and the character will fall unconscious once his hit points drop to zero. But it is possible to beat someone to death, so further subdual damage will count as lethal damage. In this case, the character will die once he reaches the negative total of his hit points.

Experience points: Another way to spend experience points is to spend them on new skills without having to increase Agility or Mental Aptitude. The new skill will cost 4 times the normal cost. This may be cheaper than raising characteristics to gain new skills. Also, our game allowed only one stat to exceed 100, so experienced characters needed this option to gain new skills.

[tkdco2]

Here are some of my house rules for my Secret World campaign. I will split these into different posts since there's a fair amount of information. Note that I will use abbreviations for the stats, notably, Physical Power (PP), Mental Aptitude (MA), Willpower (WP), and Agility (AGI).

First up: Immortals from the Highlander movies and TV shows.

Immortals stop aging physically when they first die. The first death is invariably violent, be it accidental or intentional. After this, the Immortal will be immune to disease, and poison will more likely inconvenience him rather than incapacitate him. After the Immortal has been trained by his mentor, he gains the Fencing and Quick Draw skills free.

Immortals taking lethal damage equal to or exceeding their hit points appear to die, but they are only incapacitated. They regain consciousness after their hit point totals become positive, but they suffer a -15% to their PP, WP, and AGI until they are fully healed.

Immortals regenerate 2 subdual points per round and 1 lethal point per round. If the character has the Regeneration mysterious power, these rates are doubled. However, Immortals do not regrow any lost limbs. Wounds to the head and neck may also be permanent. While all hit points are regained, scars may remain, and any damage to the vocal chords will remain damaged.

Immortals can sense one another when they are within close range (around 25 feet). They can sense the general location but cannot automatically pick out other Immortals. That said, Immortals usually give away their presence when detecting any potential enemies. This power also them to detect holy ground.

When an Immortal beheads another, the victor gains his opponent's Quickening. In game terms, the victor gets 1 experience point for every 10 years the slain Immortal lived; round all fractions down. This is in addition to the normal experience point gain, which is half the loser's hit points. The bonus can be used to gain some of the loser's skill or increase the winner's abilities, particularly PP, MA, WP, and AGI. These Quickening points may be stored for later use.

Once a day, an Immortal may use any stored Quickening points to increase any skills or abilities at a rate of 5 to 1. This only lasts for a turn (6 rounds); the ability or skill will return to normal after that. The Immortal can choose how to spend these points.

The Immortal may use his Quickening to infuse his weapon with power. This will repair it, cause more damage, and cause a showy electrical discharge. When using an edged weapon, the Immortal gains 5% to hit and does an extra point of damage. A called shot to the neck (-20% to hit) will sever his opponent's head.

Immortals may increase their actions in a turn, either adding 10% to their movement rates or gaining an extra attack without splitting their attack percentage rolls.

Holy ground is a haven for Immortals. They may not initiate combat but may act in self-defense. Should an Immortal actually behead another while in holy ground, he would gain no experience points or Quickening. Instead, the offender will permanently lose 5 points from his PP, WP, or AGI (GM's choice). This would result in a loss of hit points and/or combat ability.

Two Immortals may share souls via a special bonding ritual. This will allow them to communicate even after one has been killed. There is no other benefit except for the eternal brotherhood created.

Immortals may breathe underwater, surviving indefinitely.

Immortals cannot sire or bear children, although they may adopt them. This limitation exists even before Immortality is gained.

Immortals are constantly secretly monitored by the Watchers. While most Watchers merely observe and record unnoticed, a renegade group has begun to hunt Immortals. Since Immortals cannot sense their mortal hunters, they may be surprised by them, especially if they are unaware of the Watchers' existence.

Immortals cannot become Werewolves or Vampires. Immortal blood gives no sustenance to Vampires.

Bonus Skills (after training): Fencing, Quick Draw.

[tkdco2]

Next: Werewolves

The abbreviations used for the stats are Physical Power (PP) Mental Aptitude (MA), Willpower (WP), Accuracy Right (ACCR), Accuracy Left (ACCL), Agility (AGI), Presence (PRE), Allure (ALL).

Werewolves shapechange only at night, and the moon's phase determines the extent of the transformation. Shapechanging takes one minute to complete. The transformation lasts until dawn. Transformation affects the stats (round all fractions up) to a maximum of 300. Note that the werewolf becomes more bestial in nature as the moon waxes, even while in human form.

New Moon: No transformation possible. All stats are normal.

Crescent Moon: Werewolf appears as a hairy human with long nails and fangs. PP, WP, and AGI are 125% of normal. ACCR, ACCL, AGI, ALL are 75% of normal.

Quarter Moon: Werewolf is still humanoid but has fur, fangs, and long nails. PP, WP, AGI are 150% normal. PRE is 125% normal. MA is 75% normal. ACCR, ACCL, ALL are 50% normal.

