The game of character creation

[hamurai]

Feb 13, 2021 19:49:30 GMT -6 smubee said:

OD&D Con game?

I’m interested in how that works. I’ve always seen the first 3-ish levels of OD&D as the backstory to a character.

I've used Swords & Wizardry Whitebox and Swords & Wizardry Continual Light (SWCL is available in German, so it's better for some groups) to play Sailors on the Starless Sea and The Portal Under The Stars, both DCC funnel adventures, as a regular group adventures, for example. In 2019 I've run Winter's Daughter (originally for Old School Essentials or B/X) in an 8-hour con game. I've run other adventures, but I forget their names (I only tried them once and wasn't too happy). Portal Under The Stars is one of my favourite ones by now because it has a nice dungeon with traps, combat and riddles. I got the printed tiles from DriveThru which I often use to "map" the dungeon for the players, sometimes I use miniatures to play, too.

OD&D/Whitebox/SWCL are great systems for cons as they don't need long to create a character. I usually lean towards Whitebox and SWCL because of some streamlined mechanics like a single Saving Throw and Ascending AC. Descending AC leads to more confusion than it's worth bothering with, in my opinion. I've only once had a player who knew of descending AC at all.

As stated above, my players describe their characters in a few sentences and we're off to the adventure. The description can be as short as "I'm playing a human cleric named Isidor" but might also go on like "who was born and raised in a far-away land. His skin is dark and you see from his clothes and the symbols on them that he worships a strange god. He wears a tattered robe over his chainmail armour and his gaze seems always a little tired when he listens to you talk, which might relate to the cruel past he left behind when he came to your lands."

[tombowings]

Feb 13, 2021 19:49:30 GMT -6 smubee said:

OD&D Con game?

I’m interested in how that works. I’ve always seen the first 3-ish levels of OD&D as the backstory to a character.

All of the con games I’ve played in, no one’s cared about PC histories. Just — “Hi, I’m Bob, I’m playing a Dwarf named Tholin.”

Then everyone knows your role at the table, but nobody cares about the backstory to a PC at a con.

Are your con games very story oriented?

I’m not trying to come off as rude, genuinely curious!

That's how I enjoy all games. The character is merely the player's avatar in the game world. Nobody needed to know about Conan's mother and father. Nobody cared if he apprenticed a blacksmith. They only cared whether or not he could successfully scale the Tower of the Elephant and what he would find upon reaching the top.

[derv]

As can be seen by Geoffrey's and Waysoftheearth's examples, there's a little more to what we're talking about. The ability scores actually tell a story that needs to be interpreted by the player. On top of that, this fairly basic act is kind of fun. It already allows the player to immerse themselves in the game. Why would you want to short circuit the experience?

But, here we go. This is actually more along the lines of what I had in mind. Not sure if the tables will turn out right. How long did you guys say character generation takes?


Creating Your Character

In order to play D&D you must first create a character. This character will become your persona in the game world you are about to enter. All new characters start out with zero experience. They are novices in the profession of adventurer. Through the course of the game they will gain experience over time. What role will you fill among your peers in this game of fantasy? Follow the steps below and let the dice decide.

Aptitude:
Your character is made up of six abilities. Three primary (strength, intelligence, wisdom) and three secondary (constitution, dexterity, charisma). Roll a d20 six times in the order of the abilities listed, recording the result after each roll. Should you roll a 1, 2, 10, 19, or 20, record it as a 10. You should end up with six ability scores between 3-18 when you are done.

Apprenticeship:
Your characters abilities help shape and define what class they will pursue. Look at your highest scoring primary ability score to determine it’s class. If none of them are above average (a score of 12) or if there is a tie, then look to your highest scoring secondary abilities for a solution. The table below will assist you.

Primary (Secondary) = Class        Hit Dice

ST (CON) = Fighter                    1+1
IN (DEX) = Magic User               1
WI (CHR) = Cleric                      1

Once a Class is determined you can take note of it’s Hit Dice. Roll a d6 x HD plus any modifier and record your Hit Points. This is an abstract measurement of how much damage your character can sustain. A Constitution score of 15 or more adds +1 to each HD and a Constitution score of 6 or less is -1 to each HD.

