When exactly was AD&D's Deities & Demigods published?

[geoffrey]

When exactly was the AD&D Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia published?

The title page indicates a copyright date of 1980. That gives us a 12-month window.

Gary's foreward is dated May 1, 1980, narrowing the window to 8 months.

The October 1980 issue of Dragon magazine notes that DDG was "just released", further narrowing the window to 6 months.

So I know that DDG was published some time in May through October of 1980. I would guess that it was first released at Gen Con XIII (August 21-24, 1980), but I don't know. Does anyone have a firm date for the initial release of DDG?

[jeffb]

No firm date , sorry. It was under the Xmas tree that year for me. But I had seen it much earlier at Crown Books behind the counter

[talysman]

Don't know, but as a further clue: most magazines and periodicals were written a month or two before the cover date, since the magazine has to be shipped to the stores for display on that date. So, June through August? Gen Con seems pretty likely.

[Zenopus]

Origins game fair would be another date for possible release. In 1977, Holmes Basic was available at Origins before Gen Con.
In 1980, Origins was June 27-29.

The copyright record has it listed as Nov 1, 1980, but I would take that date with a grain of salt as it was not recorded until 1985.

zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/2011/11/tsr-publication-dates-through-1981.html

[Zenopus]

May 1, 2021 11:35:21 GMT -6 jeffb said:

No firm date , sorry. It was under the Xmas tree that year for me. But I had seen it much earlier at Crown Books behind the counter

As far as I remember, the first D&D book that I ever looked through was a Monster Manual at a Crown Books! This was before I got my Holmes Basic set. I remember the Bulette on the title page - which I recognized from my sandbox toys - and the ferocious-looking Carnivorous Ape.

[geoffrey]

May 1, 2021 12:56:03 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Origins game fair would be another date for possible release. In 1977, Holmes Basic was available at Origins before Gen Con.
In 1980, Origins was June 27-29.http://zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/2011/11/tsr-publication-dates-through-1981.html

Interesting!

My background: In approximately June of 1980 I made my first D&D purchase: the Holmes boxed set (with B2 and chits), the Monster Manual, and some dice.

I then began saving my money to buy the $12 Players Handbook. That would take me probably about 2 months or so.

One day I was spending the entire day with my grandmother. It would make sense that this was during summer vacation (basically June through August) rather than during the school year. I also remember it being a hot day (in southeastern Colorado), which of course is more likely in the summer months. We left our little mountain home in Rye and made the 30ish mile drive to Pueblo, and while there we went to the toy store that stocked a good supply of D&D books. I marched in, firmly intending to buy the Players Handbook...

"Wait a minute... What's this? It looks so much cooler than the Players Handbook. Deities & Demigods, with lots of little illustrations of powerful monsters? Sold!"

So I know for a fact that I bought DDG in the second half of 1980, but a late summer purchase date makes much more sense to me than an autumn purchase date. But who knows? That's why I'm so interested in exactly when DDG was released.

[jeffb]

May 1, 2021 13:08:21 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

May 1, 2021 11:35:21 GMT -6 jeffb said:

No firm date , sorry. It was under the Xmas tree that year for me. But I had seen it much earlier at Crown Books behind the counter

As far as I remember, the first D&D book that I ever looked through was a Monster Manual at a Crown Books! This was before I got my Holmes Basic set. I remember the Bulette on the title page - which I recognized from my sandbox toys - and the ferocious-looking Carnivorous Ape.

Are you from the DC Metro area Zach?

[Zenopus]

Yes! I did grow up in the region. Some of my favorite places to visit growing up were the DC Zoo, the Smithsonian Natural History Museum and the Baltimore Aquarium. In the later '80s, I bought my OD&D "Collector's Edition" Whitebox at a game store that used to exist in the Harborplace Mall in the Inner Harbor.

That's as specific as I will be in a public forum.

[Zenopus]

I had my Gen Con XIII program handy and checked it. There's a full page ad on page 17 for D&DG that screams across the top: "JUST RELEASED from TSR HOBBIES INC".

So it was definitely available at that Gen Con, which was Aug 24-26.

Depending on when they had it ready, it may have also been available at the earlier Origins, but we would need to check the program book or con reports to see if there is any evidence for that.

* * * * *

Other Gen Con XIII ads for new TSR products include the Knights of Camelot boardgame and the World of Greyhawk folio, along with WoG Fantasy Figures by Minifigs. TSR also has ads for the Dungeon Hobby Shop and Dragon Publishing, and TSR artist Darlene has her own ad for Art & Calligraphy.

