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Post by dicebro on Oct 21, 2020 17:35:31 GMT -6
What’s the likelihood that H&W failed to adequately secure an irrevocable license from WOTC before spending all that time writing books and making a deal with a publisher? “Default Rule When Silent on Revocability Most courts hold that simple, non-exclusive licenses with unspecified durations that are silent on revocability are revocable at will. This means that the licensor may terminate the license at any time, with or without cause. Conversely, courts typically hold that simple non-exclusive licenses that are silent on revocability but specify a set duration are non-terminable during the set duration. Results, however, may vary based on applicable state contract law and federal law preemption principles. We find that many people are unaware of these default rules. Because of the lack of absolute clarity on the default rules themselves and the impact other provisions in a license agreement may have on their application, we believe it is important not to remain silent on revocability in a license.“ See casetext.com/analysis/the-terms-revocable-and-irrevocable-in-license-agreements-tips-and-pitfallsAnother question, who was H&W’s agent that negotiated the deal with WOTC? If the agent was negligent, there may be an insurance claim. Unfortunately many authors don’t use agents anymore. |
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Post by talysman on Oct 21, 2020 18:12:20 GMT -6
What’s the likelihood that H&W failed to adequately secure an irrevocable license from WOTC before spending all that time writing books and making a deal with a publisher? We'd have to see the contract to be sure. However, I think it's unlikely, because the complaint they filed does not mention the license being revoked at all. If there were a communication -- letter, email, phone call -- revoking the license, I'm pretty sure WotC would be able to supply it when they make a motion to dismiss the lawsuit. Which means H&W would probably not file a suit unless they thought no such documentation existed. The video link I posted previously is by a lawyer who goes through the legal documents pretty thoroughly and explains which parts sound pretty weak and which sound strong. In previous videos, he's analyzed other complaints, including those filed recently by Epic Games vs. Apple and Google, and he specifically mentions at the beginning of this video that in general complaints filed by plaintiffs will look more like H&W's and not like Epic's complaints, which had some questionable arguments he figured weren't going to fly in court. Not that he's saying H&W have a case -- he has no knowledge of Dragonlance or D&D, let alone this specific contract. He just thinks that, as written, it raises some pretty strong arguments that are going to need to be answered. |
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Post by dicebro on Oct 21, 2020 18:55:06 GMT -6
What’s the likelihood that H&W failed to adequately secure an irrevocable license from WOTC before spending all that time writing books and making a deal with a publisher? the complaint they filed does not mention the license being revoked at all. Might be because the plaintiff’s would rather frame this as a contract issue instead of a licensing issue. I wonder, now that they’ve been sued, if WOTC will revoke the license, or would they rather assert that no enforceable contract involving a license existed in the first place. Probably the latter; Why throw away a prudent defense? |
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Post by talysman on Oct 21, 2020 21:05:47 GMT -6
the complaint they filed does not mention the license being revoked at all. Might be because the plaintiff’s would rather frame this as a contract issue instead of a licensing issue. I wonder, now that they’ve been sued, if WOTC will revoke the license, or would they rather assert that no enforceable contract involving a license existed in the first place. Probably the latter; Why throw away a prudent defense? The license is the contract. They had a licensing agreement with WotC and a publishing contract with Penguin Books. I reviewed the video (it includes extensive excerpts from the complaint) and notice two more details: (1) They explicitly list the reasons for termination of the license and the licensor's obligation to notify the licensee of the termination, and state that none of the reasons apply, nor was any notification received. (2) In communication with WotC about the issue, WotC stated that they were not pursuing breach of contract "at this time", but would not be moving forward with approval of future manuscripts. Now, we don't know how accurate the authors are being, and the lawyer in the video pointed out that the WotC comment was probably meant as a threat (they were hoping H&W would just give up and walk away, without them having to claim an actual breach.) He also points out that Hasbro is an extremely litigious company, so there will undoubtly be some back and forth over this for the next couple months. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 21, 2020 22:36:11 GMT -6
