No Hobbits in D&D land

[geoffrey]

I find it interesting that Hobbits are not in Monsters & Treasure at all, nor are they on any of the encounter tables in The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.

Hobbits appear only in Men & Magic, where it is said on page 8: "Should any player wish to be one..."

That indicates to me that "D&D Land" as presented in the 1974 rules does NOT have any native Hobbits. The ONLY Hobbits would be Hobbit PCs (if any). One can assume that these vanishingly rare Hobbits were magically brought to D&D Land from Middle-earth.

So D&D Land (as presented in the 1974 rules) has plenty of men, elves, dwarves, and gnomes running around. But no Hobbits other than any PC Hobbits.

[carjack]

I'm thinking that Gygax and Arneson may have just been sticking close to their source material. As far as adventuring hobbits were concerned; Bilbo, Frodo and his companions are the very rare exception to a race of homebodies.

Hobbits rarely leave their Shire and are even mostly unknown in Middle Earth except in some legends in the south. The reason you don't randomly encounter hobbits in the wild or in a dungeon is that they would not dream of blundering about in the wilderness, let alone crawling into some dank hole somewhere, no matter how much gold might be in there.

This, I think, is also the reasoning behind hobbits being limited to 4th level as fighting men. No hobbits really ever get beyond 4th not through lack of ability, but lack of interest. Once a hobbit has a good sum of treasure under his belt, he is more likely to dig a nice smial down by the river and settle down in front of six squares a day than go looking for more wealth. All of Tolkein's hobbits have adventuring careers that span not much over a year and a half, and they all seemed more than happy to settle down again afterwards.

Furthermore, it is my belief that the "halflings" spoken of in later printings and editions are not hobbits at all, but a different breed of creature that is somewhat related to them, but are much more like Men than anything else. These halflings tend to seek careers in theivery, live closer to Men than hobbits would dare and are much more outgoing and adventurous than their hobbit predecessors. They are often confused with the older, stodgier, breed through their size and manner of dress, which are similar.

[TheMyth]

Oct 10, 2008 12:12:54 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

I find it interesting that Hobbits are not in Monsters & Treasure at all, nor are they on any of the encounter tables in The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.

Hobbits appear only in Men & Magic, where it is said on page 8: "Should any player wish to be one..."

That indicates to me that "D&D Land" as presented in the 1974 rules does NOT have any native Hobbits. The ONLY Hobbits would be Hobbit PCs (if any). One can assume that these vanishingly rare Hobbits were magically brought to D&D Land from Middle-earth.

So D&D Land (as presented in the 1974 rules) has plenty of men, elves, dwarves, and gnomes running around. But no Hobbits other than any PC Hobbits.

But, they appear in Chainmail on page 29:

"HOBBITS: These little chaps have little place in the wargame, but you may want them for recreation of certain battles. Remember that they are able to blend into the background and so make excellent scouts. They can fire a stone as far as an archer shoots, and because of their well known accuracy, for every two Hobbits firing count three on the Missile Fire table.

Morale Rating --5 Point Value -- (-)"

And on a chart on page 43:

Move 12", become invisible in brush or woods, Missile Range 15", Fight & Defend as Light Foot.

I think this suggests that the Hobbits just like to avoid fighting, but can be quite the scrappers if pushed. They are not "Monsters" perhaps because you're not supposed to kill them and take their stuff. ;-)

[philotomy]

Oct 10, 2008 22:46:44 GMT -6 TheMyth said:

[Hobbits] are not "Monsters" perhaps because you're not supposed to kill them and take their stuff. ;-)

I would.

[apeloverage]

Oct 10, 2008 13:25:16 GMT -6 carjack said:

Furthermore, it is my belief that the "halflings" spoken of in later printings and editions are not hobbits at all, but a different breed of creature that is somewhat related to them, but are much more like Men than anything else. These halflings tend to seek careers in theivery, live closer to Men than hobbits would dare and are much more outgoing and adventurous than their hobbit predecessors. They are often confused with the older, stodgier, breed through their size and manner of dress, which are similar.

Maybe the Shire got briefly taken over by an evil sorcerer, and a lot of them left - the halflings are the next generation, who are much more used to human society.

[foster1941]

Oct 10, 2008 12:12:54 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

I find it interesting that Hobbits are not in Monsters & Treasure at all, nor are they on any of the encounter tables in The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.

Hobbits appear only in Men & Magic, where it is said on page 8: "Should any player wish to be one..."

That indicates to me that "D&D Land" as presented in the 1974 rules does NOT have any native Hobbits. The ONLY Hobbits would be Hobbit PCs (if any). One can assume that these vanishingly rare Hobbits were magically brought to D&D Land from Middle-earth.

So D&D Land (as presented in the 1974 rules) has plenty of men, elves, dwarves, and gnomes running around. But no Hobbits other than any PC Hobbits.

Of course, by that same logic D&D Land also has no humans except for wandering bands of bandits, berserkers, brigands, dervishes, nomads, buccaneers, pirates, cave men, and name-level adventurers. A much more reasonable reading is that non-PC hobbits, like humans who don't fit into any of the above categories, are non-combatants who spend their time in town rather than wandering around the wilderness looking for trouble.

[geoffrey]

Oct 11, 2008 14:57:52 GMT -6 foster1941 said:

Oct 10, 2008 12:12:54 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

I find it interesting that Hobbits are not in Monsters & Treasure at all, nor are they on any of the encounter tables in The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures.

