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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 2:36:13 GMT -6
In the end, this is as much opinion as what I posted--you don't know at all what went on behind the scenes at WotC, and I'd say a smart move requires good work. I feel like you're trying to make my statement something other than it was. 5th Edition D&D, and the way it was handled, was a smart business move on WotC's part. Period. Certainly it was hard work that made it happen, and the wisdom to go back to OD&D and see what the roots of D&D were--what made D&D into D&D. I VEHEMENTLY disagree about your statement regarding "Saltmarsh" and "Ravenloft." It's success thus far has been ENTIRELY predicated on Forgotten Realms, not Greyhawk nor Ravenloft. Those two setting books were an aberration that appealed to old school fans, but old school fans have NOT been the success of 5e. In fact, we're not even on their radar. The new generation of gamers are their bread and butter. Unfortunately, their racist and sexist hiring practices and sudden spate of contract violations have seriously damaged their credibility with a lot of their core audience. THIS, in the end, will be what causes Hasbro to break up WotC and absorb the property. Then we're back to "Hasbro has no idea how to handle a tabletop RPG." I stand by my statement, Rafe, and I feel like you cited in on one single word in it to accuse me of a logical fallacy where none exists. Smart move and hard work are in no way mutually exclusive, and 5e DID, in fact, buy D&D time where during the end of 4e that game was in serious trouble. My statement isn't a logical fallacy; it's a prediction of what is going to happen when 5e runs its course, and I think the writing is on the wall. In the end, however, both of us are speculating and we'll have to wait and see what happens. I'm having trouble following your line of argument here, so I'm going to break it down: When is the supposed sale or breaking up of WotC going to happen, then, in your opinion? Because I'm saying, 6e is still going to carry the WotC logo. Are you saying it won't, Sir?  - Let's make a bet: Winner gets to pick the loser's forum avatar for two weeks. Deal? Not trying to troll you with this, mate - just really interested in the outcome. I have been playing indie RPGs almost exclusively for the last decade-or-so, with the biggest influence probably being "Dragon Warriors". I don't really care about modern D&D, any more, which is why I'm not personally attached to the topic. For example, I cite Ravenloft and Saltmarsh not because of any personal bias - I am a Ravenloft guy, but I never even bothered buying that 5e module. I cite them because they apparently outsold all other books in the sector by astronomic margins. "Information", not "opinion". The same goes for my entire take on the sales situation: The business case for a sale cannot convincingly be made, plainly and simply. If "Hasbro really wouldn't "know how to handle tabletops", or if the WotC brass really would be a bunch of nazis (I wouldn't know), then that would be very sad. But if WotC, as projected, is bound to create 0.6 BILLION in revenue for Hasbro, which would mean an increase of 0.15 bio. since 2019, then the cold, hard truth would be that those things don't matter as much as the latest few news circles might seem to suggest. But like the predictions we've shared above, this is something that we should be able to verify quite easily, in due time. |
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 5, 2020 4:09:54 GMT -6
I cite Ravenloft and Saltmarsh not because of any personal bias - I am a Ravenloft guy, but I never even bothered buying that 5e module. I cite them because they apparently outsold all other books in the sector by astronomic margins. "Information", not "opinion". Where do you get these stats from? It appears that Explorer's Guide to Wildemount is the best selling 5e D&D book next to the core books themselves from what I gather. Furthermore sales have overwhelmingly been to players under the age of 30, with 40% of players aged 24 or younger. Around a fifth (19%) of players are aged 30 to 34, the biggest single five-year age bracket for the game. Females are two-fifths (39%) of the overall audience. That is a pretty significant accomplishment for a 45 year old nerdy game. sauce. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 12:50:35 GMT -6
