Morale: check at 1/3 losses or some other value?

[rustic313]

Quick question/poll.  We've had a number of threads on morale over the years but I wanted to really hone in on one specific case.  This discussions assumes that (A) you check morale for NPCs/monsters and (B) one of the triggers is some sort of level of losses.

Men and magic states:

Non-player characters and men-at-arms will have to make morale checks
(using the above reaction table or "Chainmail") whenever a highly dangerous or
un-nerving situation arises. Poor morale will mean that those in question will not
perform as expected

Chainmail tells us:

Instability Due to Excess Casualties: When casualties from any and all causes
exceed a certain percentage of a unit's original total strength, morale for that
unit must be checked by rolling two dice...  If the unit remains stable, it need not
again check morale until such time as it suffers losses to the stated percentage of
its original strength, but at that time it must be removed from the table for the
remainder of the game...

The table in Chainmail then shows light troops checking at 1/4 losses (and automatically breaking at 1/2 losses, presumably), various heavy/elite troops checking at 1/2 losses (and never autobreaking -- fight to the last!), and the remainder checking at 1/3 then autobreaking at 2/3 losses.

For D&D purposes, do we need the gradations of checking at 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2, or do you just we can just check at 1/3 losses all the time?  My "as written" rules guide say to use the gradations but in practice its fairly fiddly and I'm thinking of simplifying to the "check at 1/3, auto-break at 2/3" as a general rule.

Arguments for the gradations:
- Light infantry (which agreeably includes a lot of humanoid fodder, like packs of goblins) are easily scattered.  Get jumped by 12 goblins?  No big deal -- drop three of them and the rest will probably run.
- Heavy/elite troops have a chance to fight to the bitter end.  If they pass that first morale check they will never automatically break.  Without the rule for elites checking as late as 1/2 then you can't ever have Spartans who fight to the last -- every force will eventually break at some point.
- If you can't decide what class a monster falls into just call it 1/3 and move on.

Arguments against:
- Its too fiddly to bother with at the man-to-man scale.
- Given the number of types of monsters, armor/troop combinations, etc it is impractical to apply.
- In chainmail, light troops are always quick to check/break.  In D&D there's no reason why the lowly torch bearers or light footmen can't be put into a chain mail hauberk by his adventurer patrol.  Does doing so transform them from light foot/levies that break at the first sign of trouble?  Or does putting on that better armor magically transform them into someone better able to see a few more friends drop before they consider deserting?

Interested in perspectives on this.  I think the OD&D verbiage is loose enough to play it either way.

[hamurai]

I tend to check morale when some major demoralizing thing happens, like the death of a group leader, or the wizard casts a mighty destructive spell and takes out a bunch of enemies, or even when a non-veteran enemy gets hit hard and/or loses their weapon... The list goes on. I try to find a good reason for every enemy why they would rather run. Loss of lots of HP is usually a good indicator, as is loss of the majority of the group.

It really depends on the enemy, though, not on unit strength. This isn't a war game. Unless you play a mass battle, of course

[Desparil]

Dec 10, 2020 17:57:12 GMT -6 rustic313 said:

The table in Chainmail then shows light troops checking at 1/4 losses (and automatically breaking at 1/2 losses, presumably), various heavy/elite troops checking at 1/2 losses (and never autobreaking -- fight to the last!), and the remainder checking at 1/3 then autobreaking at 2/3 losses.

If you wanted to go strictly by-the-book, I would say the most relevant passage is actually this one, in the Man-To-Man section:

Morale: Generally speaking, defenders in a castle need never check morale. In other cases morale is to be checked when 33 1/3% of an army has been killed. Use the standard morale tables, check by type of troop, and allow any bonuses to dice.

Presumably monster in their lairs would be considered the equivalent of castle defenders, whereas wandering monsters would use the one-third rule. As for what morale score to use, the Light Foot category is typically used for war engine crews, peasants, and archers; I would say that even goblins should count as Heavy Foot (and they do attack as Heavy Foot in Chainmail mass combat), and probably anything above 1 HD (hobgoblins and better) should check morale as Armored Foot. 

[tombowings]

I check at:
* First casualty
* 1/2 Strength
* Death of leader
* First use of adverse magic (fireball, etc.)

[aldarron]

Given that D&D is a collaboration between Gygax and Arenson, and rather than trying to shoehorn in one of Gygax's different, fiddly CM methods, it is my preference to use the morale rule they gave in another game they created together, Don't Give up the Ship

"Morale rolls are taken on the turn a mast is lost, and are taken for every 10% of crew factors lost doe to enemy fire; of course, this means a roll every time a mast falls and every time Crew Factor losses rise past another 10% mark." DGutS p. 9

I simply substitute "leader" for mast in the above, and do a morale check on a 10% or more loss. That means pretty frequent checks, which I like. I also use the Strategos type table in DGuts, but you could just as well roll on the reaction table as the OD&D books suggest.

[Deleted]

I use morale checks like I do most mechanics - when it makes sense to me in the heat of the action. It's a good olive branch when the odds look really bad for the PCs and one of them does something super creative or risky to gain and advantage. Shades of Han Solo's suicide charge into those Stormtroopers in the first Star Wars film. Really caught them off guard and freaked them out. Might work on some Orcs, too. Try it and see.

