Different ways of casting spells in 3LBB

[linebeck]

For reference, bellow is a compilation of the various ways to cast spells as set forth in the original three books. These are all direct quotes.

REMEMBERED SPELLS:

The number in each column opposite each applicable character indicates the number of spells of each level that can be used (remembered during any single adventure) by that character.


A spell used once may not be reused in the same day.

SCROLLS:

All Scrolls are spells for Magic-Users.


Regardless of the level of the spell they can be used by any Magic-User capable of reading them.


Read Magic

The means by which the incantations on an item or scroll are read.

Without such a spell or similar device magic is unintelligible to even a Magic-User.

The spell is of short duration (one or two readings being the usual limit).


Scroll spells are of the 6th level unless necessarily higher, in which case they are of the minimum level necessary to generate such a spell.


The scroll spell is usable one time only!


After reading a spell from a scroll the writing disappears.


Wizards and above may manufacture scrolls for their own use (or for sale).

This is a matter of time and investment.


Cost is 100 Gold Pieces/Spell/Spell Level/Week (a 5th-level spell would require 500 GP and 5 weeks).

WANDS AND STAVES:

All wands usable by Magic-Users only.


Wands are considered as being endowed with projectiles (or rays) of the 6th level (six dice of damage).


Assume Wands to have 100 charges.


Staves have 8th level effect.


Staves have 200 charges.


Certain Wands and Staves would not be subject to the above:


Metal Detection


Enemy Detection


Secret Doors & Traps Detection


Healing
(can be employed to numerous persons during a day, but only once per day to any one person).


Snake Staff


Staff of Striking

RING OF SPELL STORING:

A ring containing from 1–6 spells of from the 1st through the 6th levels.


Upon placing it on a finger and thinking of spells, the wearer will know telepathically what spells are housed within the ring.


This ring is usable by any type of character.


Spells within it are restorable only by a Magic-User or a Cleric.


There is a 20% chance the ring has Clerical spells.


If it is Clerical, there is a 50% chance the spells therein are Chaotic in nature.

POTIONS:

All potions come in a quantity sufficient to perform whatever their end is, although a small sample can be taken without affecting the whole.


For those with limited effect the time will be six turns plus the number of pips rolled on a six-sided die.

[waysoftheearth]

Don't forget magic swords

[gemini476]

While "All scrolls are spells for Magic-Users", note that in later printings the actual M&T P.24 SCROLLS table added the footnote "There is a 25% chance that any scroll of spells found will contain those usable by clerics."

Can a scroll of Cure Light Wounds be used by a Cleric, or must it still be used by Magic-Users? Who knows. It's clearly a hasty addition.

[waysoftheearth]

And... (related)... can a magic sword with the power to Read Magic cast a spell from a scroll? If not, then what is the purpose of this magic sword power?

[linebeck]

Sept 16, 2020 22:10:16 GMT -6 waysoftheearth said:

And... (related)... can a magic sword with the power to Read Magic cast a spell from a scroll? If not, then what is the purpose of this magic sword power?

All Primary and Extraordinary functions are passed on to the sword user. [M&T at p. 29.]

"Passed on" makes it sound like the sword has the power and passes it on to the user (if it wants to).  

So to answer your hypothetical, I would adjudicate that a sword could pass on its power to read magic thereby allowing a fighter (the only class who can use magic swords) to read scrolls.


Same rule would go for a Helm of Reading Magic and Languages (which is also useable by all characters).

Helm of Reading Magic and Languages: Wearing this helm allows the person to read any language or magical writing. 

This breaks the rule that only magic-users can use scrolls but would be a "special case."  

Given that they are sentient, in some respect having a magic sword is like having an Efreet Bottle which allows the player, for example, to order the Efreet to "cast" Wall of Fire on demand.

Efreet Bottle: The Efreet will serve only the finder of the bottle, and he will serve but for a thousand and one days. 

These creatures are similar to the Djinn, but their basis is in fire and they tend to be Chaotic. Their fabled home is the City of Brass. They are enemies of the Djinn. The Efreet are otherwise like Djinn, with damage scored equal to that done by a Giant (two dice, 2–12 points), and they can carry up to 10,000 Gold Pieces weight. In addition they can create a Wall of Fire and they can become incendiar- ies. They will serve for 1,001 days.  [M&T at p. 19]


Wall of Fire: The spell will create a wall of fire which lasts until the Magic-User no longer concentrates to maintain it. The fire wall is opaque. It prevents creatures with under four hit dice from entering/passing through. Undead will take two dice of damage (2–12) and other creatures one die (1–6) when breaking through the fire. The shape of the wall can be either a plane of up to 6” width and 2” in height, or it can be cast in a circle of 3” diameter and 2” in height. Range: 6”.  [M&M at p. 26]

Further, there is the question of whether Read Magic can be used to identify magic items by "reading" them. That turns on how you interpret the phrase "the means by which the incantations on an item or scroll are read."  

