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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 7:14:56 GMT -6
Lesser known/discussed on the internet than the iconic holy grail of the OSR, Gary Gygax's iconic "Appendix N" from the AD&D DMG, is the list Tom Moldvay made for the Basic D&D (B/X) line. I'm only about halfway through Appendix N myself, although there's some overlap here. Reading every author on Moldvay's list will be a daunting task, but one I intend to eventually complete as well. Has anyone here read many of these authors? What are your impressions of how they differ, tonally, from the ones exclusively on Gary's list? How does this fiction influence the DM to approach the game differently from an AD&D DM steeped in Appendix N?
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Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 24, 2020 8:03:13 GMT -6
Well, that's quite a list! Let's see what we've got (my "read" listing in red text):
FICTION: YOUNG ADULT FANTASY Alexander, Lloyd — The Book of Three; Black Cauldron; Castle of Llyr, et al. Baum, L. Frank - The Wizard of Oz; The Emerald City of Oz; The Land of Oz, et al. Bellairs, John - The Face in the Frost; The House Without a Clock on Its Walls; The Figure in the Shadows, et al. Burroughs, Edgar Rice — A Princess of Mars; At the Earth's Core; Tarzan of the Apes, et al. Carroll, Lewis — Alice's Adventures in Wonderland; Through the Looking Glass Garner, Alan — Elidor, The Weirdstone of Brisingamen; The Moon of Gomrath, et al. Le Guin, Ursula K. - A Wizard of Earthsea; The Tombs of Atuan; The Farthest Shore, et al. Lewis, C. S. - The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe; Prince Caspian; The Voyage of the "Dawn Treader", et al.
NON-FICTION: YOUNG ADULT Barber, Richard — A Companion to World Mythology Buehr, Walter - Chivalry and the Mailed Knight Coolidge, Olivia — Greek Myths; The Trojan War; Legends of the North d'Aulaire, Ingri and Edgar Parin — Norse Gods and Giants; Trolls Hazeltine, Alice — Hero Tales from Many Lands Hillyer, Virgil - Young People's Story of the Ancient World: Prehistory - 500 B.C. Jacobs, Joseph - English Folk and Fairy Tales Macauley, David - Castles McHargue, Georgess — The Beasts of Never: A History Natural and Unnatural of Monsters, Mythical and Magical; The Impossible People Renault, Mary — The Lion in the Gateway Sellow, Catherine F. — Adventures with the Giants Sutcliff, Rosemary — Tristram and Iseult Williams, Jay - Life in the Middle Ages Winer, Bart - Life in the Ancient World
FICTION: ADULT FANTASY Anderson, Poul - Three Hearts and Three Lions; The Broken Sword; The Merman's Children, et al. Anthony, Piers — A Spell for Chameleon; The Source of Magic; Castle Roogna Asprin, Robert — Another Fine Myth Brackett, Leigh — The Coming of the Terrans; The Secret of Sinharat; People of the Talisman, et al. Campbell, J. Ramsey — Demons by Daylight Davidson, Avram — The Island Under the Earth; Ursus of Ultima Thule; The Phoenix in the Mirror, et al. de Camp, L. Sprague - The Fallible Fiend; The Goblin Tower, et al. de Camp, L. Sprague and Pratt, Fletcher — The Incomplete Enchanter; Land of Unreason, et al. Dunsany, Lord — Over the Hills and Far Away; Book of Wonder; The King of Elfland's Daughter, et al. Eddison, E. R. - The Worm Ouroboros Eisenstein, Phyllis — Born to Exile; Sorcerer's Son Farmer, Phillip Jose — The Gates of Creation; The Maker of Universes; A Private Cosmos, et al. Finney, Charles G. - The Unholy City; The Circus of Dr. Lao Heinlein, Robert A. - Glory Road Howard, Robert E. - Conan; Red Nails; Pigeons from Hell Lee, Tanith - Night's Master; The Storm Lord; The Birthgrave, et al. Leiber, Fritz — The Swords of Lankhmar; Swords Against Wizardry; Swords Against Death, et al. Lovecraft, H. P. - The Doom that Came to Sarnath; The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath; The Dunwich Horror Merritt, A. E. - The Moon Pool; Dwellers in the Mirage; The Ship of Ishtar, etal. Moorcock, Michael — The Stealer of Souls; The Knight of the Swords; Gloriana, et al. Mundy, Talbot — Tros of Samothrace Niven, Larry — The Flight of the Horse; The Magic Goes Away Norton, Andre - Witch World; The Year of the Unicorn; The Crystal Gryphon, et al. Offutt, Andrew — The Iron Lords; Shadows Out of Hell Pratt, Fletcher - The Blue Star; The Well of the Unicorn Smith, Clark Ashton - Xiccarph; Lost Worlds; Genius Loci Stewart, Mary — The Crystal Cave; The Hollow Hills; The Last Enchantment Stoker, Bram — Dracula Swann, Thomas Burnett — Cry Silver Bells; The Tournament of the Thorns; Moondust, et al. Tolkien, J. R. R. - The Hobbit; The Lord of the Rings (trilogy) Vance, Jack — The Eyes of the Overworld; Dying Earth; The Dragon Masters, et al. Wagner, Karl Edward — Bloodstone; Death Angel's Shadow; Dark Crusade, et al. White, Theodore H. - The Once and Future King Zelazny, Roger — Jack of Shadows; Lord of Light; Nine Princes in Amber, et al.