Where do you get these stats from? It appears that Explorer's Guide to Wildemount is the best selling 5e D&D book next to the core books themselves from what I gather.  Aaaaaaaaaaah. Can't find the source for this right now, but I recall that it was some *serious press* economy paper - perhaps the German "Buchmarkt" magazine, but I would have to look that up. I will look that up. - I don't follow gaming industry sources, any more; a few years ago, there was a mild controversy about how some of them got their numbers, so I'm generally careful about that. Yahoo Finance is actually a pretty good source to check how Hasbro and its brand are faring. That's also why the sales story is so weird: The CEO of Hasbro himself names D&D and MtG has two of the company's most important brands in a number of recent interviews. Despite all the minor controversies, the company is taking pride in the progress of those brands Furthermore sales have overwhelmingly been to players under the age of 30, with 40% of players aged 24 or younger. Around a fifth (19%) of players are aged 30 to 34, the biggest single five-year age bracket for the game. Females are two-fifths (39%) of the overall audience. As I said, I'm inclined to take the exact numbers with a grain of salt, but we're certainly not disagreeing on that: D&D is certainly extremely popular, at the moment, and the world market it is now selling to is surely doing a lot of good things for the brand. Personally, especially with the lessons learned from Covid, I expect an even stronger pull towards digital content before we see a new edition of the game. What was reported earlier this year makes more sense in terms of conventional business strategy: The company is already selling a product that consumers are generally happy with, and do continue buying. So, it makes sense to amplify the brand's profile through secondary products - like video games (Baldur's Gate III), streaming projects (the intended 2022 movie), and books (the MW/TH deal, wherever it might still go now). As I mentioned above, what I still haven't seen from Wizbro is a long-term content-related direction as to where to take the brand. This is why I'm paying attention as to what Greenwood and Salvatore might be doing next - especially since the D&D movie seems to be based on the classic TV series, and isn't looking to be the serious "high fantasy" most of us would probably wish for. |
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Post by asaki on Dec 5, 2020 13:56:38 GMT -6
For example, I cite Ravenloft and Saltmarsh not because of any personal bias - I am a Ravenloft guy, but I never even bothered buying that 5e module. I cite them because they apparently outsold all other books in the sector by astronomic margins. "Information", not "opinion". Maybe so, but FR is built into the 5E core books themselves, and both starter boxes, so... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 14:02:15 GMT -6
I believe Hasbro has been very satisfied with the sales for D&D brand merchandise so I can't imagine they'll let it go any time soon. Pretty cut and dry business situation.
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Post by Desparil on Dec 5, 2020 14:02:52 GMT -6
For example, I cite Ravenloft and Saltmarsh not because of any personal bias - I am a Ravenloft guy, but I never even bothered buying that 5e module. I cite them because they apparently outsold all other books in the sector by astronomic margins. "Information", not "opinion". Maybe so, but FR is built into the 5E core books themselves, and both starter boxes, so... There's nothing about FR built into the core three. Even the sample pantheon they give in the DMG is the deities from the 4th Edition "Dawn of War" setting. All the FR-specific information is in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. The starter boxes are set in Faerun, but they're almost completely disconnected from the overall FR world to the point that it's effortless to drop them into any homebrew setting or world. Edit: I just noticed they do list the FR deities in an Appendix of the PHB, but that's just one of several. They give the same information for Greyhawk, Eberron, Dragonlance, non-human deities, Celtic, Greek, Norse, and Egyptian. It's like a CliffsNotes version of Deities & Demigods. Right after that, I see the following appendix gives the "Great Wheel" version of the Outer Planes and brief descriptions of the difference between Outer Planes, Inner Planes, etc. Basically an abridged version of the chapter of the 1E DMG dealing with the planes, and decidedly absent any setting-specific information except for a single paragraph about Sigil and the Outlands (from Planescape) and the Feywild, Shadowfell, and Far Realm (from the 4E default setting). |
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 5, 2020 16:05:27 GMT -6
Maybe so, but FR is built into the 5E core books themselves, and both starter boxes, so... Very loosely and generically. |
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 5, 2020 16:06:00 GMT -6
I believe Hasbro has been very satisfied with the sales for D&D brand merchandise so I can't imagine they'll let it go any time soon. Pretty cut and dry business situation. Buy low, sell high. |
