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Post by jeffb on Sept 18, 2020 7:14:25 GMT -6
Goodman is doing another oversize deluxe hardcover for all of Jaquays early JG output Too rich for my blood and no PDF option like the last JG hardcover, but I'm sure some here will be interested. I'm not sure if I saw it, but they really need to put in Hellpits of Nightfang too. kck.st/2ZNfJIi |
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Post by grodog on Sept 18, 2020 8:34:07 GMT -6
tacojohn4547 has been working on this one for awhile---it will be a great book!  Allan.
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Post by jeffb on Sept 18, 2020 9:29:42 GMT -6
No doubt it will be filled with great content but like the last one I won't be buying it, though I'd like to. For whatever reason Joe Goodman won't do PDFs with this JG stuff (he never gave me an actual reaosn when I inquired with him directly on the last book- he just stumbled around the question). PDF is my only option for 2 reasons
1) Cost.
2) Practical use- The format is a big issue. My game/bookshelf can't handle their crazy oversize books- my GG Met Alpha book/box has been sitting in a cardboard box in the downstairs basement separate from all my other gaming books/boxed sets for years because of this. And more importantly- it is so big and unwieldy its a complete PITA at the table. For most big unwieldy hardcovers, I usually just print out the pages I would need from the PDF to use at the table.
I guess Joe likes coffee table books :shrug:
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Post by captainjapan on Sept 18, 2020 10:42:35 GMT -6
Ahh, to be rich. Still, those Dungeoneer dungeons were pretty cool. Jim Ward did a pharoah's tomb in one of them. I bought the collected Dungeoneer(JG?), once upon a time.
Now, if Goodman could reproduced Tracy Hickman's super rare pre-TSR modules,then I will open my wallet. But, yeah, not a coffee table book. I still play my stuff.
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Post by tacojohn4547 on Sept 18, 2020 14:23:07 GMT -6
tacojohn4547 has been working on this one for awhile---it will be a great book! Allan. Thanks for the plug, Allan! I hadn’t made it over here to Marv’s boards yet... |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Sept 18, 2020 21:19:11 GMT -6
I too would love to buy a PDF, but have little room for a massive tome on my bookshelf or gaming table. I'm sure the giant hardbacks will look great on coffee tables, but it doesn't seem a practical format for gaming use.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 10:29:25 GMT -6
I don't understand the purpose of these oversized books. They're too big to be usable at table, and not terribly convenient for a bookshelf. They seem like they must be collector's items (which doesn't do anything for me). Is that what they are?
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Post by grodog on Sept 19, 2020 11:36:56 GMT -6
IIRC the overlarge format is required to reprint the JGJ issues at full size, since those were newsprint-sized sheets.
Allan.
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Post by tacojohn4547 on Sept 19, 2020 17:15:32 GMT -6
IIRC the overlarge format is required to reprint the JGJ issues at full size, since those were newsprint-sized sheets. Allan. Grodog is spot on here. The original JG Journals were printed on newsprint that folder to 11”x17”. Goodman Games has opted reproduce those at full size in these collector archive tomes . Given their size, table use isn’t really what’s intended. Goodman is trying to preserve a little of the hobby before the original source items become unrecoverable. |
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Post by jeffb on Sept 19, 2020 18:48:02 GMT -6
This current volume states it mostly modules, art pieces and the original dungeoneer zines though- none of that was oversized. Only two journal issues.
And Joe did the same thing for Met Alpha. That product did not originally come in a large size format.
These are items gamers want to experience AND use, not just have sitting on a shelf for "archival" purposes.
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Post by DungeonDevil on Sept 19, 2020 22:23:58 GMT -6
Their pledge architecture is screwy: pledges jump from $1 to $125!!! WTF?
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Post by cadriel on Sept 20, 2020 4:45:42 GMT -6
Goodman's business model has always been about nostalgia and deluxe products for collectors, with actual game usage an afterthought. I stopped buying his products after Into the Borderlands. I love Jaquays and her early work but I have copies and feel no need to get a new hardcover, especially at the steep price they are asking.
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Post by jeffb on Sept 20, 2020 7:04:17 GMT -6
Goodman's business model has always been about nostalgia and deluxe products for collectors, with actual game usage an afterthought. I stopped buying his products after Into the Borderlands. I love Jaquays and her early work but I have copies and feel no need to get a new hardcover, especially at the steep price they are asking. At least with the OAR series they make them usable game products for the original editions and 5E, as well as delving into the history and origins of the materials (which I love!) . Not to mention they are an appropriate amount of "bulk" for table use, too. This is how I wish the JG, Jaquays, and MetAlpha projects had been handled. |
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Post by flailsnail75 on Sept 20, 2020 11:53:48 GMT -6
I wish this was something that I could actually use, I’d really love to have all of these in a pdf and would gladly pay for it. Plus I’m pretty sure I have almost every thing that Jaquays has in pdf form so that’s $125 I can waste on other stuff I don’t need.
