|
|
Post by derv on Feb 17, 2021 19:48:51 GMT -6
Hear ye! Hear ye! On the seventeenth day of the festival of Lupercalia a challenge is put forth to both young and old, rich and poor. Come one, come all, come what may!
In all seriousness, the challenge is simple- how long does it take you to create a character for D&D? Use a stop watch and time yourself as you create three characters. The characters have to be complete and written down- six ability scores, class, languages, gold, gear, armor, AC, weapons, hp's, 1st spell- if applicable, alignment, gender, and name. Give the time for each and methods used, if you want.
I've been working on a first time players work sheet. In going through the process of making three characters my time is:
Ignatius (Cleric) male- 4 min. 15 sec.
Align: Chaos AC:5 hp:4
ST-9 IN-8 WI-18 CON-13 DEX-10 CHR-16
Senor Bertlet (Fighter) male- 4 min. 6 sec.
Align: Chaos AC:5 hp:6
ST-17 IN-8 WI-10 CON-7 DEX-10 CHR-11
Culig the Caster (MU) male- 5 min. 40 sec. This one took a little longer because of additional languages.
Align: Law AC:9 hp:5
ST-17 IN-16 WI-5 CON-5 DEX-15 CHR-9
It's not really a race or competition. It's just for fun and I'm genuinely curious how long it takes others. Maybe you'll be surprised.
|
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 18, 2021 9:05:40 GMT -6
G-L-O-R-I-A Out of the grim mist of dust a man stumbles into the open of the arena. Full of blood and piss he looks up blinking as sweat runs in his eyes. Softly he mumbles, "Did I win?" He turns and listens unknowingly for confirmation. A moment goes by. He raises both arms with clenched fists in the air as he starts to believe, "Yes, I've won." Staggering in a circle he repeats in a normal tone, then louder, "Yes, I've won!" As the dust settles, the champion slowly walks around the arena with confidence in his victory only to realize at the last moment that the arena is empty. "Do it for Johny, man" |
|
|
|
Post by Finarvyn on Feb 18, 2021 11:17:14 GMT -6
This reminds me a little of our old Boot Hill games. Pretty much every session ended in a gunfight, often in the local saloon, and if your character died the rule was that you could rejoin the battle if you could generate a new one from scratch before the battle was done. Some gunfights would last most of the day, since everyone just kept coming back into the fray.  |
|
|
|
Post by dicebro on Feb 18, 2021 11:18:00 GMT -6
Mustardio the Dubious hp6 ac 3
S12 I13 W3 C17 D4 X14
Fighter 1st level
Plate mail, sword, backpack
5gp
3 minutes
|
|
yesmar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Fool, my spell book is written in Erlang!
Posts: 217
|
Post by yesmar on Feb 18, 2021 13:03:21 GMT -6
Grellusz the Magnificent
Neutral Human male Veteran
S 10, I 7, W 9, C 14, D 11, Ch 4
-2 Loyalty Base, 1 Hireling max
HP 6
AC 2
Arms & Armor:
Plate armor - 750
Helmet - 50
Shield - 150
Sword - 50
Adventuring Gear - 80
Back Pack, Large Sack, 50' Coil of Rope, Iron Rations (1 wk.), Wine Skin
Coin: 56 GP
Encumbrance: 1,080
Armd. Foot movement, 6"
3:14
|
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 18, 2021 17:17:00 GMT -6
Dang, you two are quick!
|
|
|
|
Post by dicebro on Feb 18, 2021 18:18:16 GMT -6
The longest part is coming up with a name. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 17:34:56 GMT -6
Am I constrained to using only the 3lbb as written, or can I use reference sheets? Choice blog posts? Other online tools? Depending on the allowed materials, this would go much faster or slower for me, probably by several dozen seconds.
|
|
yesmar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Fool, my spell book is written in Erlang!