[tdenmark]

Dec 11, 2020 0:31:13 GMT -6 tombowings said:

I check at:
* First casualty
* 1/2 Strength
* Death of leader
* First use of adverse magic (fireball, etc.)

Pretty much how I handle it too.

[tetramorph]

Dec 11, 2020 0:31:13 GMT -6 tombowings said:

I check at:
* First casualty
* 1/2 Strength
* Death of leader
* First use of adverse magic (fireball, etc.)

I like the above, except I don’t worry about magic in particular. Feels too ubiquitous in the kind of campaigns I’m familiar with to stand out too much.

I chose “something different,” in the survey, but I don’t like the adjective “entirely,” in the choice description. I feel like what I do is my own kind of intuitive thing developed from trying to follow the rules more strictly. So all those times of trying to use the ⅓ rule have led me to something like what tombowings presents, but my approach just kind of falls out that way intuitively - I’m not strictly applying a rule anymore.

It is kind of like how I mark down the passage of time. Figuring out how long it took to open a door. I used to try to be quite exact. Now the difference between move, turn, and hour feels more intuitive to me.

I’ve become a better ref by slowly building up these skills. I will try to apply some of the rules or implicit rule sets, like this one, on morale, as strictly as I can interpret them in a minimalist way. It is hard going at first. I forget a lot. Then I start remembering. Then I notice times I don’t like it’s strict use. Then things start to feel intuitive and I go from there. Time to learn the next rule.

I have done this (not programmatically, I’m just realizing on reflection that this has been my MO) for all sorts of things that folks have told me are “too fiddly to worry about.” Things like light sources, tracking resources and encumbrance, strict time management and track keeping, and this issue, morale.

[retrorob]

I tried different ways:

- "Instability Due to Excess Casualties" from Chainmail (remember also "If the army commander is killed or captured, all units on that side must check morale as if they had taken excess casualties and at a minus 2 from the dice")
- reaction roll from vol. I & III with adjustments (like in Judges Guild "Ready ref sheets")
- borrowed rules from Moldvay's Basic

Now I guess I'm with tetramorph here - more intuitive, less strict. Example: assume that 33 1/3% of orc detachment (let's say, 4 of 12) has been killed, but at the same time the orcs managed to kill 5 of 6 adventurers. So it's 8 versus 1. Should monsters really check morale now? I don't think so.

I roll 2d6, the more the better. Target number varies from 4 to 8. Gnolls have 5, hobgoblins 6, orcs 7, goblins & kobolds 8 and so on.

Good reasons to check morale:
1) loss of the commander
2) special ability (Superheroes, Wizards, Wraiths, Dragons cause the enemy to check morale)
3) excess casualties, but proportionally to the 2nd side losses. As I hate bookkeeping, I make rulings on the spot. Example: 4 adventurers are caught in melee by 6 werewolves. After 3 rounds of hard fighting, one adventurer and 3 werewolves fall. It's a good time to check the latter's morale. Assume ML is 6 (Armored Foot). Roll: 7. Werewolves hold and retaliate with fury. Another 2 of them die - the last one runs away without any roll.

Some enemies never check morale: giants, dragons (including basilisks and cockatrices), rocs (including wyverns and griffons), true trolls, skeletons, zombies, minotaurs, purple worms, heroes (and anti-heroes), berserkers, dervishes.

[tdenmark]

Dec 12, 2020 2:11:36 GMT -6 tetramorph said:

don’t worry about magic in particular. Feels too ubiquitous in the kind of campaigns I’m familiar with to stand out too much.

Not just any magic, but something noticeably intimidating -- like a fireball -- but of course in that case there is likely to be 50% or so casualties anyways.

[Deleted]

1/3 casualties works well enough for me - in a fast and furious melee the 1st casualty could be overlooked by other combatants. Yes it's wargamey, but it doesn't seem to wreck gameplay

[ThrorII]

1st casualty
50% casualties
Loss of Leader

[rustic313]

Dec 10, 2020 23:05:06 GMT -6 Desparil said:

Dec 10, 2020 17:57:12 GMT -6 rustic313 said:

If you wanted to go strictly by-the-book, I would say the most relevant passage is actually this one, in the Man-To-Man section:

Morale: Generally speaking, defenders in a castle need never check morale. In other cases morale is to be checked when 33 1/3% of an army has been killed. Use the standard morale tables, check by type of troop, and allow any bonuses to dice.

Presumably monster in their lairs would be considered the equivalent of castle defenders, whereas wandering monsters would use the one-third rule. As for what morale score to use, the Light Foot category is typically used for war engine crews, peasants, and archers; I would say that even goblins should count as Heavy Foot (and they do attack as Heavy Foot in Chainmail mass combat), and probably anything above 1 HD (hobgoblins and better) should check morale as Armored Foot. 

Excellent point -- going with a baseline assumption of 1/3 would indeed be "btb" and it doesn't require you to keep track of troop types.  

I also use the "defenders in a castle never check" rule, and consider lairs to be castles as well.

While beyond the scope of this specific trigger, I also check morale under other circumstances as well for normals (appearance of a Superhero or Wizard upon the field, highly unnerving events, having to withstand a charge by cavalry or some monster equally ferocious, etc).

Thanks for all the inputs!  Given that nobody feels the need to consider the nuances of light vs. heavy foot I feel better moving forward dispensing with that consideration!