Gibbous Moon: Werewolf has fur, fangs, and claws. The face is now that of a wolf. PP, WP, AGI are 175% normal. PRE is 150% normal. MA is 50% normal. ACCR, ACCL, ALL are 25% normal.

Full Moon: The werewolf now takes the form of a large wolf. PP, WP, AGI are 200% normal. PRE is 150% normal. MA is 25% normal. ALL is 25% normal. The PC no longer has the ACCR and ACCL stats, since he no longer has fine manipulation.

Hit points may be increased as a result of the transformation. These extra hit points are lost when the Werewolf regains human form at dawn.

The PRE bonus only applies when intimidating others. Their claws add 2 points of damage.

Werewolves have heightened senses. They get a +20% bonus to perception checks based on the characters MA in human form.

Werewolves are immune to Vampire hypnosis.

Werewolves may be hurt or killed by normal means. However, they regenerate subdual damage at a rate of 2 hp/round and lethal damage at 1 hp/round. They also do not lose subsequent hit points (blood drain) by a Vampire's bite, although they will take the initial damage from the attack. Lycanthrope makes the Werewolf blood unpalatable to Vampires. Silver causes an allergic reaction to Werewolves. Silver weapons cause an extra point of damage to Werewolves per hit. The damage is subdual if the weapon is blunt and lethal if the weapon is sharp or a projectile. Werewolves revert to human form if killed.

Wolfsbane also causes an allergic reaction to Werewolves. If Wolfsbane is ground into a powder and thrown at a Werewolf's face, the Werewolf must Save vs. Hallucinogen or act at -50% for 3 rounds.

Werewolves can infect mortals with lycanthropy. This can happen when a werewolf bites another person, even while in human form. If blood is spilled (1 lethal damage point), the human must Save vs. Poison. A successful save means lycanthropy will not be transmitted. A failed save means that the human will become a werewolf by the next full moon. Lycanthrope is not inherited. Werewolves cannot infect Immortals or Vampires with lycanthropy. Likewise, Werewolves cannot become Vampires and are never latent Immortals.

Bonus Skills: Stealth, Tracking, Vaults

[tkdco2]

Next: Vampires

Vampires get stronger as they get older, and their powers become more potent. Their age categories are based on how many years spent as a Vampire, regardless of how old they were when they were turned. The age categories are Young (0-50 years as a Vampire), Mature (51-200 years), Old (201-700 years), Very Old (701-2000 years) and Ancient (2000+ years). Vampires possess hypnosis, running, and flight bonuses, as well as enhanced PP (maximum score 250).

Young: Vampire gets +20 PP; running. flight, and hypnosis are at normal rate.

Mature: Vampire gets +35 PP, 125% running and flight rate, victim saves at -15% to hypnosis.

Old: Vampire gets +50 PP, 150% running and flight rate, victim saves at -30% to hypnosis.

Very Old: Vampire gets +65 PP, 175% running and flight rate, victim saves at -45% to hypnosis.

Ancient: Vampire gets +80 PP, 200% running and flight rate, victim saves at -60% to hypnosis.

Vampires may hypnotize their victims. The victim must Save vs. Euphoria with the modifiers listed above to resist. Werewolves are immune to Vampire hypnosis.

Vampires may run up to double their normal movement rate based on their age. They may also fly according to their running rate. Vampires can fly for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 their WP score.

Vampires have a special bite attack which they can use with their normal attack score; this must be their only attack. The bite does 1d3 lethal damage, plus 1 extra point per round that the Vampire remains attached to his victim. The victim may break off contact with a successful dodge roll, but only after successfully rolling 1/4 WP; this is because the Vampire's bite causes ecstasy. A Vampire who kills his victim in this manner may infuse some of his blood into the victim, thus creating a new Vampire. Note that Vampires cannot draw nourishment from Immortal or Werewolf blood, so the bite will not be sustained. Vampires cannot turn Immortals or Werewolves into Vampires, and they cannot become Werewolves. Pre-Immortals who are killed by Vampires become Immortals, not Vampires.

Vampires take 2 points of lethal damage per round from sunlight. Fire is always lethal to Vampires, no matter how small the flame is. Vampires may also be killed by a wooden stake through the heart (-20% to hit due to called shot) or beheading.

Vampire abilities drop to 25% normal if they enter holy ground. Holy objects that have been blessed will cause 2 points of lethal damage for every round the Vampire is in contact with it. Vampires may be driven off by unblessed holy objects, but only if those are wielded by people with strong faith. The object must be a religious symbol; the crossed candlesticks maneuver is a Hollywood invention.

Bonus Skills: Stealth, Shadowing, Wooing.