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Post by asaki on Sept 20, 2020 15:44:19 GMT -6
Their pledge architecture is screwy: pledges jump from $1 to $125!!! WTF? That's how most Kickstarters work: some people can't afford the higher tier items, but they still want to donate to the cause, so they chip in $5 or $10.
Or it might also be so you can pay on the tier you want, and still donate extra to the cause? I'm not sure about that one.
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Post by tacojohn4547 on Sept 25, 2020 5:55:20 GMT -6
Great news in the latest update: the 8.5” x 11” reprint adventures, the ‘table use reprints’, are being made available in this Kickstarter as add-ons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 8:51:19 GMT -6
Goodman's business model has always been about nostalgia and deluxe products for collectors, with actual game usage an afterthought. I stopped buying his products after Into the Borderlands. I love Jaquays and her early work but I have copies and feel no need to get a new hardcover, especially at the steep price they are asking. That's kinda how I feel about DCC, too. A buddy of mine ran me through about ten sessions of that a couple years ago. I had fun playing as a Magic-User who gradually morphed into a eunuch frog demon spawn, but every time I saw the book come out my thought was "That think is honking huge. I'd never want to use that at the table to run a game. I wouldn't even wanna hold it to read it for fun." |
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Post by DungeonDevil on Sept 27, 2020 15:52:01 GMT -6
Goodman's business model has always been about nostalgia and deluxe products for collectors, with actual game usage an afterthought. I stopped buying his products after Into the Borderlands. I love Jaquays and her early work but I have copies and feel no need to get a new hardcover, especially at the steep price they are asking. That's kinda how I feel about DCC, too. A buddy of mine ran me through about ten sessions of that a couple years ago. I had fun playing as a Magic-User who gradually morphed into a eunuch frog demon spawn, but every time I saw the book come out my thought was "That think is honking huge. I'd never want to use that at the table to run a game. I wouldn't even wanna hold it to read it for fun." These kinds of products are really meant -- not for practical use -- but to be locked up in a time-capsule or in a wealthy collector's vault for archaeologists to unearth in several thousand years from now. |
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Post by boggit on Oct 5, 2020 2:17:49 GMT -6
2) Practical use- The format is a big issue. My game/bookshelf can't handle their crazy oversize books- my GG Met Alpha book/box has been sitting in a cardboard box in the downstairs basement separate from all my other gaming books/boxed sets for years because of this. And more importantly- it is so big and unwieldy its a complete PITA at the table. For most big unwieldy hardcovers, I usually just print out the pages I would need from the PDF to use at the table. Hear, hear! Add to that the cumbersome and ugly single-column format of Judges Guild stuff. With a pdf, at least I can copy and paste the text into Word and make it double column myself. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 5, 2020 3:16:50 GMT -6
Given their size, table use isn’t really what’s intended. Goodman is trying to preserve a little of the hobby before the original source items become unrecoverable. I helped Joe lay one of these books out, and I can tell you they are a nightmare to work on. These things are true labors of love with the intent of creating archival books on high quality acid-free paper so they will last many more years. He is a fan after all and publishes them to add to his own collection as well. They are also meant to be enticing nostalgia inducing books that appeal to an audience that wants to pay the premium price for them. Goodman Games is a business after all. I don't begrudge that, they deliver on their promise.  Here I am with Joe and the printer proof of the Judges Guild Deluxe Edition interior. It was a monster of a book. |
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Post by jeffb on Oct 5, 2020 5:13:42 GMT -6
Nobody is a bigger supporter of Capitalism than I. I would never begrudge GG (or anyone else) for making money and being a business. They can do what they want and is best for them. I've supported them since day 1. DCC modules for 3.x. I think I was the ONLY person who enjoyed their 4E DCC modules of which I have the majority published (And I still think is their most creative D&D work). I've bought into DCC RPG, supported their first 5E Kickstarter, as well as Met Alpha.
My beef is all about (complete lack of) practicality.
I'm guessing most people would rather be able to use these at their table/in a game session, instead of sitting by the fireplace with a glass of X and a cigar waxing nostalgic for the old days.
There's no reason it can't be both. In particular this volume- as the majority of original materials were in normal 8x11 format, not the newsletter format.