Race:

Fighter: roll a d6 for the chance your character is non-human.
1-3 = human
4 = dwarf
5 = halfling
6 = elf*

Magic User: roll a d6 for the chance your character is non-human.
1-4 = human
5-6 = elf*

Cleric: human only.

Dwarves may not advance beyond the sixth level.
Halflings may not advance beyond the fourth level.
If your character is an Elf they can switch between the fighter and magic user class on subsequent adventures. They can only advance to the fourth level as a fighter and to the eighth level as a magic user.

Language:
All characters speak the common tongue. Each race will also know it’s own language. In addition, Dwarves will know the language of Gnomes, Kobolds, and Goblins. Elves will speak Orc, Hobgoblin, and Gnoll.

Characters with an Intelligence over 10 may learn one additional language for each point above ten. Roll a d6 for type, then roll on the appropriate table for each one.

1. Flyer 2. Giant 3. Lycanthrope/Fey 4. Animal 5. Woods/Mountain 6. Dragon

Alignment:
There are many factors that lead a character to choose a side. Roll a d6 to discover where your character stands.

1-2 = Law
3-4 = Neutral
5-6 = Chaos

Savings & Outfitting:
Depending on your characters position in life they have set some coin aside to finance their adventures. If they barter well, they may still have a few coins left over should they need to hire help, cover a toll, pay a bribe, or to drop as a distraction when being pursued. Roll 2d6 and consult the tables.

Die Score                                              Reaction & Result

2                                                   You have acquired some basic gear, but offended the merchant in the process.
                                                     You have d6 gp left over. See “A”.
3-5                                                Some tough bargaining, but you got what you needed.
                                                     You have d3 x 5 gp left over. See “B”.
6-8                                                You walk away feeling like you made a fair deal.
                                                     You have d6 x 5 gp left over. See “C”.
9-11                                              The merchant looked kindly on you and promised his best on your behalf.
                                                     You have d6 x 10 gp left over. See “D”.
12                                                 Fortune and favor has shined on you. You have 2d4 x 10 gp left over. See “E”.

*record your remaining gold pieces on your character sheet.


A. Basic gear, basic weapon, shield, one week standard rations.
B. Upgraded gear, basic weapon, basic armor, one week standard rations.
C. Basic gear, upgraded weapon, upgraded armor, one week iron rations.
D. Upgraded gear, upgraded weapon, upgraded armor, one week iron rations.
E. Upgraded gear, upgraded weapon, secondary weapon, upgraded armor, one week iron rations.

Basic Gear: large sack, 6 torches, tinder box, water skin, 12 iron spikes.

Upgraded Gear: backpack, small sack, lantern, flask of oil, tinder box, water skin, 12 iron spikes, 50’ rope, (Cleric: wooden holy symbol).

Basic Weapon: Fighter- spear, Cleric- mace, Magic User- dagger.

Upgraded Weapon: Fighter- sword, Cleric- flail, Magic User- staff (10’ pole).

Secondary Weapon: Fighter- short bow & 20 arrows or hand ax, Cleric- vial of holy water, Magic User- dagger.

Basic Armor: Fighter & Cleric- d6 (1-4) shield only (5-6) leather only.

Upgraded Armor: Fighter & Cleric- d6 (1-4) leather & shield (5-6) chainmail. Helmet for “D” & “E”.


Encumbrance: All characters will move as Lightfoot (12”) with above equipment.


Armor Class:

None = 9
Shield = 8
Leather = 7
Leather & shield = 6
Chainmail = 5

Spells (Magic User only):
Roll d8 for one spell at first level.

Turn Undead (Cleric only):
Clerics have the additional ability to turn away certain undead monsters. How effective they are increases with experience.

Name:
Roll a d20 + d6 for the corresponding first letter of your characters name, then make one up.
Optionally, add an adjective or a surname before or after your characters name.

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2021 3:28:55 GMT -6 tombowings said:

Feb 13, 2021 0:29:02 GMT -6 derv said:

You despise it?

That’s kind of funny.

