What is a "dungeon", anyway?

[Deleted]

Mar 12, 2021 12:51:47 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

Mar 5, 2021 17:50:10 GMT -6 @ampleframework said:

That title would make a fantastic title for a sword & sorcery roleplay campaign, wouldn't it? 

That is my second favorite Conan story ("Beyond the Black River" beating it by a nose). That said, I'm afraid that a lot of people when hearing the title "Red Nails" think of something like this:

I see no contradiction, especially when it comes to Conan and his taste in women. 

[geoffrey]

Good point!

[dicebro]

Mar 5, 2021 21:41:05 GMT -6 yesmar said:

Let’s not forget Clark Ashton Smith. Although many of his stories feature dungeon-like environments, there are two which spring immediately to mind:

The Tale of Satampra Zeiros — Ruined cities and crumbling fanes, anyone?

The Weaver in the Vault — More ruined cities… and unspeakable horror.

Also “The Seven Geases”.

[dicebro]

Mar 6, 2021 13:27:10 GMT -6 captainjapan said:

In '81 no one thought of playing D&D as the act of telling a story. It was a game. Even if stories might inspire its design gaming was the actual end.

howandwhy99 ,
I'd like to know what to make of this recollection from Rob Kuntz, recalling Gary's first rpg experience, where he describes the concept as a way to generate "stories"?! I doubt anyone ever sat down to play either chess or Stalingrad or Warhammer with the expectation of inspiring prose.

It is my understanding that One of Gary’s earliest goals was to become a published fantasy author.  He loved to read, he loved to write and he loved gaming. Kuntz’s first hand recollection has the ring of truth.  I recall some stories Gary wrote and published under a pseudonym in the earliest Dragon magazine issues. Of course, Gary eventually published his Gord series under his true name.  I would also like to know more about Mr. Kuntz’s recollection of Gary’s initial intent.  Maybe he will put this in his next book.

[Deleted]

Feb 15, 2021 23:48:40 GMT -6 captainjapan said:

(...)
Where, exactly does the D&D dungeon come from? It is fairly odd compared to other, real-world, underground topographies.

Where it come from I don't know, guys offered very good possible references in literature. Now I want to check some of them myself.
About "real underground complexes", certainly as interesting a labyrinth might be it's not the best example.

There were a couple of real-world underground complexes/cities. Derinkuyu in Turkey is a good example, but there are others.

If I would think of a "real-world reference" for Khazad-Dum, I would think about Wieliczka.




The idea was the same, guys created an underground complex digging deeper and deeper but they were after Salt instead of Mithril.
I don't know if they've found a Balrog though. 

[captainjapan]

I'm certain this isn't the inspiration for anything, but coincidentally a nineteenth century dungeon of sorts exists below the streets of downtown Seattle. The Seattle underground, I've just learned, is the original street level and storefronts of Seattle's Pioneer Square before the streets were rebuilt due to a fire in 1859. The location was featured heavily in the 1973 sequel to The Night Stalker, starring Darren McGavin as reporter Carl Kolchak and produced by Dark Shadows' Dan Curtis. I was able to find it in high quality, on YouTube, of all places:

[geoffrey]

Mar 27, 2021 8:51:56 GMT -6 dicebro said:

Also “The Seven Geases”.

One of my many unfinished projects is a D&D write-up of the dungeons/caverns that honeycomb Mount Voormithadreth.

[stevemitchell]

Finish it! Publish it!

[Deleted]

Quotes about dungeons:

"I think that really any system is a sort of a dungeon, if you look at it a certain way. Can’t you imagine crawling around inside of a ceiling fan"? – Tony Dowler

"In How to Host a Dungeon, you simulate the growth of a great megadungeon from the dawn of time through rising and falling civilizations, waves of monsters and adventurers, and great evils that threaten the world." –Tony Dowler

"Not merely an underground site or a lair, not sane, the underworld gnaws on the physical world like some chaotic cancer. It is inimical to men; the dungeon, itself, opposes and obstructs the adventurers brave enough to explore it." —Jason Cone, Philotomy’s Musings, p.22

“Story tellers are always careful to point out that the reputed dungeons lie in close proximity to the foundations of an older, pre-human city, to the graveyard, and to the sea.” – Dr. J. Eric Holmes

Finally, tellingly, rival dungeon factions have all the problems of city factions. These difficulties couple in a dungeon with both the detritus of light and resources, and again following, Jason Cone, the improbity of the living subterranean structure, itself. As indicated, this latter, queer and overbearing, “dungeon appetite” sets itself in horror, perdition, and pseudo-sentience against the endeavors, the health, and the very lives of any adventurers determined enough to venture therein. Let any survivors be counted. And, their blessings, too. Cavalier bards, depraved psychoanalysts, and other story mongers aside, no one else will.

Can you dig it?