Some additional authors of fantasy fiction are: Beagle, Peter S. Bok, Hannes Cabell, James Branch Carter, Lin Cherryh, C. J. Delany, Samuel R. Fox, Gardner Gaskell, Jane Green, Roland Haggard, H. Rider Jakes, John Kurtz, Katherine Lanier, Sterling McCaffrey, Anne McKillip, Patricia A. Moore, C. L. Myers, John Myers Peake, Mervyn Saberhagen, Fred Walton, Evangeline Wellman, Manly Wade Williamson, Jack
SHORT STORY COLLECTIONS: Carter, Lin (ed.) — The Year's Best Fantasy Stories (in several volumes); Flashing Swords (also in several volumes) Offutt, Andrew (ed.) — Swords Against Darkness (in several volumes)
NON-FICTION Borges, Jorge Luis — The Book of Imaginary Beings Bullfinch, Thomas — Bullfinch's Mythology: The Age of Fable, The Age of Chivalry Leach, Maria & Fried, Jerome — Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend
Looks like I've read perhaps more than I expected from this list, given that I don't think I've ever sought out any of them specifically unlike with Appendix N. I tend to read authors by the batch, so I've read more books than the ones listed behind each name - with some I've read pretty much everything they've written that I could get my hands on. Mostly I'll keep reading an author until I run out of books by them, or they get boring. Sadly, the latter happens quite often when I read like that. Authors tend to be quite formulaic and repetitive if you don't wait years and read lots of other authors between releases.
Predictably the non-fiction ones are the ones where I missed out most, mainly because I would have read different books on the same topics based on availability at the the and place.
I do think there's definitely a more "modern" feel to the Moldvay list than Appendix N, much more than you'd expect for a 4-year publication difference. Probably because Moldvay was younger, as well as all the new stuff that came out (or old stuff that became popularised) in the time between the two.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 9:59:19 GMT -6
Just as an aside, and strangely - perhaps it's an age thing - Vile Traveller hasn't read C.S. Lewis or Frank Baum, and I have, quite accidentally, years before knowing any such reading list exists.
I feel the same about the non-fiction ones. I've read books on every single one of those subjects, especially as a kid from the school library, but not these books or these authors necessarily.
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Post by stevemitchell on Dec 24, 2020 10:16:24 GMT -6
"Campbell, J. Ramsey — Demons by Daylight"
That's an odd choice, considering it is a collection of horror stories, all with a modern setting. A good book, but there's really no overlap at all with fantasy adventure. It wasn't available at the time, but Campbell's collection of sword & sorcery stories, Far Away and Never, would be a much better addition to an updated Moldvay list.
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Post by jeffb on Dec 24, 2020 12:59:41 GMT -6
As a kid and teen, I went through books like crazy: a trait I got from my Mother, as my Father only had a few years of elementary grade education and preferred not to read other than look at his stock values in the Newspaper.
BUT- I have to admit, I'm extremely NOT well-read, when it comes to appendix N or Tom's list. I hit all the big ones, Leiber, CS Lewis, Howard, some Vance, Burroughs, Moorcock, Lovecraft, Tolkien, and some others through the pages of The Dragon (or more often probably, Sorcerer's Apprentice) but my taste in fiction quickly changed and I began to pursue Ian Fleming's Bond, Frederick Forsyth, and "low grade, high kill" mercenary/paramilitary/counter terrorist fiction ala "Executioner" (Mack Bolan) series, "Phoenix Force" series , "Able Team" and others- which is also how my gaming began to shift from D&D and then RQ to MSPE, Espionage!, Aftermath, Justice, Inc, TW2K, and James Bond 007.