I probably have PTSD from university, where more than have the players were more interested in their super cool character build that actually exploring the setting and interacting with the fantasy world.

That's tough; I feel for you.

[waysoftheearth]

Feb 15, 2021 19:57:41 GMT -6 derv said:

This is actually more along the lines of what I had in mind. Not sure if the tables will turn out right. How long did you guys say character generation takes?

Nice one derv, as usual

A couple of observations...

. Do you want a roll for male/female?
. For alignment, you might want clerics to reroll a neutral result?
. Does a magic-user really start with exactly one spell? Or do they start with a spellbook of spells?
. For determining the first letter of the name d20+d6 means you can never get the letter A. How about: d20, and on a result of 19-20 count it 18 and then add d8?

Also, for readability:
. "it's" is an abbreviation for "it is"; most of them should be "its" instead. In Australian English, at least.

I'm not sure whether the d20 per ability score adds something in terms of expediency, or whether any amount of expedience can outweigh the "classic"-ness of a 3d6 roll for ability scores

[captainjapan]

this is great. You can also start with a random npc generator like donjon or mrjoshbear if you want to get into the game even faster. Not quite as fun, though.

[derv]

Feb 15, 2021 23:57:51 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

A couple of observations...

. Do you want a roll for male/female?
. For alignment, you might want clerics to reroll a neutral result?
. Does a magic-user really start with exactly one spell? Or do they start with a spellbook of spells?
. For determining the first letter of the name d20+d6 means you can never get the letter A. How about: d20, and on a result of 19-20 count it 18 and then add d8?

Also, for readability:
. "it's" is an abbreviation for "it is"; most of them should be "its" instead. In Australian English, at least.

I'm not sure whether the d20 per ability score adds something in terms of expediency, or whether any amount of expedience can outweigh the "classic"-ness of a 3d6 roll for ability scores

All good suggestions Ways.

Cleric alignment- typically I think it's best for a Cleric to declare Law or Chaos as soon as possible, but I have always understood that they need not declare an allegiance until 7th level in OD&D. So, I leave that sticky-widget for a GM to decide what sort of ramifications remaining Neutral so long would be. There is always the risk of not being able to use certain aligned magic items or the turn undead ability while remaining Neutral. Of course there is also the reputation of the so-called Cleric to consider.

Spells- I should make a note that they have a spell book and may re-roll on the list before each adventure or keep the one they already have. I have always considered spells not to be "known" until successfully cast. Once successfully cast it gets recorded in the spell book. They must then learn new spells how ever they can- studying when not adventuring, acquiring scrolls, and finding books in looted treasure. Granted, this is my reading into the Vancian approach. A GM can allow the full list to be available, if they choose, with this just being their first pick.

d20 for abilities- I was going to add a note at the end that an alternative would be to roll the traditional 3d6 in order. I don't know why I forgot that.

[tdenmark]

Feb 12, 2021 19:23:33 GMT -6 derv said:

Aaa! I've found point systems can chew up some of the most time. Otherwise, I'm okay with it

They don't have to. For example start with 6 in all attributes. Get 25 points to put anywhere. Max on any one attribute is 18.

[tdenmark]

Feb 17, 2021 0:23:35 GMT -6 Piper said:

Or base score of 12 (or other score as you see fit, but make them all the same) in each state and allow them to "spend" 2 points off one stat to gain 1 in another stat.

Sure, there are a lot of simple formulas that work. However when reducing a stat by 2 points to gain 1 is when it starts getting fiddly and slows things down. IMHO

[dicebro]

When does the adventure begin? Lol.

[rustic313]

Part of the charm of OD&D is that it reduces choices at Char Gen, making for faster Char Gen. The characters are one unlucky to-hit roll or pit trap away from gruesome death anyways!

If creating characters above first level, some backstory may be warranted -- plus survivability is high enough to justify investing some time and effort into said backstory.

All that said I've tinkered with the char gen a bit to allow some agency. Each player draws three playing cards from a pinochle-style deck (9/10/Face Cards/Aces). Like poker they can ditch 0-3 cards and draw a second time back up to three. They then select from this "hand" to generate ability scores.