Other companies/products with ads include Valiant Miniatures, Balboa Game Company, SPI, Iron Crown Enterprises, Judges Guild, The Courier magazine, Martian Metals, International Team Games, Asteroid by GDW, Titan, Ral Partha, La Bataille D'Austerlitz, TA-HR miniatures, Tom Loback General Artworks, Lyles Hobby & Craft Center, Game Room Productions, Grenadier Models and, on the back cover, "New Fantasy Aids!" by Dimension Six.

[geoffrey]

May 1, 2021 14:48:18 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

I had my Gen Con XIII program handy and checked it. There's a full page ad on page 17 for D&DG that screams across the top: "JUST RELEASED from TSR HOBBIES INC".

So it was definitely available at that Gen Con, which was Aug 24-26.

Depending on when they had it ready, it may have also been available at the earlier Origins, but we would need to check the program book or con reports to see if there is any evidence for that.

Thank you for that! DDG's release date is now narrowed down to May, June, July, or August 1980.

[jeffb]

May 1, 2021 14:16:26 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

Yes! I did grow up in the region. Some of my favorite places to visit growing up were the DC Zoo, the Smithsonian Natural History Museum and the Baltimore Aquarium. In the later '80s, I bought my OD&D "Collector's Edition" Whitebox at a game store that used to exist in the Harborplace Mall in the Inner Harbor.

That's as specific as I will be in a public forum.

Sorry- did not mean to pry too deep.

I grew up in VA, but I know the game store of which you speak of in the inner harbor. I bought some T&T solos from that place BITD when my folks took us over there to visit some of my Mom's family in MD, and I want to say I also picked up my copy of KABAL or Ysgarth there. Can't recall exactly.

[geoffrey]

I think I have my answer from Gary Gygax's column, "From the Sorcerer's Scroll", in the May 1980 issue (#37) of The Dragon. The following is from page 11:

Deities & Demigods is slated for release in August. Your dealer should have it sometime around the 15th of the month, and TSR will have it as a premiere release at GenCon.

That also answers my (unstated) question as to when the book went on sale in stores: around August 15th.

My school district back then typically started the school year on the day after Labor Day, so my first day of school would have been on September 2nd. Crunching together Gary's words with my recollection that I purchased DDG during summer vacation, I think I can be confident that I purchased it in this 18-day period:

August 15 through September 1, 1980

And given that I was spending the whole day with my grandmother (as opposed to being home with my parents), it is reasonable to conclude that it must have been on a weekday (and not on Labor Day itself). I therefore probably bought DDG on one of these 11 dates in 1980: August 15, 18-22, 25-29.

[tdenmark]

I got one after they'd already removed the good stuff. So I was very upset, and once I was an adult overcompensated by hunting down and buying several with the Cthulhu & Melnibonean mythoi. I must have 5 or 6 at this point before I got control of myself (and prices went completely insane).

[jeffb]

I saw a first print this past week, when I got my 1st print Monster Manual. I sold my original D&DG 1st print (which was near mint) when I had to get rid of my collection way back when, and even then it was probably one of my most valuable D&D books. These days, prices are nuts.

This copy unfortunately had the entire spine cover ripped off and the covers were barely hanging on- it looked like it had been run over by a King Tiger. The PDF serves my needs as a reference and I didn't think I would make much, if anything, on it in that kind of condition so I passed. Looking later at The Acaeum, I see I made a good decision.

[grodog]

May 1, 2021 14:48:18 GMT -6 Zenopus said:

I had my Gen Con XIII program handy and checked it. There's a full page ad on page 17 for D&DG that screams across the top: "JUST RELEASED from TSR HOBBIES INC".

So it was definitely available at that Gen Con, which was Aug 24-26.

Depending on when they had it ready, it may have also been available at the earlier Origins, but we would need to check the program book or con reports to see if there is any evidence for that.

I bought my AD&D books the summer of 1980, and I remember waiting for D&DG to be released then, so that squares nicely with my recollections. I didn't own any books from 1977-1980, which was an interesting experience when I finally got them an learned how to play for real: grodog.blogspot.com/2018/05/grodogs-start-in-gaming-1977.html

Allan.

[Zenopus]

I became aware of the 1st print when I noticed the extra mythos in the copy of D&DG at my local library! I already had my own non-Cthulhu/Melnibonean copy, received in mid-1983 (IIRC), so this was probably around '84. I'm surprised it survived in the stacks for that long!