  

[cometaryorbit]

I like the Efreet Bottle comparison. I always found it interesting that in OD&D magic swords in general are intelligent whereas in later editions it's the exception.

[linebeck]

Sept 21, 2020 18:19:27 GMT -6 cometaryorbit said:

I like the Efreet Bottle comparison. I always found it interesting that in OD&D magic swords in general are intelligent whereas in later editions it's the exception.

That’s a good point. Even swords that don’t have powers are intelligent. They just can’t communicate.

Maybe I should have my magic-user research a new spell: “speak with swords.”

[yesmar]

Sept 22, 2020 19:11:22 GMT -6 linebeck said:

Maybe I should have my magic-user research a new spell: “speak with swords.”

I like it. Maybe it’s like Contact Higher Plane where sword entities can lie and might even be insane, and therefore render the caster insane if they fail their save. It is from intersections of the rules such as these that serious fun can emerge.

[Deleted]

I've always liked the house rule that anyone can read and use magical scrolls, even Fighters, but an Intelligence check to Read Magic is required, and a save vs wands/magic items if the check is failed. In my world, potions and scrolls are cheaper and more common than OD&D suggests (I'm kind of like Delta with the magic potions taking the place of Cleric-As-Healer. Clerics are a big part of my world but they're Van Helsing types primarily. They can heal but it's not the focus of their training or profession.). Because magic is fun and everyone having at least some access to it makes the game more varied and dynamic, but not overpowered like the various codified class abilities of your 5e or your Pathfinder style game.

[edkann]

Interesting. You need to memorize read magic to be able to read / use a scroll. You are only allowed to use the spell once, so you can only read magic to use a scroll once until you can memorize spells again. Depending on the situation a magic-user might be able to cast two scrolls during a combat using the single read magic spell.

As a combat note, I believe casting any spell is considered your action. So during combat your magic-user is doing nothing but casting read magic for one combat round. The following combat round he can read a scroll. If he/she has another scroll available he can read that the following combat round.

This really puts the hate on magic-users IMHO. Also, I had forgotten that Clerics were not allowed to have scrolls back in the day.

[hamurai]

My houserule is, you can read scrolls of spells you know already, but you need Read Magic to decipher unknown spells, tomes and scrolls.

[Merias]

I allow read magic to be memorized as an extra spell each day, just so it does not have to use up a limited spell slot. But then during play, I tend to forget this house rule and the task of reading scrolls or spellbooks always ends up being treated as an innate MU ability.

[cometaryorbit]

Sept 22, 2020 19:11:22 GMT -6 linebeck said:

Sept 21, 2020 18:19:27 GMT -6 cometaryorbit said:

I like the Efreet Bottle comparison. I always found it interesting that in OD&D magic swords in general are intelligent whereas in later editions it's the exception.

That’s a good point. Even swords that don’t have powers are intelligent. They just can’t communicate.

Maybe I should have my magic-user research a new spell: “speak with swords.”

If a sword has no communication ability or special powers, the main game effect of its being intelligent is the alignment restriction/damage to wielders of the wrong alignment, right?

[Desparil]

Sept 28, 2020 16:43:31 GMT -6 cometaryorbit said:

Sept 22, 2020 19:11:22 GMT -6 linebeck said:

That’s a good point. Even swords that don’t have powers are intelligent. They just can’t communicate.

Maybe I should have my magic-user research a new spell: “speak with swords.”

If a sword has no communication ability or special powers, the main game effect of its being intelligent is the alignment restriction/damage to wielders of the wrong alignment, right?

Correct, low-intelligence swords don't have Egoism at all and therefore cannot attempt to control their wielders.

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2020 10:31:29 GMT -6 edkann said:

Interesting. You need to memorize read magic to be able to read / use a scroll. You are only allowed to use the spell once, so you can only read magic to use a scroll once until you can memorize spells again. Depending on the situation a magic-user might be able to cast two scrolls during a combat using the single read magic spell.

As a combat note, I believe casting any spell is considered your action. So during combat your magic-user is doing nothing but casting read magic for one combat round. The following combat round he can read a scroll. If he/she has another scroll available he can read that the following combat round.

This really puts the hate on magic-users IMHO. Also, I had forgotten that Clerics were not allowed to have scrolls back in the day.

Yeah. It's a bit too limited for my campaign world, hence Read Magic being an ability and not a spell there. My rationale is that Conan could read magic script sometimes, so the fiction trumps the rules/mechanics in this instance for me. I'm going for a pulpy Appendix N feeling. 

[howandwhy99]

We always interpreted Read Magic as allowing a scroll to be used at any time after it was magically deciphered.

This was like many other spells, especially many Divinations, where it was primarily cast out of combat. The M-U game really is day by day, with planning and spell preparation punctuated by encounters unplanned for.