Suit:  Prime Reqs
Hearts: WIS (clerics)
Diamonds: DEX (thieves)
Spades: STR (fighters)
Clubs: INT (wizards)

Faces/Values:  Secondary Scores
Jacks: DEX
Queens: CHA
Kings: CON
Aces: Pick DEX, CON, or CHA
9s/10s: No secondary score; Roll 2d3+12 for the sole indicated prime req score by suit

Unless you have a 9/10, roll 2d6+6 for the favored scores indicated above, and 3d6 for everything else.

This lets a player tilt char gen a bit towards a class/archetype they're interested in. It also aligns the resultant ability scores with Delta's research for what "typical" prime reqs are for characters that survive into the mid levels.  There's no guarantee you'll get a very high score but you are pretty much guaranteed to hit a class minimum prime req with 2d6+6.

For equipment, each class can either grab a prebuilt average "starting bundle" (usually just one option, except for fighters who have a few choices) or can roll for cash and buy a la carte. Most just want a starting bundle for simplicity's sake.

I've reworked some of the classes such that alignment gives some unique perks, but those perks don't start showing up until mid levels, which allows most characters to start as neutral and then drift in a direction organically over their first few adventures. I've done the same thing with "prestige" classes (such as Paladins and Rangers) -- everyone starts as a Fighting Man but there's an option to drift into some of the fancier options introduced in Greyhawk/Strategic Review mid-career, which again delays an early decision and lets a character emerge more organically over play.

Lastly, I have an optional rule that lets player characters and important NPCs with names (not the Nameless Torch Bearer) use their CON score or their rolled HP, whichever is greater. This is specifically intended to support more role-play centric campaigns and stiffen the character's defenses a bit at the lower levels, even though their offensive prowess is poor. If I wanted to do something with more elaborate backstories and investment (rather than a meat grinder old school megadungeon) then I'd use this rule to soften the first few levels.

[tdenmark]

Feb 17, 2021 5:05:43 GMT -6 Piper said:

Feb 17, 2021 4:52:12 GMT -6 tdenmark said:

Sure, there are a lot of simple formulas that work. However when reducing a stat by 2 points to gain 1 is when it starts getting fiddly and slows things down. IMHO

Apologies. I was just throwing out ideas. Mea culpa

?? Apologies for what? I thought your post was fine, and interesting. I wasn't trying to disagree with it or anything. Just clarifying that point-buying, as opposed to just point distribution, but in the spirit of this thread it adds to the time and complexity of character creation. I mean, not by much, it can add 15-30minutes (or more depending on the player!).

[acodispo]

Feb 11, 2021 20:26:06 GMT -6 derv said:

Anyone else play around with character creation?

This is very interesting. I enjoy character creation, myself. I enjoy reading/digesting RPGs, even if I don't intend to ever play them, and running myself through the character creation process for a given game is the best way to get to know that game. So I do solo character-generation-as-a-game by itself all the time (with no intent to ever play these characters).

That said, as a ref I've settled very much toward the other end of things. I embrace the notion that there's no homework required to play my game, so I use a random character generator. Characters start at 0-level and players don't choose their class till after they survive one expedition, so the only choice they have to make is to come up with a name! These characters really don't have any character until they develop it during play. In my campaign, they don't even start out with a class.

A few times I have attempted going even further into full "quantum character" mode, something like this:

Characters start with a set of six rolls of 3d6 (unassigned), 10 or so empty equipment slots, and a name (optionally).

Adventure begins. Every time an action the player orders creates a test of the character's attributes, the player must at that time make a choice and "collapse" their character a little bit toward their final form. E.g. the first time they try to force a stuck door, I ask them to assign one of their six rolls to Strength, and that is their Strength from then on. Next ability that gets "set" they have only five sets to choose from. Or if they need a rope to make their way down a shaft, they put it into one of their equipment slots. Once they've picked 10, that's all the stuff they brought with them.

This was a lot of fun. Character creation was happening completely simultaneously with play. We all discovered who the characters were in the moment as they faced danger or adversity. There was a choice to be made: "collapse" most beneficially, selecting the perfect item for the moment to place into inventory? or leave slots open and the character less defined, in case you really need something later on.