I've always wanted to run the Dragonlance dungeons, I just never wanted to run the story. Still never managed to pull that off, every time I sit down with DL1 and think ok how can I take this apart I get side tracked. -Mike It would be a major project, but I'd love to see the original DL series stripped down to its essence and remove the railroading and rebuild them in a more sandbox style with just a touch of adventure path for continuity, and relegate the provided characters to NPC's so players could make their own characters to adventure in it. The maps, locations, ideas, and much of the art are so fantastic. The world, though quaint - even by the standards of the day it was written during - has some compelling elements. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 22, 2020 4:37:17 GMT -6
I've always wanted to run the Dragonlance dungeons, I just never wanted to run the story. Still never managed to pull that off, every time I sit down with DL1 and think ok how can I take this apart I get side tracked. -Mike Yeah this. It would be a major project, but I'd love to see the original DL series stripped down to its essence and remove the railroading and rebuild them in a more sandbox style... And this. FWIW, I've written a fresh, OD&D-style dungeon key for the (awesome) DL1 dungeon map featuring cultists, "dragonians", and a few other classic D&D mobs. And did someone mention dragons? I just need a break from real life pressures so I can run it sometime  |
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Post by dicebro on Oct 22, 2020 6:22:54 GMT -6
Might be because the plaintiff’s would rather frame this as a contract issue instead of a licensing issue. I wonder, now that they’ve been sued, if WOTC will revoke the license, or would they rather assert that no enforceable contract involving a license existed in the first place. Probably the latter; Why throw away a prudent defense? The license is the contract. They had a licensing agreement with WotC and a publishing contract with Penguin Books. I reviewed the video (it includes extensive excerpts from the complaint) and notice two more details: (1) They explicitly list the reasons for termination of the license and the licensor's obligation to notify the licensee of the termination, and state that none of the reasons apply, nor was any notification received. (2) In communication with WotC about the issue, WotC stated that they were not pursuing breach of contract "at this time", but would not be moving forward with approval of future manuscripts. Now, we don't know how accurate the authors are being, and the lawyer in the video pointed out that the WotC comment was probably meant as a threat (they were hoping H&W would just give up and walk away, without them having to claim an actual breach.) He also points out that Hasbro is an extremely litigious company, so there will undoubtly be some back and forth over this for the next couple months. To clarify, the license is the subject of the contract. They aren’t one and the same. Whether an enforceable contract, relating to the license, was created in the first place will likely be an issue raised by the Defendant. My question is “what kind of license was it?” Exclusive? Nonexclusive? Revocable at will? Irrevocable? That doesn’t seem to be clear. Procedurally: Next comes the Answer along with various other pre-discovery motions, amendments and rulings. Then the discovery process will proceed, with all of the corresponding disputes. At some point the trial judge will be asked for summary judgment in accordance with the applicable civil rules of procedure and case law. And, many many years down the road the judge may, or may not allow the case to proceed to a trial by jury. Of course, any appeals will take even more time. And at each stage of the litigation, we may find out more of the “facts”. In the end we will never know the whole story. I would be willing to bet that the case will be dismissed for lack of prosecution. It’s just a matter of resources. The Plaintiffs don’t have much time or money to spend compared to the opposition H&W are simply out-matched. My ultimate opinion is, whomever negotiated on behalf of H&W did a crappy job. Lesson to be learned here for authors: get competent representation on the front end before risking it all later on. |
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Post by captainjapan on Oct 22, 2020 8:58:08 GMT -6
Here is an illuminating post by Adam Whitehead of the blog, The Wertzone, written in June of this year. It has to do with the current state of D&D fiction at Wizards. See excerpt, below:
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Post by captainjapan on Oct 22, 2020 9:22:51 GMT -6
dicebro , It sounds like you know a little about contract law. Is it probable that the firm that drafted this complaint is the same one that reviewed the contract to license Dragonlance? I'd think Wizards would be using a standard Hasbro template for their licensing contracts, by now. That should be pretty comprehensive, considering how long Hasbro has been in the game (pun intend ed). I don't think a federal judge should have a reason to make summary judgement where the material facts of the case are presented so explicitly, as in a Hasbro contract. Will the public ever get to see this contract? I wish! Wikileaks has a few; just not of the publishing variety edit: I missed the part where you said the lawsuit would be dismissed. How long should it be before this suit goes before a judge?