[angantyr]

I remember seeing a stack of 1st or 2nd print D&DGs at my local Kay-Bee store BitD. If I had known then what I know now...

... I'd be retired already and living on an island in the Caribbean!

[rsdean]

I sold mine long ago, but my copy was from GenCon that year; it was the only GenCon my brother and I made it to prior to 2014.

[jeffb]

I'm guessing D&DG sold well upon release, but certainly didn't have the selling power of the FF, MM2, UA, etc. It didn't have as much direct crunchy utility for DMs unless your PCs were "God Killing" (and minimal utility for Cleric PCs).

And because it was centered so much on our own Earth mythology (especially in the 2nd print+) I'd also guess that made it less desirable for many DMs, who wanted something more fantastical. Seeing how Greyhawk /Deminhuman Deity articles in The Dragon, Dragonlance, and especially later on, the Forgotten Realms took off, Many D&D fans love having a strong presence of fantastical pantheons in their settings- but not earthly ones.


Not to say *some* DMs didn't get tons of mileage out of D&DG-One of my history buff buddies did. I'd just wager they were the exception, not the rule.

[tdenmark]

May 4, 2021 7:17:37 GMT -6 jeffb said:

I'm guessing D&DG sold well upon release, but certainly didn't have the selling power of the FF, MM2, UA, etc. It didn't have as much direct crunchy utility for DMs unless your PCs were "God Killing" (and minimal utility for Cleric PCs).

And because it was centered so much on our own Earth mythology (especially in the 2nd print+) I'd also guess that made it less desirable for many DMs, who wanted something more fantastical. Seeing how Greyhawk /Deminhuman Deity articles in The Dragon, Dragonlance, and especially later on, the Forgotten Realms took off, Many D&D fans love having a strong presence of fantastical pantheons in their settings- but not earthly ones.


Not to say *some* DMs didn't get tons of mileage out of D&DG-One of my history buff buddies did. I'd just wager they were the exception, not the rule.

I suspect it sold better than the FF.
Gary shot that book in the back when he immediately editorialized on its problems and how they were going to make a better revised version. Or something like that.

Then again, TSR really screwed the pooch when they excised Cthulhu/Melnibonean mythoi from D&DG. And the thing is there was no reason to, it was pure spite and ignorance. Seth Skorkowsky and Sandy Petersen give a good behind the scenes on that fiasco youtu.be/-Auk-Sd4ZlI

[jeffb]

May 4, 2021 8:08:58 GMT -6 tdenmark said:

May 4, 2021 7:17:37 GMT -6 jeffb said:

I'm guessing D&DG sold well upon release, but certainly didn't have the selling power of the FF, MM2, UA, etc. It didn't have as much direct crunchy utility for DMs unless your PCs were "God Killing" (and minimal utility for Cleric PCs).

And because it was centered so much on our own Earth mythology (especially in the 2nd print+) I'd also guess that made it less desirable for many DMs, who wanted something more fantastical. Seeing how Greyhawk /Deminhuman Deity articles in The Dragon, Dragonlance, and especially later on, the Forgotten Realms took off, Many D&D fans love having a strong presence of fantastical pantheons in their settings- but not earthly ones.


Not to say *some* DMs didn't get tons of mileage out of D&DG-One of my history buff buddies did. I'd just wager they were the exception, not the rule.

I suspect it sold better than the FF.
Gary shot that book in the back when he immediately editorialized on its problems and how they were going to make a better revised version. Or something like that.

You may be right!

Anecdotally-In my circle- Not only my groups, but the game store clubs, library clubs, afterschool clubs, etc- I seem to recall a lot of FF's. I don't think many people in our area were all that in-tune with Gary's feelings barring the text in the rulebooks. We were just Kids/Teens and wahoo for new monster books. Most of my groups had already abandoned or never really bought into AD&D anyway by the FF's release. Frankly, I wish I *HAD* read Gary's commentary first! It would have saved me from spending my hard earned money on that turkey of a book

[boggit]

I got my hands on a very well preserved copy of the second printing for under a hundred bucks last year. One of the most prized items in my collection.

I do seem to recall reading on Acaeum (I believe) that the first two printings aren’t really that rare, though. Not much more so than later printings.

[geoffrey]

To the best of my knowledge, I was the only D&Der in my community who had a subscription to Dragon magazine (from the June 1982 issue [#62] through the May 1984 issue [#85]). Whether or not Gary said anything bad about the Fiend Folio in those issues, I don't remember.

That said, the Fiend Folio in my community was generally liked but used far less than the Monster Manual.