Monster PCs

[Deleted]

I'm sure somebody has at least touched on this previously, but a search didn't turn anything up, so I'll start a new thread on it:

If anyone here has allowed monsters as PCs, how have you handled it?

I've just read an older blog post from delta on the topic, and the system there is very elegant and usable but focuses only on "run of the mill" examples of some common monster types which might come up in the case of a charm or reincarnation situation rather than full-on PCs with race, class, etc.

Though mine is a very human-centric game, other races are opening up as the PCs encounter communities of those beings and befriend or otherwise make a good impression on them. They recently did so with lizardfolk, and while my quick-and-dirty write-up on how to make lizardfolk PCs "feels right" for now, I'd like to know how anyone else has handled it (or would handle it) so that I have more ideas to draw from moving forward.

[geoffrey]

James Mishler has written-up some very cool monster PC classes, such as balrogs, type V demons, and type IV demons:
www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2438/James-Mishler-Games

[dicebro]

One guy asked me if he could play a Sidhe or some kind of fey character in my online 3 LBB game. I tried to work with him. But he left for an online 5th Edition game because the characters weren’t nearly as powerful at first level in OD&D. He wasn’t able to do what he thought his character should be able to do. ( which was pretty much dominate the party in my opinion). He liked the fact that the 5e rules for everything were explicitly set out for the players to see, and that D&D 5th edition had the game down to a science. I told him that my game is more of an art than a science. So he left. We can’t please everyone.

[dicebro]

I tried to handle the Sidhe character by looking up the creature in the folklore books & websites. Then I tried to work with the player on level advancement and “powers”. It wasn’t easy. He played 2 sessions and left before being able to advance in level. He wanted the power to go invisible at will. I didn’t think this was fitting at first level. I suggested that every time he went invisible there was a chance his character would be summoned to the Seely Court, charged with the crime of fraternization with humanity. Lol.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2021 15:35:37 GMT -6 dicebro said:

I tried to handle the Sidhe character by looking up the creature in the folklore books & websites. Then I tried to work with the player on level advancement and “powers”. It wasn’t easy. He played 2 sessions and left before being able to advance in level. He wanted the power to go invisible at will. I didn’t think this was fitting at first level. I suggested that every time he went invisible there was a chance his character would be summoned to the Seely Court, charged with the crime of fraternization with humanity. Lol.

That Seely Court bit is a pretty fun idea!

In my own game, none of the new races I'm allowing are explicitly supernatural. Elves are already alien enough in that sense. More things like lizardfolk and the like: slightly oddball not-the-usual-demihumans races, but not 5e-level "half-demons are pretty common" stuff. And it's all remaining in my own control. I have set areas where specific races tend to live in large enough numbers for PCs to come out of those settlements, and the existing PCs have to make it to those places and in some way befriend the locals for any of this to matter. They recently rescued a scouting party of lizardfolk from some invading cyborgs and helped the lizardfolk to get back to their settlement. As a result, lizardfolk PCs are now available as either Fighters or Magic-Users — complete with level caps and special abilities and limitations.

I also appreciate your "more art than science" take. While systems do matter, I think it's important for OD&D players to understand that the MUCH simpler systems we're working with demand a different type of standardization and interpretation compared to 5e. The result is (in my own experience, anyway) a much more extemporaneous, much less railroaded game.

This also brings to mind another older post from Delta's blog about keeping things more or less rooted in reality. When we let fantastical elements absolutely dominate the milieu (as is the default in 5e), nothing ever feels mysterious or special. Lizardfolk and orcs at least can be played as perfectly natural, and so near enough to humans for a human player to identify with them, but when you make a half-demon seem "ordinary" I think something has gone wrong.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2021 13:34:10 GMT -6 @theghoulpriest said:

I'm sure somebody has at least touched on this previously, but a search didn't turn anything up, so I'll start a new thread on it:

If anyone here has allowed monsters as PCs, how have you handled it?

I've just read an older blog post from delta on the topic, and the system there is very elegant and usable but focuses only on "run of the mill" examples of some common monster types which might come up in the case of a charm or reincarnation situation rather than full-on PCs with race, class, etc.

Though mine is a very human-centric game, other races are opening up as the PCs encounter communities of those beings and befriend or otherwise make a good impression on them. They recently did so with lizardfolk, and while my quick-and-dirty write-up on how to make lizardfolk PCs "feels right" for now, I'd like to know how anyone else has handled it (or would handle it) so that I have more ideas to draw from moving forward.

I use a custom approach to such things in my 3lbb games (this includes the pbps I'm running and will be, so players who are involved are free to meta-game this information).

Firstly, I like the idea of "unlockable content" in rpgs. Maybe because I grew up with video games, but there's something about earning content that wasn't there from the beginning that appeals to me. So, for instance, you might encounter a Kobold in the game world, charm him into your service, then elevate him from hireling to PC. That's one way to attain a monster PC. 

As for the abilities of those specific creatures, I would wait until someone actually wanted to play one to noodle it out. I've done common ones like Orcs and Kobolds before and their descriptions in the text are sufficient to know what their strengths and weaknesses are. Orcs are basically like Elves* but don't do well in direct sunlight, and Kobolds behave a lot like Dwarves in many respects, but, again, hate direct sunlight. (Monster PCs ought to have some weaknesses. It's appropriate to the genre and goes into the Human-O-Centric worldview.)

This might also apply to special abilities or sub-classes as well. Perhaps something like the Paladin or Ranger archetypes. Ancient tomes of lore might or might not exist in the game world. Collecting and studying enough of them might unlock those abilities. Who can say? 

On the topic of monsters walking around in towns, however, I hew close to Gary's Human-O-Centric worldview. There's no reason a player shouldn't be able to attain a Hobgoblin through the course of play and even use him in the dungeon or wilderness scenario, but ask yourself how the common people in most towns or strongholds would react to seeing such a creature out shopping for gear or trying to buy a room at the inn. The entire social structure would have to be upheaved for that to happen. This isn't a 5e campaign where Tieflings and Dragonborn just waltz around like they belong, after all. This is more grounded. 


******
The major exception would be an entire campaign or adventure revolving around monsters or evil humanoids. I've ran one or two where the players started off as marauding Cavemen or Orcs in the past, just to try a different flavor. 

*You can argue Humans but Orcs per 3lbb can be Fighting-Men or Magic-Users, like Elves, and in Tolkien they're corrupted descendants of captured Elves.