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Post by Mushgnome on Oct 22, 2020 10:43:19 GMT -6
Sad to hear of the controversy. I'm just the right age that the original series (with the Larry Elmore artwork) was published at the same time I was getting into the D&D hobby. As a moody, angsty boy I identified most with Raistlin.
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Post by Falconer on Oct 22, 2020 10:51:58 GMT -6
FWIW, I've written a fresh, OD&D-style dungeon key for the (awesome) DL1 dungeon map featuring cultists, "dragonians", and a few other classic D&D mobs. And did someone mention dragons? I just need a break from real life pressures so I can run it sometime Have you thought about just calling them Serpentmen? I, too, have long thought about running the DL series unrailroaded. Here is an old thread on a similar topic. I am an unabashed fan of the (better) DL novels, but for running a game, I’ve always taken the path of least resistance, and if I’m going to run modules, I’m going to run ones which fit my style better (Wilderlands/Greyhawk/Mystara/Hyperborea, etc.). On the other hand, I think I’m familiar enough with the world that I could roll with the punches and unrailroad the series with minimal prep. Maybe someday… |
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Post by dicebro on Oct 22, 2020 15:50:53 GMT -6
dicebro , It sounds like you know a little about contract law. Is it probable that the firm that drafted this complaint is the same one that reviewed the contract to license Dragonlance? I'd think Wizards would be using a standard Hasbro template for their licensing contracts, by now. That should be pretty comprehensive, considering how long Hasbro has been in the game (pun intend ed). I don't think a federal judge should have a reason to make summary judgement where the material facts of the case are presented so explicitly, as in a Hasbro contract. Will the public ever get to see this contract? I wish! Wikileaks has a few; just not of the publishing variety edit: I missed the part where you said the lawsuit would be dismissed. How long should it be before this suit goes before a judge? Yes, I do know a bit. I will try to answer your questions. Is it probable that the firm that drafted this complaint is the same one that reviewed the contract to license Dragonlance? I doubt it. I'd think Wizards would be using a standard Hasbro template for their licensing contracts, by now. Every contract is unique and standard templates can be dangerous. Until we know more, I wouldn’t assume that anything was executed in the form of a written document. For all I know the licensing discussions could have simply been a chain of emails, maybe not even that. I don't think a federal judge should have a reason to make summary judgement where the material facts of the case are presented so explicitly, as in a Hasbro contract. When the discovery process is complete, the federal rules of civil procedure permit a party to move for summary judgment. The judge will decide if there are any material facts in dispute. See FRCP 56. Will the public ever get to see this contract? Assuming it is written, and introduced as an exhibit by a party, and not placed under seal, maybe so. I missed the part where you said the lawsuit would be dismissed. That was just a wild guess. If H&W have the resources to tangle with a corporate giant’s legal firm, then maybe they can get a reasonable settlement. But these two aren’t getting any younger, and I’m willing to bet they aren’t rich. How long should it be before this suit goes before a judge? That always depends on the court’s schedule. All good questions. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 22, 2020 18:14:28 GMT -6
Have you thought about just calling them Serpentmen? I had thought about going with standard (GH) lizardmen... the main distinction being the dragon-variety have wings. DL draconians also turn to stone, acid, fire when slain which is an interesting game quirk. And there's also the story element; dragonmen rising up to challenge the empire of men is (to me) a compelling feature of the DL campaign that's easily adaptable for broader use. But yeah, I could very easily go with lizardmen with minimal impact |
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Post by Finarvyn on Oct 23, 2020 4:35:36 GMT -6
I've always wanted to run the Dragonlance dungeons, I just never wanted to run the story. Still never managed to pull that off, every time I sit down with DL1 and think ok how can I take this apart I get side tracked. -Mike Yeah, that was always my problem as well. The DL modules, in my opinion, are the most linear and "railroad" style I have ever seen. That in itself isn't a horrible thing, but tie that to the fact that they follow the original novels so closely ... well, my group always said we should just have a book reading instead of a game session. I never really ever figured out how to take the parts I liked and scrap the rest, so I guess that I'm glad to hear that I wasn't the only one with this issue.  I, too, have long thought about running the DL series unrailroaded. Here is an old thread on a similar topic. Nice catch. If ever a thread was begging for a necro, it might be that one!  |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 23, 2020 6:18:21 GMT -6
While I do like Dragonlance and have some nostalgia for it as the novels came out right when I was the right age for them. The names in Dragonlance are really silly and one of the biggest turn offs for me (besides the railroading).