Post becoming a Father-as soon as I get actual QUIET time around my house where I could concentrate on reading a novel, I lay down and pick up a book, and either it's on my face and I'm out within 5 minutes, or my Wife decides to chat me up about whatever.
I keep making an attempt to even just *start* getting through some of these authors, but I'm guessing it won't be until my youngest is out of the house that I can approach it in earnest LOL.
So I'm jealous, but enjoying the discussion nonetheless.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Dec 24, 2020 14:20:12 GMT -6
Re: Robert Asprin, I see the Thieves' World anthologies aren't on the list. I love those books.
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Post by jeffb on Dec 24, 2020 20:55:22 GMT -6
Re: Robert Asprin, I see the Thieves' World anthologies aren't on the list. I love those books. Agreed. Picked that up after seeing all the ads for the Chaosium boxed set (and then bought that too when I first saw it on a shelf)
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Post by asaki on Dec 24, 2020 22:14:07 GMT -6
Fiction: Young Adult Fantasy Baum, L. Frank - The Wizard of Oz, The Emerald City of Oz, The Land of Oz, et al. - I was collecting all of these for a while, the last one I bought (and read) was Patchwork Girl of Oz. Bellairs, John - The House Without a Clock on its Walls, The Figure in the Shadows Burroughs, Edgar Rice - Tarzan of the Apes - I'm maybe halfway through the first book ¬_¬ LeGuin, Ursula - A Wizard of Earthsea Lewis, CS - The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - I've been meaning to read the rest for a very long time, but just never got around to it. Fiction: Adult Fantasy Anderson, Poul - Three Hearts and Three Lions - Just bought this one recently, started reading it, really good so far. Howard, Robert E. - Conan, Red Nails, Pigeons from Hell - Only read a little bit here and there, need to read more. Lieber, Fritz - The Swords of Lankhmar, Swords Against Wizardry, Swords Against Death, et al. - I've got a bookmark almost halfway through the first three-book collection, but I really don't remember reading that much of it. I wonder if it fell out. Lovecraft, H.P. - The Doom that Came to Sarnath, The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, The Dunwich Horror - I've read tons of Lovecraft. Not everything, but most of it. Stoker, Bram - Dracula Tolkien, J.R.R. - The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings (Trilogy) Fox, Gardner - He used to write Batman in the early early days, if that counts  But I much prefer Bill Finger's stories.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 7:07:50 GMT -6
Batman always counts. A lot of Batman's DNA is in D&D, I feel. Comic book heroes are the overlooked/unsung element to these Appendices. It's clear how deep the influence goes from the very beginning. Look at how much of OD&D artwork was traced from comics, for instance. Also stuff like ESP and medallions of thought control are straight Doctor Strange.
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Post by jeffb on Dec 25, 2020 7:43:43 GMT -6
Batman always counts. A lot of Batman's DNA is in D&D, I feel. Comic book heroes are the overlooked/unsung element to these Appendices. It's clear how deep the influence goes from the very beginning. Look at how much of OD&D artwork was traced from comics, for instance. Also stuff like ESP and medallions of thought control are straight Doctor Strange. FWIW- Ken St. Andre was a librarian and well read in "appendix N" type books before he saw D&D, but he has indicated the S&S/Adventure comics of the day were a bigger influence on him, not only fictionally but also in designing the combat system (which is another thread).
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Parzival
Level 5 Thaumaturgist
 
Is a little Stir Crazy this year...
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Post by Parzival on Dec 28, 2020 21:51:41 GMT -6
Of the YA Fantasy list, I’ve read all of them except Alan Garner (never heard of him), and a few of the Bellairs titles (though I have read The Face in the Frost and The House with a Clock in Its Walls). (My taste tends to run to “younger” literature as it places a premium on plot, characterization, and story over adult books’ tendencies to go into a morass of philosophy, moodiness, and graphically detailed violence and sex, which rarely advance either story or plot.)
Of the YA Non-Fiction, I’ve read only David McCauley’s Castle )(and, not mentioned Cathedral). But I have read considerable non-fiction on the subjects, so I don’t feel a need to pursue these.
Adult fiction, I’ve read a number of them, but not nearly all. I’m not big on dystopia, or the “failing world” settings, or psychedelic fantasy, or gritty dark fantasy (so the list is getting thinner for me). I’m a rarity in not really liking Conan stories, though I will read them. But I’ve still read a decent mix of these, and I’m interested in looking closer at some titles I wasn’t aware of, even though they are by writers I like.
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