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Post by Desparil on Dec 5, 2020 18:36:00 GMT -6
I believe Hasbro has been very satisfied with the sales for D&D brand merchandise so I can't imagine they'll let it go any time soon. Pretty cut and dry business situation. Buy low, sell high. That's the mantra of day traders. Hasbro is a large-cap multinational corporation, they're in it for the long haul. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2020 21:34:28 GMT -6
Yeah, what Desparil said. By Hextor, stop with this "armchair economist" stuff! If you are convinced you're right, be specific: When and how is the supposed sale of WotC going to happen? Dates, names, circumstances, please. And if it then doesn't happen, own your error. Here's the CEO of Hasbro, Brian Goldner, perhaps the single smartest guy in the entire gaming industry, talking about his company's general outlook in the coming months: www.cnbc.com/video/2020/12/04/hasbro-ceo-brian-goldner-on-the-companys-holiday-sales.htmlHere is Hasbro's actual Q3 earning report for 2020: investor.hasbro.com/static-files/f898e6a4-b898-4ff5-8dfb-a7171374bd14Here are all their quarterly results since 2007: investor.hasbro.com/financial-information/quarterly-resultsShort version is - MtG and adult-oriented brands are not "being pimped for a brand sale". They are selling better because older customers buy more on the internet, and buy more digital products, especially during the worldwide lockdown. --- That's dudes like us, playing MtG Arena, and running D&D on Skype, or with their kids and roommates. And Hasbro is pretty fine with that development: The message couldn't have been clearer if Goldner had worn a shirt saying "YOUR GAMING STORES ARE GONNA DIE TEE-HEE". Now, to put these numbers in perspective for you: "Magic the Gathering" is listed under Franchise Brands. D&D is listed under "Hasbro Gaming". Together, these two subsectors, give or take, have netted Hasbro more than ONE BILLION DOLLARS, this year alone. That is about four times the total annual revenue of Games Workshop. That's about nine times the total annual revenue created by all over-the-counter comic book sales in the US in 2019. That is about fifty times the total annual revenue of Paizo. That is about one thousand times the total annual revenue of Chaosium. So, if you are telling me, or if Scott Thorne of iCv2 is telling me that he can think of Kobold Press being interested in buying WotC, I'm inclined not to take that idea all too seriously. This also goes into the direction of "Hasbro doesn't get tabletop". For someone who's "not getting tabletop", they are making a ton of money compared to the competition who supposedly "gets it". And for the upteenth year in a row. Maybe Erik Mona is playing 4-D chess, here. Or, maybe, WotC is a d**n successful enterprise. Now, could there theoretically be some kind of "supermerger" or jumbo merger? - Sure it could. It's just that there is no indicator for that, at all. Thorne references PAI Partners, the investor who bought Asmodee, a few years ago. And, lo and behold, Asmodee is now essentially copying WotC's known long-term strategy, just less successfully, and on a smaller level: venturebeat.com/2017/10/24/asmodee-partners-with-fantasy-flight-for-new-digital-board-game-studio/WotC is going nowhere. In fact, after looking at all this stuff, I think they might make a move, and buy one of their smaller competitors, some time soon. Them eventually buying Paizo makes a lot of sense, for example, and if they keep making profits of this kind, they'll create unplanned revenue that then could be used for such a strategic expansion. |
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 6, 2020 4:39:19 GMT -6
Yeah, what Desparil said. By Hextor, stop with this "armchair economist" stuff! If you are convinced you're right, be specific: When and how is the supposed sale of WotC going to happen? Dates, names, circumstances, please. And if it then doesn't happen, own your error. Who are you talking to? I simply asked a question to the OD&D Discussion. I'm not convinced of anything other than WotC has made some strange decisions of late. I have no error to own in this case. Why are you so spicy? |
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Post by thegreyelf on Dec 6, 2020 11:03:05 GMT -6