Solamnia = always sounded like salami sandwich to me
Tasselhoff = Hasselhoff (really?!)
Habbakuk = like the book of Habbakuk from the Hebrew Bible
Alhana Starbreeze = just...ugh, same with Sturm Brightblade,
Berem Everman = just a little on the nose you think?
And everything about the gully dwarves, blech
Despite all this, I'm still fond of Dragonlance, but no wonder Wizards of the Coast with their current tastes aren't really into it.
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Post by dicebro on Oct 23, 2020 6:29:41 GMT -6
What’s the likelihood that H&W failed to adequately secure an irrevocable license from WOTC before spending all that time writing books and making a deal with a publisher? We'd have to see the contract to be sure. However, I think it's unlikely, because the complaint they filed does not mention the license being revoked at all. If there were a communication -- letter, email, phone call -- revoking the license, I'm pretty sure WotC would be able to supply it when they make a motion to dismiss the lawsuit. Which means H&W would probably not file a suit unless they thought no such documentation existed. The video link I posted previously is by a lawyer who goes through the legal documents pretty thoroughly and explains which parts sound pretty weak and which sound strong. In previous videos, he's analyzed other complaints, including those filed recently by Epic Games vs. Apple and Google, and he specifically mentions at the beginning of this video that in general complaints filed by plaintiffs will look more like H&W's and not like Epic's complaints, which had some questionable arguments he figured weren't going to fly in court. Not that he's saying H&W have a case -- he has no knowledge of Dragonlance or D&D, let alone this specific contract. He just thinks that, as written, it raises some pretty strong arguments that are going to need to be answered. I just watched the video and enjoyed it very much. He goes through the complaint and does refer to sections of a written agreement . It will be interesting to read what sections of the agreement tHe Defendants will emphasize in the Answer. I hope the parties can settle to the satisfaction of H&W. But it’s too bad the stories are jeopardized. |
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Post by Falconer on Oct 23, 2020 9:20:14 GMT -6
And everything about the gully dwarves, blech Yeah, I’d replace Gully Dwarves with Theiwar (derro) or else just call them Petty-dwarves and model them after Mîm either way. I recently thought about replacing the tinker gnomes of Mount Nevermind with goblins. Tolkien sometimes wrote about goblins making inventions and firecrackers and such. |
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Post by Finarvyn on Oct 23, 2020 11:03:39 GMT -6
I may have mentioned this somewhere here, since I like to drop it into any DragonLance thread I encounter, so apologies if I keep saying the same thing.
I figured out how to handle Kender in my game. I tried letting my wife play one and it was a near disaster since she spent the whole time trying to "steal" things from the party and they spent the whole time trying to stop her. The adventure totally got derailed and nobody really had much fun.
My solution is to assume that the Kender is doing stuff behind the scenes. Let the adventure run as usual, but each time a character wants to pull an item out of a backpack (or use a scroll, or whatever) at that point we pause and let the Kender roll to see if he or she has already taken it. Gets rid of a lot of the sidetrack, and becomes a laugh if characters are all together but becomes a potential issue if the party gets divided somehow.