Posts: 217
|
Post by yesmar on Feb 19, 2021 18:13:57 GMT -6
Am I constrained to using only the 3lbb as written, or can I use reference sheets? Choice blog posts? Other online tools? Depending on the allowed materials, this would go much faster or slower for me, probably by several dozen seconds. I used 3LBB, specifically Vol. 1, but I say use whatever you want. The goal should be good, quick fun! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 18:52:11 GMT -6
Am I constrained to using only the 3lbb as written, or can I use reference sheets? Choice blog posts? Other online tools? Depending on the allowed materials, this would go much faster or slower for me, probably by several dozen seconds. I used 3LBB, specifically Vol. 1, but I say use whatever you want. The goal should be good, quick fun! I'll have to give it a try tomorrow or Sunday, using a few different methods. Reason I asked about the unfair advantage is that I recently read an article about quick D&D character generation on a blog (The Alexandrian) that would certainly give me an advantage as opposed to not using it, notably in the equipment generation portion, which is the slowest part. |
|
yesmar
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
Fool, my spell book is written in Erlang!
Posts: 217
|
Post by yesmar on Feb 19, 2021 19:20:04 GMT -6
I didn’t use any equipment “kits.” Selecting arms, armor, and adventuring gear and then tallying up encumbrance always takes the most time for me. As for names, I have a list of several hundred I draw from. I’m always coming up with weird/fun names.
|
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 19, 2021 20:51:54 GMT -6
Am I constrained to using only the 3lbb as written, or can I use reference sheets? Choice blog posts? Other online tools? Depending on the allowed materials, this would go much faster or slower for me, probably by several dozen seconds. Use whatever references you want and any methods you want to create a complete character as presented in the LBB's (Fighter, MU, Cleric). My only stipulation is that a person actually records the results by hand. If you're using an unconventional method of generation it would be interesting to hear what it is. The challenge as originally posted was to create three characters and give the time for each one. But, one is better than none |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 4:37:38 GMT -6
Am I constrained to using only the 3lbb as written, or can I use reference sheets? Choice blog posts? Other online tools? Depending on the allowed materials, this would go much faster or slower for me, probably by several dozen seconds. Use whatever references you want and any methods you want to create a complete character as presented in the LBB's (Fighter, MU, Cleric). My only stipulation is that a person actually records the results by hand. If you're using an unconventional method of generation it would be interesting to hear what it is. The challenge as originally posted was to create three characters and give the time for each one. But, one is better than none It's gonna be three. The only unconventional aspect is using pre-rolled lists of gear "packages" with a gold value after generating gold. That's my favorite little shorthand for making characters since gear takes the longest. IMO |
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 20, 2021 7:53:13 GMT -6
I'm okay with packages. My character creation worksheets use packages and randomization to speed things up. I posted a link to them in the game of character creation thread, if you're interested. |
|
|
|
Post by rredmond on Feb 20, 2021 9:30:21 GMT -6
Be interesting to put these all together in one OD&D74 packet as a bunch of Pre-Gens and/or pre-rolled NPCs too.
|
|
|
|
Post by retrorob on Feb 21, 2021 4:54:22 GMT -6
As I play mostly online nowadays, I used this brilliant generator: mrjoshbear.net/odd-referee.htmlS:8 I:9 W:15 C:6 D:9 X:13 G:130 HP:5 class: Cleric name: Gilbert equipment: plate & shield, helmet, silver cross, mace, adventurer's package, iron rations less than 60 seconds |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2021 6:09:10 GMT -6
As I play mostly online nowadays, I used this brilliant generator: mrjoshbear.net/odd-referee.htmlS:8 I:9 W:15 C:6 D:9 X:13 G:130 HP:5 class: Cleric name: Gilbert equipment: plate & shield, helmet, silver cross, mace, adventurer's package, iron rations less than 60 seconds Yeah, see. Stuff like this is why I asked my question. I know of at least two generators that make fully 3lbb-legal characters at the press of a button. All the math done by the book. Here's one and here's the other, see? Tools like this just make things so much faster if they're allowed. I already use them in my pbp games along with the generator you mentioned for encounters, combat rolls, reactions and the like in-game. I've got about 34 from that second one printed out in a folder for one-shot games irl when the world gets back to normal. (I had 40 but six of 'em are in a folder entitled "Boot Hill" now.) |
|
|
|
Post by retrorob on Feb 21, 2021 8:32:35 GMT -6
The two you've provided are also good, but leave us with no choice. Using "Odd Referee Tools" I only generated stats (with HP and GP) and I had to choose class, buy equipment (perhaps the most consuming part) and come up with name (fortunately wisdom was high, and my clerics are always named Gilbert - like my character for one CoC session 20 years ago).
|
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 21, 2021 9:09:29 GMT -6
Online generators are fine tools. For the old crusty roleplayer it's all old hat when it comes to character creation. But, don't neglect the tactile benefit of actually rolling dice. It's easy to forget those early experiences of first playing D&D if it's been a while. Try not to short change new players of those experiences. The act of rolling up a character is already engaging them in the game. They are investing themselves early on versus simply getting a printout. Naming your first character, alone, has an immersive quality.