I'm having trouble following your line of argument here, so I'm going to break it down: When is the supposed sale or breaking up of WotC going to happen, then, in your opinion? Because I'm saying, 6e is still going to carry the WotC logo. Are you saying it won't, Sir? - Let's make a bet: Winner gets to pick the loser's forum avatar for two weeks. Deal? I am, in fact, saying that 6e MAY NOT carry the WotC logo, and it's possible we may not even SEE a 6e, or if we do, it may be the last under the Hasbro banner for a long time, as since Hasbro doesn't know how to manage a tabletop RPG, it will tank. Also, I never said Hasbro is looking to sell WotC. I said, in fact, that the brand is seen as far too valuable for them to sell it. WotC, on the other hand, is becoming a black eye for Hasbro due to the way they conduct themselves. As such, they're likely to break up the company and move everything under their own banner. WotC will go away. D&D will become a Hasbro product. D&D as an RPG will tank because Hasbro doesn't know how to handle the unique marketing and economics required for a tabletop RPG and they will try to treat it like a board game or video game. Then they'll move the brand to toys, board games, possibly video games, and fiction where it will languish for who knows how long before they eventually divest themselves of the property for an exorbitant fee, which only someone like Modiphius can afford to pay. And nope, I'm not a betting man. I'm making a prediction, not a bet. And once again, we can all go around about this over and over and over...in the end, every last one of us is speculating so we'll have to see what happens. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 11:40:22 GMT -6
Yeah, what Desparil said. By Hextor, stop with this "armchair economist" stuff! If you are convinced you're right, be specific: When and how is the supposed sale of WotC going to happen? Dates, names, circumstances, please. And if it then doesn't happen, own your error. Who are you talking to? I simply asked a question to the OD&D Discussion. I'm not convinced of anything other than WotC has made some strange decisions of late. I have no error to own in this case. Why are you so spicy? Hehe, this is why I apologized going into this one.
First, on a personal level, I dislike disinformation, and the notorious spreading of "fake news". And that's what this whole discussion is about: Made-up stuff. A roll on the rumor table. It's okay to contextualize and elaborate this, to a point, but it's not okay to keep talking about this stuff as if it was more than some random guy's unsubstantiated opinion.
As your local sheriff, I furthermore dislike that discussions like this one tend to create false premises that outlive the respective specific "fake news": WotC is not, in any way, in a "crisis". Numbers are up and breaking records, and apart from some ever-angry twittering here and there, consumers of their products and customers of their company are generally pretty happy with what they are getting for their money. That things could be different, and perhaps could be better? - Sure. But as long as WotC is making more money with MtG than the world's three biggest porn sites combined, as long as people are literally valuing their collectible card games higher than they are valuing, well, whatever it is you find on porn sites, let's perhaps all agree that the brand isn't necessarily undergoing an existential moment of redirection.
Like, to take this into less "spicy" territories, as you say: I would also simply be asking a question if I asked whether the Queen of England could be the vampire that killed Abraham Lincoln. I could also endlessly relativize my question and your answers to this by saying that the Queen of England exists, and that Abraham Lincoln existed, and that it's likely things happened like this because they are the same age. But at the end of the day, I would still DEAD ON!!! LET'S GET THE SILVER AXE ABE!!! wrong, as my doctors keep telling me.
Again, bottom line: No fake news on OD&D'74, please. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 11:56:45 GMT -6
...as since Hasbro doesn't know how to manage a tabletop RPG, it will tank. ...as an RPG will tank because Hasbro doesn't know how to handle the unique marketing and economics required for a tabletop RPG and they will try to treat it like a board game or video game. Again, and I'm being serious here, what exactly is driving you to this conclusion? Hasbro is the uncontested market leader for an RPG brand, at the moment, including an incredibly large brand of secondary products that feature such things as this year's most successful video game. Maybe Hasbro is missing out on options for even bigger growth (like with the MW/TH debacle), but the things they are doing are working pretty d**n great. 600 million dollars great, to be specific. Where are they doing things that actively inhibit or diminish the value of their existing products, or of their general customer experience? How is Hasbro's supposed lack of competence hurting D&D as a brand, other than that they are making decisions that people tend to negatively comment on? - Like, how is Hasbro's supposed lack of skill measurable, quantifiable, or otherwise positively verifiable. - I'm not mocking you, by the way, I find this topic super-interesting. |
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Post by jeffb on Dec 6, 2020 12:21:56 GMT -6
LOL..