[waysoftheearth]

Feb 16, 2021 19:22:00 GMT -6 derv said:

Cleric alignment- typically I think it's best for a Cleric to declare Law or Chaos as soon as possible, but I have always understood that they need not declare an allegiance until 7th level in OD&D.

Pretty sure the 7th level option first appeared in the 5th print LBBS, whereas a 1st-4th print cleric is either "law" or "chaos" from the get go. FWIW, the earlier version makes more sense to me.

[derv]

Here's a link to the finished Character Workbook

It's five pages with cover and character sheets. So, three pages of directions like above.

[retrorob]

Feb 20, 2021 6:08:02 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

Feb 16, 2021 19:22:00 GMT -6 derv said:

Cleric alignment- typically I think it's best for a Cleric to declare Law or Chaos as soon as possible, but I have always understood that they need not declare an allegiance until 7th level in OD&D.

Pretty sure the 7th level option first appeared in the 5th print LBBS, whereas a 1st-4th print cleric is either "law" or "chaos" from the get go. FWIW, the earlier version makes more sense to me.

You're probably right. That's how I always interpreted it too. Clerics are Law/Good, Anti-clerics are Chaos/Evil, period. You have to choose side, if you want to be one.

As for the character creation. Roll 3d6 in order (always, it's set in stone). Try to tell who you are (stark, ugly). Choose name, gender, class, alignment, languages, spells. Roll for background/skill (I use table from AD&D). Roll for Hit Points. Roll for gold. Buy "adventurer's package" for 10 gp. Buy equipment. Ready to go.

[derv]

It's all perception and what those alignments actually mean to a person. FWIW, I don't use Chaos as a choice of PC alignment in my campaigns primarily because I use alignment as a cosmic side and not a psychological bent. As a consequence, it doesn't make sense to mix Law and Chaos in a party. This puts Neutrals in a position of not having chosen a side, which fits just fine with me in regards to the Cleric. At 7th level, if not before, they have a choice. If they choose Law, they may remain in the graces of the other PC's. If they choose Chaos, they become an enemy. In which case they can surround themselves with other chaotics and possibly some larger scale theatre occurs in the campaign. Never had it happen. Players typically choose Law.

[howandwhy99]

I don't use the 7th level Neutral Cleric cap rule. The game has subclass Druids of higher level, which perforce play to a neutral alignment. So the same is possible for the core class Clerics in my game, PC and NPC.

I do include 1-time-only fallen from lawful ex-Paladins and Character Loss due to Alignment Shift into chaotic, an NPC-only alignment, but I won't take a PC from a player because their high level Cleric's alignment shifted to neutral. I'd rather have high level neutral Clerics.

[derv]

Neutral alignment was originally relegated to those types that did not choose a side. In Chainmail, there are a few ideas implied with this. There are those who are outside of the mortal struggle, unobliged and uninterested. There are those who do not want to be drug into a conflict. Then there are those who are engaged in the conflict but remain neutral for monetary reasons, having no real conviction- the mercenary. Out of all of these, there are a couple who are predisposed to one side or the other. There is also this hidden idea of a possible three-way struggle where Neutrals will defend their lands and/or way of life from interlopers.

"Neutrals can be diced for to determine on which side they will fight, with ties meaning they remain neutral." p39

Presumably, Neutrals would either be under another player or the referees control or they would not be a playable figure choice at all.

In terms of D&D, considering the above, Neutrals would not be an alignment to be trusted or relied upon by either side. I think this fits with ideas presented by Arneson in the FFC.

[dicebro]

Feb 21, 2021 8:51:37 GMT -6 derv said:

It's all perception and what those alignments actually mean to a person. FWIW, I don't use Chaos as a choice of PC alignment in my campaigns primarily because I use alignment as a cosmic side and not a psychological bent. As a consequence, it doesn't make sense to mix Law and Chaos in a party. This puts Neutrals in a position of not having chosen a side, which fits just fine with me in regards to the Cleric. At 7th level, if not before, they have a choice. If they choose Law, they may remain in the graces of the other PC's. If they choose Chaos, they become an enemy. In which case they can surround themselves with other chaotics and possibly some larger scale theatre occurs in the campaign. Never had it happen. Players typically choose Law.