Still, mrjoshbear does not really create a complete character. You still have alignment, languages, choosing equipment, and the calculation of remaining gp- I think you have 5 gp left in the above example? Though I'm not sure what an adventurers package is.
|
|
|
|
Post by captainjapan on Feb 21, 2021 9:48:39 GMT -6
Since this thread was begun to service Derv's character-creation-as-a-game thread and since the motivation for that thread was to discuss making it even more a game of chance than it already is, I don't think we should discount the (sometimes) fully automated on-line character generator. It is without a doubt the fastest method; and if you had a printer handy to avoid hand transcribing the output this method will yield the most free-time for you to add-to/cross-out/re-roll the results that aren't to your liking. Obviously, many groups are not playing with a computer printer and a perpetually open on-line generator during games. My suggestion for those with less technology on-hand is the Zenopus Archives Ready Ref Worksheet: drive.google.com/file/d/0B-rvuyIrPEBCN1h4R2ZTU25WUGs/view?usp=sharingI ran off dozens of these character gen worksheets when I first got back into d&d and I think they're fantastic. Zen also posted a blank character sheet to the Ready Ref packet. I never used it once. I just marked up this single page checklist and brought IT to the table. The version 1.1 worksheet wasn't even available yet so I had to circle all my choices in felt pen. Nowadays, you could just use a highlighter. ”rolling up a new flunky" will become as effortless as signing your name edit: now that I read derv's latest post, I'm pretty sure I've missed the point. Carry on. |
|
|
|
Post by retrorob on Feb 21, 2021 10:30:00 GMT -6
derv that's right, I left 5 GP in Gilbert's pocket. Perhaps he can use them later, buy a quart of wine, give to a beggar or something like that. By "adventurer's package" I mean backpack, wineskin, flint & steel, tinderbox (costs 10 gp). He doesn't know any language except common and law, and as for alignment, in another topic I mentioned that IMC clerics are always lawful. That being said, you're right that probably online generators aren't the best way to introduce new players to OD&D, with rolling the dice being an important factor. Few years ago I run a big campaign for 15 players. Sadly, most of them had previous RPG (and cRPG) experience with a strong inclination for pregenerated character-build, bonuses etc., but there was a new guy as well. Perhaps the most interesting character was created by this fellow: "Aaron, a son of bowmen from Shem and Aquilonian prostitute". Unfortunately, he was killed by frogmen after few sessions. We had a lot of TPK's back then, and rolled 83 player characters (during 9 months). At the end we were able to generate a whole new party of 4-6 characters in no more than 15 minutes, using only dice, pencil and paper.