Says the Sheriff telling us to visit Yahoo News ?
Geeze Rafe, Sheriff or not, you have no more insight into the inner workings of WOTC/Hasbro than any of us. Why do you feel the need to officially shut members down in this thread?
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Post by thegreyelf on Dec 6, 2020 12:41:59 GMT -6
...as since Hasbro doesn't know how to manage a tabletop RPG, it will tank. ...as an RPG will tank because Hasbro doesn't know how to handle the unique marketing and economics required for a tabletop RPG and they will try to treat it like a board game or video game. Again, and I'm being serious here, what exactly is driving you to this conclusion? Hasbro is the uncontested market leader for an RPG brand, at the moment, including an incredibly large brand of secondary products that feature such things as this year's most successful video game. Maybe Hasbro is missing out on options for even bigger growth (like with the MW/TH debacle), but the things they are doing are working pretty d**n great. 600 million dollars great, to be specific. Where are they doing things that actively inhibit or diminish the value of their existing products, or of their general customer experience? How is Hasbro's supposed lack of competence hurting D&D as a brand, other than that they are making decisions that people tend to negatively comment on? - Like, how is Hasbro's supposed lack of skill measurable, quantifiable, or otherwise positively verifiable. - I'm not mocking you, by the way, I find this topic super-interesting. No, WIZARDS OF THE COAST is the uncontested market leader for an RPG brand, at the moment, including an incredibly large brand of secondary products....etc. But they weren't before 5e. 4e was tanking so badly that WotC had fallen FAR behind Pathfinder as the industry leader, and there were whispers that they may have fallen as far as third, but there was no direct evidence of that. As I said, dumping 4e and approaching 5e as they did was a smart move that bought them time. It was also, incidentally, MANDATED by Hasbro that they do it or else WotC was going away at the end of the 4e era. And proof of Hasbro's own lack of ability to manage RPGs was that before that, the company MANDATED that WotC create 4e, "To get rid of that OGL thing where you gave away our game, and while you're at it, make it look like that World of Warcraft thing all the kids are doing nowadays." When 4e tanked, Hasbro came back to WotC and said, "you did this. Fix it or you're done." I know this from direct conversations with WotC staffers during the 5e playtest period. You can believe that or not as you wish. WIZARDS OF THE COAST is OWNED by Hasbro, but IS NOT HASBRO. They have their own marketing and business departments, which SPECIALIZE in this sort of game. HASBRO has NEVER owned or marketed an RPG. The logical fallacy that YOU are committing, is assuming that Hasbro is directly involved in the handling, production, or marketing of D&D, beyond funneling money to WotC. Being owned by Hasbro, however, means that what they do reflects upon the parent company. And WotC's actions and business practices have been making them a public black eye for a long time now. And honestly, I can't be arsed to go dig up links for ongoing practices that have been broad public knowledge for a long time at this point. I know you're not trolling; I'm not taking it that way!  But in the end, I very clearly outlined exactly why I feel the way I do and why I see the writing on the wall in my original post here, as well as why it wouldn't be a bad thing for the industry. When you add to it the CONTINUAL rounds of interior reorganization and CONSTANT layoffs, as well as the new spate of contract violation lawsuits, them very publicly being called out on racist and sexist hiring and operations internally, and their blatant virtue signalling efforts to affect damage control, it's all right there. You can cite all the flat Hasbro numbers you like but you're willfully ignoring the fact that even among a big corporation, simple numbers that are a quarter old and don't account for basic public relations moving forward don't tell even a fraction of the story. It's coming. It might not be this year or even next year. But you can take it to the bank that it's coming. WotC is too much of a headache for Hasbro to deal with and eventually, they're going to take control, and WotC will cease to exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 12:56:06 GMT -6
LOL.. Says the Sheriff telling us to visit Yahoo News ? Geeze Rafe, Sheriff or not, you have no more insight into the inner workings of WOTC/Hasbro than any of us. Why do you feel the need to officially shut members down in this thread? Hi, Jeff!