Where are my slippers, Dear? And another Merlot please, I'm just about to get into reading the Caverns of Thracia. Oh I killed many PCs back in the day with this one... :chuckle:
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 5, 2020 14:50:24 GMT -6
I think I was the ONLY person who enjoyed their 4E DCC modules of which I have the majority published (And I still think is their most creative D&D work). They worked really hard on those modules and poured a ton of creativity into them. 4e sales were terrible and really hurt Goodman Games, but it made them focus on the DCC RPG a lot more so it worked out in the long run. |
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Post by jeffb on Oct 6, 2020 7:49:44 GMT -6
I think I was the ONLY person who enjoyed their 4E DCC modules of which I have the majority published (And I still think is their most creative D&D work). They worked really hard on those modules and poured a ton of creativity into them. 4e sales were terrible and really hurt Goodman Games, but it made them focus on the DCC RPG a lot more so it worked out in the long run. Conversely, I have given up on DCCRPG, and The 4E modules are my favorite products from them, really. We had a ton of fun with those. In particular the Punjar series and Isle of the Sea Drake. DCCRPG got old real quick for me and my tastes. Seems to be a lifestyle choice these days. Cultish/Clique-ish. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 8:10:14 GMT -6
DCCRPG got old real quick for me and my tastes. Seems to be a lifestyle choice these days. Cultish/Clique-ish. Come on, Jeff, be a bit more chill. I've been running DCCC RPG as my "main" system since it came out in 2012. (?) No cultish/cliquish thing going on at my gaming table... Though my players have indeed repeatedly used vile black magic. Not entirely a tap on the nose - I wonder what you're talking about, really. What "cultish, clique-ish" thing is going on? DCCC RPG has always seemed to me like that "buy once, use forever" kind of product that you don't really need to talk about much --- which I always saw as a problem for the brand because it would surely limit sales on the long term. Myself, I've expanded my own game with material from the old Dragon Warriors RPG (mostly monsters and scenarios), and with material from "Beyond The Wall", and if I can complain about anything, then that DCCC RPG is, at this point, indistinguishable from BFRPG/Mentzer, at least at my gaming table. But "cultish"? Where?! Of course, there are "stans" of just about everything, these days, but DCCC RPG, vanilla and even slightly bland as it is, seems hard to qualify for the likes of ardent internet debates that people like to have about more complex systems. |
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Post by jeffb on Oct 6, 2020 8:49:36 GMT -6
DCCRPG got old real quick for me and my tastes. Seems to be a lifestyle choice these days. Cultish/Clique-ish. Come on, Jeff, be a bit more chill. I've been running DCCC RPG as my "main" system since it came out in 2012. (?) No cultish/cliquish thing going on at my gaming table... ] Sorry,should be more specific. I mean the DCCRPG online community, not your table at home. |
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Post by peelseel2 on Oct 6, 2020 12:49:43 GMT -6
Goodman Games lost me with the DCC RPG. I bought the book and some modules. Ran it. The funnel is extremely fun. Just not my cup of tea for a campaign.
I collected all, and ran a number of, the 3.x DCC, and 4E DCC. Loved those.
I have no interest in the Collectable Wilderlands books.
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 6, 2020 13:23:26 GMT -6
Goodman Games lost me with the DCC RPG. I bought the book and some modules. Ran it. The funnel is extremely fun. Just not my cup of tea for a campaign. I feel like the game is optimized for play at conventions. A lot of fun in small doses, not so much for longer games. |
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bobjester0e
Level 4 Theurgist
DDO, DCC, or more Lost City map work? Oh, the hardship of making adult decisions! ;)
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Post by bobjester0e on Oct 17, 2020 12:08:03 GMT -6
I want to buy more Goodman Games products, but unfortunately, they cannot sell it to me.
I love the concept of DCCRPG, but I can't get the other players onboard with actually playing it, and the 0-level funnel makes the game hard to accept for half of them, while the whole 'corruption magic' concept alienates the other half.
So DCCRPG will sit on my shelf with all the other games my group doesn't want to play (which is usually anything that isn't 5e or PF).
Having played Into the Borderlands at the table, I constantly broke out my TSR era copies of B1 & B2 to actually play.
The OAR book is far too hefty & unwieldy to use at the table, and I don't like my shelves being weighted down with just another game I'm not going to get to play.
I had hopes of playing OAR Isle of Dread, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, and The Lost City, but circumstances what they are, I won't be investing in any more Goodman Games until I see some applicability, despite the content.
I have some early Dungeoneer magazines, and, while interesting to me from an historical point of view, I cannot see using these at the table either, so I'll regretfully pass on the Jaquays Collection. For now.
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