I do something similar. But going over to Chaos is severe in terms of consequences. Players can initially choose Law or be Neutral. But circumstances can change. E.g. if they don a helm of Chaos and fail a saving throw, then they lose the character.  The other members of the party will need to try and bring that character back.  Unless the player has been a jerk and needs to learn a lesson. But that part is out of my hands. Heh.  then they go to the side of chaos. They can still adventure with the party, but they may only use the Chaos alignment language. They will be attacked by Lawful NPCs and monsters if they reveal their new loyalty, of course. If the party finds out, then they must work together to correct the situation.  Clerics who choose Chaos may still adventure with a mixed party, but Lawful NPCs and creatures will still attack them.  Players who insist on choosing  Chaos as a side are in for a rough ride.  it just isn’t healthy, or profitable, to choose that path. 

[waysoftheearth]

Another enjoyable element of "the game of character creation" is tinkering with the design of the character generation subsystem itself.

One idea I've been kicking around for a while is reducing char gen to a single throw of 3d6. Initially, I wanted it as a tool for quickly creating NPCs on the fly, but it has potential for starter PCs too. Here's an outline/strawman to kick about...


Throw 3d6 with red, blue, and green dice and consult below:

Class and Race
The red and blue dice determine your PC's race and class:

*	Blue Die
Red Die	1	2	3	4	5	6
1	Magic-User
2	Cleric
3	Hobbit	Elf (M-U)			Dwarf
4		Elf (F-M)
5	Fighting-Man
6

Alignment
The green die and race/class determines alignment:

*	Green Die
Figure	1	2	3	4	5	6
F-M, M-U	Law		Neutral		Chaos
Cleric	Law			Chaos
Elf, Dwarf	Law			Neutral

Hobbits are always lawful.


Top Ability
The number of odd results on the blue and green dice, and the race/class determine the PC's high ability score. In 3-18 terms, assume this top ability is in the 13-16 range. If you really need/want to know an exact score, see Languages (below).

*	Number of Odd Results
Figure	0	1	2
F-M	Con	Str	Dex
M-U	Wis	Int	Cha
Cleric	Str	Wis	Cha
Elf	Int	Dex	Wis
Dwarf	Str	Con	Wis
Hobbit	Con	Dex	Wis

Hit Points
Take the difference between the highest and lowest dice results and add one.
F-M add one. Any PC with high constitution (see Top Ability, above) add another one.


Male/Female
If there are either 1 or 2 odd results among the blue, red and green dice the PC is male, otherwise female. This yeilds 75% male and 25% female PCs; obviously, you can tweak to taste.


Languages
All PCs speak common and one other language.

Clerics additionally speak lawful (or chaotic). Magic-users and clerics are literate, otherwise literacy counts as one language. Dwarfs and elves additionally speak dwarvish or elvish, respectively. Any PC with high intelligence speaks 3 additional languages plus 1 additional language for each odd die (if desired, you can reverse engineer an exact intelligence score from the number of languages spoken).


Starting Gear/Money
The number of odd results on the red and green dice combined with class (and to a lesser extent race) will determine the PC's starting gear per the following table:

--	Number of Odd Results
Type	0	1	2
F-M, CLERIC
Armor	Plate, helm	Mail, helm	Padded
F-M
Main Arms	two-hnd. sword	Battleaxe	Morning star
	OR	OR	OR
	downgrade to mail; longbow, quiver (20 arrows)	downgrade to padded; short bow, quiver (20 arrows)	lt. crossbox, case (30 quarrels)
	OR	OR	OR
	sword or axe, shield	axe or mace, shield	spear, shield
Side Arm	dagger or h.axe	dagger or h.axe	dagger or h.axe
CLERIC
Arms	mace, shield	minus helm, mace, shield	cudgel
Holy	silver Cross, Holy Water, garlic, candles (6)	silver Cross, garlic, candles (2)	wooden Cross, garlic
M-U
Arms	dagger or staff	dagger or staff	dagger or staff
Arcana	spellbook, belladona, wolvesbane, magnifying lens	spellbook, belladona, wolvesbane	spellbook, belladona
Ephemera	Pipeweed, smoking pipe, steel mirror, scrollcase (copper), parchment (12 leaves), ink bottle and quills	Pipeweed, smoking pipe, scrollcase (leather), parchment (6 leaves), ink bottle and quills	Pipeweed, smoking pipe, scroll case (leather), ball of twine, bag of marbles, knuckle bones
ALL
Light	bulls-eye lantern, oil, tinderbox	lantern, oil, tinderbox	torches, tinderbox
Carry	backpack, lg.sack, sm.sack	backpack, lg.sack	backpack, sm.sack
Gear	two of: rope, grapple, chain, iron spikes, crowbar, spade.	one of: rope, iron spikes, crowbar, spade.	one of: rope, iron spikes.
Supplies	Rations (1wk), wineskin, waterskin	Rations (1wk), waterskin	Food (1wk) Waterskin
Purse	20 g.p.	10 g.p.	5 g.p.

Elves, dwarfs, hobbits are per F-M or M-U.

Elves replace longbow with elfbow (18" range).
Hobbits replace longbow with shortbow, shortbow with lt crossbow, lt crossbow with sling. Add 1 week food.

[derv]

waysoftheearth, nice mix of using colored die results. Maybe you could incorporate the number of even results somehow too. Possibly a low ability or flaw? I like the single roll idea a lot. how about names and spell choices?

Post up a character with the time in the other thread. I'm thinking you're in the sub two minutes with recording the results on a character sheet.

[waysoftheearth]

Mmm, you'd need to be a bit cautious with the count of even dice because it's the corollary of the count of odd dice. So they're effectively the same thing. I think the "mostly free" variables we can play around with are the count of odds (or evens but not both) for: all three dice, and for each of the three pairs (blue-red, red-green, green-blue).

I threw in the difference between the highest and lowest dice to calculate hit points, but even this is a bit tricky cos (for example) it implies lawful and chaotic F-M/M-Us are more likely to have higher hp than neutral F-M/M-Us. Still... I think it's mostly workable.

I guess if we wanted to get *really* clever we could use counts of odds and evens and fashion the tables such that (for example) elves/hobbits/females would be less likely to be strong, or int/wis/cha are the corollary of str/con/dex, etc. but that would take some extra careful consideration

[derv]

Feb 22, 2021 19:31:15 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

I guess if we wanted to get *really* clever we could use counts of odds and evens and fashion the tables such that (for example) elves/hobbits/females would be less likely to be strong, or int/wis/cha are the corollary of str/con/dex, etc. but that would take some extra careful consideration

Or a fourth color die perhaps-say evens on yellow/green or yellow/red.

If we were just looking at abilities a single roll of four colored dice could give results of high, average, and low for all six.

[verhaden]

Feb 22, 2021 19:31:15 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

I threw in the difference between the highest and lowest dice to calculate hit points, but even this is a bit tricky cos (for example) it implies lawful and chaotic F-M/M-Us are more likely to have higher hp than neutral F-M/M-Us. Still... I think it's mostly workable.

The universe notices you — would be some good flavor for a game...

[hamurai]

I doubt this method saves a lot of time, but I like it for the sake of being a new approach.

You could use the average of the red and blue dice for HP. That way, FM and Dwarfs would be favoured, but that's pretty much what I'd expect from these classes.

[waysoftheearth]

Feb 23, 2021 23:55:20 GMT -6 hamurai said:

You could use the average of the red and blue dice for HP. That way, FM and Dwarfs would be favoured, but that's pretty much what I'd expect from these classes.

I did consider something like this, but as soon as I started playing around with the layout of the race/class table to accommodate it I realised it needed more thought than I was immediately prepared to put into it. As the table is right now Hobbits, for example, occur only on a throw of a 1 and a 3-4, so they would always get 2 or 3 hp. Not to say that's necessarily bad, just that you'd want to give the race/class table a bit more thought than I did