Since this is the third time in... Some time... That you have expressed discontent about the way our team runs this forum, understand that you're free to leave and open your own forum somewhere else if you feel like you're being emotionally mistreated by our mod squad. Our team hopes that you realize that: You are free to leave, at any time, and for whatever reason you want. Now, I'd prefer if you sat down, drank a chamomile tea, and learned to chill the f**k out, but if you feel like you are just hurting too much from the terrible disrespect and bullying you're receiving here on a regular base - take these broken wings, my boy, and learn to fly again.
As to me "shutting people down", I don't think I'm doing that, at all, by not unconditionally embracing their line of argumentation. I would be very disappointed if the posters in this thread would take a factual diagreement as a personal judgment of any kind, and I look forward to exchange more ideas with them as we dig further into the issue, even if things get a bit "spicy" along the way. I trust that we're gathering on this cozy spot of the internet to actually discuss ideas, not just to exchange statements. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 14:27:55 GMT -6
And proof of Hasbro's own lack of ability to manage RPGs was that before that, the company MANDATED that WotC create 4e, "To get rid of that OGL thing where you gave away our game, and while you're at it, make it look like that World of Warcraft thing all the kids are doing nowadays." When 4e tanked, Hasbro came back to WotC and said, "you did this. Fix it or you're done." I know this from direct conversations with WotC staffers during the 5e playtest period. You can believe that or not as you wish. I'm happy to believe you, no worries. Trick is, that information has a different quality than the iCv2 article that opened this discussion. - FWIW, I checked the actual numbers of those years yesterday, as well; part of it is accessible through the above link. Bottom line is, 4e must have had about ZERO sales in the last two years of its existence. It's absurd, really. D&D, in general, makes about 25% of what MtG is making, give or take. Well, between 2010 and 2013, WotC cumulatively lost about that amount of their annual revenue. 25%. I don't think this is necessarily relevant. Sure, WotC is a different local and physical entity, but, like any company today, it's mainly - computers, and hard drives. Put them in a different office, and Hasbro has a new section that specializes on RPGs.  As to Hasbro not being involved, well, they give out the goals that WotC is supposed to accomplish. That means there are people at Hasbro that are thinking about those goals before they hand them out. Even if it should really only boil down to indirect leadership, it's still very, very much a form of leadership. I very clearly outlined exactly why I feel the way I do and why I see the writing on the wall in my original post here, as well as why it wouldn't be a bad thing for the industry. When you add to it the CONTINUAL rounds of interior reorganization and CONSTANT layoffs, as well as the new spate of contract violation lawsuits, them very publicly being called out on racist and sexist hiring and operations internally, and their blatant virtue signalling efforts to affect damage control, it's all right there. You can cite all the flat Hasbro numbers you like but you're willfully ignoring the fact that even among a big corporation, simple numbers that are a quarter old and don't account for basic public relations moving forward don't tell even a fraction of the story. The HR carousel is the chief reason why I think WotC, the company, is going to go away, eventually, or at least that Hasbro has not yet decided what to do. - I'm not "willfully ignoring" anything, I just don't think that the Twitter bubble is necessarily affecting the sales, if only because they are not "unique" - every company in the gaming business has had to live with similar accusations and scandals. One might even make the case that Wizbro is handling things better than their market competitors. It's coming. It might not be this year or even next year. But you can take it to the bank that it's coming. WotC is too much of a headache for Hasbro to deal with and eventually, they're going to take control, and WotC will cease to exist. Cool. I think we agree that WotC is probably not going to outlast the decade as a company; however, mind you that the original premise was some kind of sales operation. I don't see that second option happening, at all. I think, Hasbro, as a company, is mostly interested in eliminating third-party retailers, and make direct sales to their customers. Whether D&D and MtG continue to be with the company, or, rather, whether they continue to be active franchises, on the long run, is likely going to be determined by how they fit with that business model. And given that both D&D and MtG have pretty great online retail options already, I think they are going to stay with us - and with Hasbro - for a good while longer. |
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Post by jeffb on Dec 6, 2020 14:54:32 GMT -6
LOL.. Says the Sheriff telling us to visit Yahoo News ? Geeze Rafe, Sheriff or not, you have no more insight into the inner workings of WOTC/Hasbro than any of us. Why do you feel the need to officially shut members down in this thread? Hi, Jeff!