|
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 21, 2021 11:40:31 GMT -6
edit: now that I read derv's latest post, I'm pretty sure I've missed the point. Carry on. If I thought myself an oracle I'd speak with some certainty that these games we play will eventually become an item of antiquity. What I mean is, the actual pen, paper, dice, and perhaps even the human interactivity. The speed at which technology is progressing and the willing adoption of the media points to more and more of what we do becoming virtual. I see no reason not to think that the function of a GM can be eventually fully automated with as real of an output as a human referee could produce. The appeal will be it's immediacy- you can play any time and any where, quickly. It's results will mimic the real thing without the head ache of scheduling, doing anything manually, or dealing with, well, people. I'm not anti-technology. I think these tools are great. They save time. Instant maps, instant characters, instant treasure, virtual gatherings. It's all good. It's just different. So, my point, if there really is one, is that there are trade offs and maybe they're worth looking at. In my view, character creation is part of the fun, not a drudgery. edit: I think Zenopus 's character worksheets are great! Pretty much what I had in mind. Though, the sheets still retain the problem of choice over randomization for a first time player. |
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 21, 2021 11:48:02 GMT -6
That being said, you're right that probably online generators aren't the best way to introduce new players to OD&D, with rolling the dice being an important factor. Few years ago I run a big campaign for 15 players. Sadly, most of them had previous RPG (and cRPG) experience with a strong inclination for pregenerated character-build, bonuses etc., but there was a new guy as well. Perhaps the most interesting character was created by this fellow: "Aaron, a son of bowmen from Shem and Aquilonian prostitute". Unfortunately, he was killed by frogmen after few sessions. We had a lot of TPK's back then, and rolled 83 player characters (during 9 months). At the end we were able to generate a whole new party of 4-6 characters in no more than 15 minutes, using only dice, pencil and paper. That's a strong commentary that you remember that character and the events of his demise after all this time and it wasn't even yours. I hope his character drew a worthy epitaph within your campaign. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2021 17:20:07 GMT -6
Alrighty, philosophical discussions about the future of D&D or the utility of online tools aside, I've decided to try to roll up my characters as quickly as possible, the first time around completely by the book. My only resource will be my printed out version of Greyharp's Single Volume Edition. Actual physical dice will be rolled. Yeah. I know. I was gonna use some shortcuts but I changed my mind. (I may use the same method for my next two, later, or the same method all three times. Not sure yet. By the way, on the topic of pregens earlier, I like to make those available in face to face games but I also encourage anyone who wants to roll to roll. It's an optional thing.)
Character 1:
Name:Casket Jane
Race: Human
Class: Fighting-Man
Gender: Female
Alignment: Chaos
Abilities:
STR: 12
Dex: 8
Con: 11
Int: 7
Wis: 11
Cha: 12
Lang: Common, Chaos
(I rolled stats in this order because it's the order I always roll stats in. Just easiest to remember for me)
HP: 6
AC: 2
Starting gold: 140
Gear: Plate Armor
Shield
Helmet
Flail
Longbow
Quiver
20 arrows
Waterskin
Backpack
Rope
Leftover gold: 5
This character took me 4 minutes and 14 seconds to generate. I was rather rusty. I was also operating under the assumption that she knows no additional languages outside Common and Alignment due to Intelligence score but I could be remembering that wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by derv on Feb 21, 2021 18:55:58 GMT -6
Alrighty, philosophical discussions about the future of D&D or the utility of online tools aside, I've decided to try to roll up my characters as quickly as possible, the first time around completely by the book. Okay, maybe I wandered too far into the deep end there. But, if the only thing I knew was that I knew nothing, would I know something? 4 minutes 14 seconds is good in my book. My best time was 2 minutes 45 seconds with a Fighter. They seem to take the least amount of time for me. Magic Users usually have higher intelligence, so take additional time picking languages and a spell. |
|
|
|
Post by retrorob on Feb 22, 2021 0:54:20 GMT -6
OK, 3 dice, pencil and sheet of paper only.
Time: 1 minute 36 seconds
Name: Yanardag
Class: Magic-User
Division: Chaos
Languages: common, chaos, ogre, orc, troll, giant, goblin, gnoll, dragon
STR 7
INT 17
WIS 9
CON 9
DEX 17
CHA 18
HP 1
starting gold: 100
leftover gold: 64
equipment: backpack, wineskin, large sack, small sack, dagger, iron rations (1 week), pole, torches (6), rope, mirror
spells: sleep
|
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Feb 22, 2021 1:03:24 GMT -6
STR 7 INT 17 WIS 9 CON 9 DEX 17 CHA 18 Eeek!! |
|
|
|
Post by retrorob on Feb 22, 2021 1:10:27 GMT -6
Remarkable stats, but he will die quickly unless guarded by some Fighters. That's why I left some money - for a couple of drinks in the local tavern  derv I've spent a lot of time for languages and equipment. I picked only one spell. With F-M I would end probably in less than a minute. |
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Feb 22, 2021 1:26:19 GMT -6
It takes me longer than that to find my dice!
|
|
|
|
Post by rredmond on Feb 22, 2021 7:23:13 GMT -6
It takes me longer than that to find my dice!  |
|