Hobbits appear only in Men & Magic, where it is said on page 8: "Should any player wish to be one..."

That indicates to me that "D&D Land" as presented in the 1974 rules does NOT have any native Hobbits. The ONLY Hobbits would be Hobbit PCs (if any). One can assume that these vanishingly rare Hobbits were magically brought to D&D Land from Middle-earth.

So D&D Land (as presented in the 1974 rules) has plenty of men, elves, dwarves, and gnomes running around. But no Hobbits other than any PC Hobbits.

Of course, by that same logic D&D Land also has no humans except for wandering bands of bandits, berserkers, brigands, dervishes, nomads, buccaneers, pirates, cave men, and name-level adventurers. A much more reasonable reading is that non-PC hobbits, like humans who don't fit into any of the above categories, are non-combatants who spend their time in town rather than wandering around the wilderness looking for trouble.

Good point, and completely true.

It reminds me of the first D&D map I created: a continental map. My map was broken up into various regions in which different types of monsters lived: Giant Land, Dragon Island, Land of Oozes, etc. The ONLY human placed on the map was the evil sorcerer's castle in the middle of the map, surrounded by a land of volcanoes and flowing lava. You could say the demographics were VERY peculiar: the only humans on the continent were the PCs, the evil sorcerer, and the occasional bandit, berserker, evil magic-user, etc.

[Haldo Bramwise]

Oct 11, 2008 3:37:25 GMT -6 philotomy said:

Oct 10, 2008 22:46:44 GMT -6 TheMyth said:

[Hobbits] are not "Monsters" perhaps because you're not supposed to kill them and take their stuff. ;-)

I would.

Everybody hates the halflings!

[jrients]

Oct 11, 2008 17:43:25 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

It reminds me of the first D&D map I created: a continental map. My map was broken up into various regions in which different types of monsters lived: Giant Land, Dragon Island, Land of Oozes, etc. The ONLY human placed on the map was the evil sorcerer's castle in the middle of the map, surrounded by a land of volcanoes and flowing lava. You could say the demographics were VERY peculiar: the only humans on the continent were the PCs, the evil sorcerer, and the occasional bandit, berserker, evil magic-user, etc.

I'd adventure there!

[TheMyth]

Oct 11, 2008 19:00:19 GMT -6 Haldo Bramwise said:

Oct 11, 2008 3:37:25 GMT -6 philotomy said:

I would.

Everybody hates the halflings!

I've seen elf hate.

And now halfling hate.

But I have yet to see dwarf hate!

I mean, hey, they got all the mine-fruit to plunder!

[philotomy]

I like hobbits in Lord of the Rings, but not so much in D&D. Elves and dwarves are a little bit more acceptable...but not by much...

[apeloverage]

Oct 11, 2008 17:43:25 GMT -6 geoffrey said:

It reminds me of the first D&D map I created: a continental map. My map was broken up into various regions in which different types of monsters lived: Giant Land, Dragon Island, Land of Oozes, etc. The ONLY human placed on the map was the evil sorcerer's castle in the middle of the map, surrounded by a land of volcanoes and flowing lava. You could say the demographics were VERY peculiar: the only humans on the continent were the PCs, the evil sorcerer, and the occasional bandit, berserker, evil magic-user, etc.

And presumably a transient population of metal bands looking for inspiration? ;D

[Haldo Bramwise]

I was mostly referring to the current old school artists who always seem to depict halflings as either dead or dying in their art!

[darneson]

OK here it is.
It was believed by TSR that Hobbit was CC JRR Tolkien. We even got a nasty note from them. So Hobbit was expunged and either dropped or Halfling replaced it. Now it turned out that wasn't true and at that time the estate was a toothless wonder. As we learned the truth that changed again. This happened with WOM and G, GD And H as well.

Dave Arneson
Dark Lord of Gaming

[Deleted]

EGG is on record that he believed Tolkien was a secondary influence on D&D, which is probably related to the non-entities that Hobbits are portrayed in OD&D.

[capheind]

I love halflings, they make great torchbearers, when they aren't brave enough to go into that dark room alone they're easy enough to pickup and punt through the door, enter if you don't hear screams and crunchy noises

Maybe Halflings and Hobbits are the same exact thing, Halflings are just the ones who choose to live as half a human rather than a whole fat lazy hobbit in a hole?

[delve]

I tried looking up through some early game material and "Hobbits" seem to be back ground personalities. Or they were always there and no one really bothered to pay them any attention. Here is some early info on Hobbits I discovered.

HOBBITS

*Judges Guild 1977 - Ready Ref Sheets*
Hobbits are listed with monster encounters
Hobbit - AC 7 Move: 6" Hit Dice 1-1, Attack Damage 1-4 or Sling +3, Alignment: Neutral/Lawful, Treasure: 65%
Hobbit Smials - 2-7 rooms, passages and rooms are 6" in height.

*Dave Arnesons First Campaign Setting 1977*
They are mentioned, to be guides to wayward travellers.
Migration Travellers 10% of 1 - 6000 Hobbits, so you can tell they don't tend to venture out of their homelands much.

[calithena]

Ofcourse, by that same logic D&D Land also has no humans except for wandering bands of bandits, berserkers, brigands, dervishes, nomads, buccaneers, pirates, cave men, and name-level adventurers.

This also sounds like a fun campaign world.