Since this is the third time in... Some time... That you have expressed discontent about the way our team runs this forum, understand that you're free to leave and open your own forum somewhere else if you feel like you're being emotionally mistreated by our mod squad.
Nice Hyperbole. I don't lose any sleep over your attitude, believe me.  I also don't have a prob with any of the other mods, or their style, though I may not agree with all their decisions (like when they don't follow their own rules about "ground to tread" or subjects to avoid). But hey we are all Human, nobody agrees with everyone. In this case, you are out of line. Your opinion holds no more weight than others, and have pulled out the "mod card" when people disagreed with your opinion on the subject at hand (and now the poor way you are representing yourself in this thread ). Not cool. I'd say you need to chill out (and I'm not the only member to make the same observation). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 15:06:05 GMT -6
Nah. That's plainly not true. Reread the thread if you're confused.
And do limit your future comments in this thread on actual input on the issue. - And THAT is me "pulling the mod card" because your whole dying swan act annoys me.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 6, 2020 15:42:31 GMT -6
Unlocked again. Please play nice.
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Post by Chainsaw on Dec 12, 2020 8:05:35 GMT -6
Most companies, especially large, publicly traded ones, periodically evaluate whether it makes sense to sell segments, divisions, brands, etc. Sometimes their internal corporate development team recommends it. Sometimes M&A bankers pitch it. Sometimes other companies make an offer. Management and the board assess whether the action/pricing makes sense in the context of their business strategy and capital deployment strategy and go from there. Nothing's sacred. It's all about best use of capital. Many times they get very, very close behind closed doors, which leaks out in various ways, but then negotiations fall apart for some reason. So, who knows. They may/may not be preparing and it may/may not sell.
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Post by Finarvyn on Dec 12, 2020 8:53:21 GMT -6
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Post by Chainsaw on Dec 12, 2020 9:11:20 GMT -6
Dunno if it is at all relevant, but other message boards seem to have similar threads so it's not just an ODD74 thing. Agreed. Apologies if my post seemed dismissive, was not my intent. |
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Post by tdenmark on Dec 12, 2020 11:18:01 GMT -6
Unlocked again. Please play nice. Thanks. My intent was not to "spread fake news", but to stir an interesting discussion. The article linked to may not have been the best, but it did express some ideas I had been thinking about lately in regards to WotC's behavior, as well as having been through the corporate grindstone myself I know how cut throat it all can be. It is never about what is best for the product or the customers. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 0:32:37 GMT -6
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Post by tdenmark on Mar 19, 2021 1:35:16 GMT -6
Its whatever is best for the shareholders... It is never about what is best for the product or the customers.
Can they make a Dragonlance movie/streaming series now?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 2:44:08 GMT -6
Its whatever is best for the shareholders... It is never about what is best for the product or the customers.How is this bad for the product or for the customers, in your opinion? Can they make a Dragonlance movie/streaming series now? My prediction is all in this thread, mate: We have not heard from R. A. Salvatore and Ed Greenwood in a while. (As far as I would know, at least.) Wouldn't be too surprised if we heard from them again, within this bigger context. Dragonlance, more difficult, especially after the negative press last year. My idea is, the new novels are going to be a test balloon as to the brand's marketability. The old novels being adapted by the book, not going to happen. A completely new series, or a remake, though, maybe in the cards if the upcoming novel series establishes rapport with the fans. Personally, I think we're going to see a lot of Drizz't and Strahd. I also think we're going to see Greyhawk or even Blackmoor before we see Dragonlance. From a business perspective, I highly doubt that we're going to see any directly Gygax-related IP any time soon, though: Noone is going down the dungeons of Castle Xanax again in Gail's lifetime. - I'll pay a bit of attention to what Erik Mona, Monte Cook, and Bruce Cordell will be doing next, though. They all are household names in the industry, and all of them have earned their spurs working on Greyhawk. No way "White Plum Mountain" or "The Tomb of Horrors" or other classics are going to be adapted without these guys being involved. Them changing jobs, or taking a break from their own projects for a while will be the surest sign that something is in the works for 2024/2025. |
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Post by Desparil on Mar 19, 2021 7:46:00 GMT -6
Its whatever is best for the shareholders... It is never about what is best for the product or the customers.How is this bad for the product or for the customers, in your opinion? Can they make a Dragonlance movie/streaming series now? My prediction is all in this thread, mate: We have not heard from R. A. Salvatore and Ed Greenwood in a while. (As far as I would know, at least.) Wouldn't be too surprised if we heard from them again, within this bigger context. Salvatore just completed both a Drizzt trilogy and a trilogy set in his own DemonWars universe, with each trilogy seeing a book release in 2018, 2019, and 2020. He's already confirmed at least one more trilogy in each series. www.reddit.com/r/Drizzt/comments/jfffu5/ra_salvatore_confirms_at_least_three_new_drizzt/ |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 22:32:39 GMT -6
Thank you for the information. It's going to be interesting to see how they manage this: Retiring Drizz't as a character would be like killing Luke Skywalker - fans might "retire with him", as well. Yet, the character, for all intends and purposes, seems to be close to "done", almost "overdone". People have expected him have his swan song for a good while, from what I understand. (Never been a Realmer, only know Drizz't from the German radio dramas - but I liked the "Demon Wars" books, back in the day, and Salvatore is pretty great in the usual interviews you find on Youtube.) So, killing the character when the brand is about to go big again, difficult to imagine. However, it's also difficult to imagine that he'll be kept around for another *couple of* storycircles. - An interesting situation, storyteller-wise. I'm really interested in seeing what might happen. The classic approach to this would be to turn Drizz't into some sort of Obi-Wan character who introduces a new generation of heroes to the audience. ...But whether that would work with Drizz't, whether the fans would be okay with that, in my mind is highly doubtful. Just doesn't seem like the proper character to do that, and, notably, wider reforms to FR have never met with the approval of the audience so far. So, it's certainly going to be an interesting detail to follow, even from the sidelines. Personally, I just hope, if they touch Ravenloft, that they make it appropriately creepy. Of the current WotC line-up, given that we can be sure that classic by-the-book adaptations are pretty much off the table in the "age of overpoliticization of creative content", I really just want to see Eberron on the big screen. That one has a lot of untapped potential as a setting; it might simply be fun to see what a few good and motivated writers might do with it. Give this to Laeta Kalogridis or the like, and you're going to see fantasy fireworks of genre-bending awesomeness. |
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- Let's make a bet: Winner gets to pick the loser's forum avatar for two weeks. Deal? 
Aaaaaaaaaaah. Can't find the source for this right now, but I recall that it was some *serious press* economy paper - perhaps the German "Buchmarkt" magazine, but I would have to look that up. I will look that up. - I don't follow gaming industry sources, any more; a few years ago, there was a mild controversy about how some of them got their numbers, so I'm generally careful about that.
But in the end, I very clearly outlined exactly why I feel the way I do and why I see the writing on the wall in my original post here, as well as why it wouldn't be a bad thing for the industry. When you add to it the CONTINUAL rounds of interior reorganization and CONSTANT layoffs, as well as the new spate of contract violation lawsuits, them very publicly being called out on racist and sexist hiring and operations internally, and their blatant virtue signalling efforts to affect damage control, it's all right there. You can cite all the flat Hasbro numbers you like but you're willfully ignoring the fact that even among a big corporation, simple numbers that are a quarter old and don't account for basic public relations moving forward don't tell even a fraction of the story. 
As to Hasbro not being involved, well, they give out the goals that WotC is supposed to accomplish. That means there are people at Hasbro that are thinking about those goals before they hand them out. Even if it should really only boil down to indirect leadership, it's still very, very much a form of leadership.