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Post by talysman on Oct 23, 2020 16:42:44 GMT -6
I just watched the video and enjoyed it very much. He goes through the complaint and does refer to sections of a written agreement . It will be interesting to read what sections of the agreement tHe Defendants will emphasize in the Answer. I hope the parties can settle to the satisfaction of H&W. But it’s too bad the stories are jeopardized. Not sure how I wound up watching his videos, but he's been very informative on DMCA issues, streaming media disputes, and analysis of the language for business communications (press releases and the like.) Not just explaining the legal meaning or business maneuvering going on, but also just the issues themselves. For example, I normally don't pay much attention to what WotC is doing or what's happening with Dragonlance. I learned the lawsuit existed because Hoag Law/Virtual Legality did a story on it. And because that video mentioned some image problems WotC was having, I did a quick check and found the details I mentioned earlier. I hope the Dragonlance fans get what they want, but also hope that this is not part of an ongoing saga of WotC either imploding or bailing out of D&D entirely. Even though I don't buy WotC D&D products anymore, I think the absence of a large company promoting some version of the game may be detrimental to fantasy adventure RPGs in general and the OSR in particular. |
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Post by Falconer on Oct 23, 2020 17:23:11 GMT -6
I think draconians are very cool as-is. I just like sometimes calling them serpentmen because it helps remind of the creepy vibe of Lovecraft’s Nameless City or Howard’s Kull stories. Finarvyn, I think your take on Kender is great! Basically a way of letting equipment “teleport” around the party. Love it. I’ve also seen a table somewhere of random trinkets they can produce. BTW, I don’t know if I have mentioned this in the other thread, but I also think The Warlock OD&D Spell Point System that Zenopus posted works best with Dragonlance. 2e’s Player’s Option: Spells & Magic pp. 76-83 accomplish more or less the same thing. Would this be a good time to mention I have been working on an Old School Dragonlance Companion? |
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Post by dicebro on Oct 23, 2020 19:04:20 GMT -6
I just watched the video and enjoyed it very much. He goes through the complaint and does refer to sections of a written agreement . It will be interesting to read what sections of the agreement tHe Defendants will emphasize in the Answer. I hope the parties can settle to the satisfaction of H&W. But it’s too bad the stories are jeopardized. also hope that this is not part of an ongoing saga of WotC either imploding or bailing out of D&D entirely. Even though I don't buy WotC D&D products anymore, I think the absence of a large company promoting some version of the game may be detrimental to fantasy adventure RPGs in general and the OSR in particular. the end of D&D? Maybe it’s inevitable. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 3:17:27 GMT -6
also hope that this is not part of an ongoing saga of WotC either imploding or bailing out of D&D entirely. Even though I don't buy WotC D&D products anymore, I think the absence of a large company promoting some version of the game may be detrimental to fantasy adventure RPGs in general and the OSR in particular. the end of D&D? Maybe it’s inevitable. Naah. 5e makes good money for WotC. So, the brand will continue to make sense for them. That said, WotC is certainly in a difficult spot, there: Tracy Hickman was also involved in "Curse of Strahd", which can be said to have been the one defining, iconic 5e title - and, which, of course, as an adventure, is based on his original creation. Of all the different contributors, he's probably the one that WotC would like to annoy the least. Sad thing is, there aren't many of the great oldschool authors left except for M&H, Ed Greenwood, and RA Salvatore. Carl Sargent and Roger Moore have left the industry. Erik Mona, Monte Cook, Bruce Cordell, Robert Schwalb, and others are busy running their own successful operations now. - And after this lawsuit, no matter how it turns out, they are going to be considerably more reluctant to spend their time on a WotC project, especially if they can avoid it. So, my prediction is, 6e is going to be the version where the brand emancipates itself from the roots of the game. Roughly 50 years after the first version, that's probably not a big surprise, but 5e's notoriously nostalgia-driven marketing tactics might have come to the end of their usefulness. Saltmarsh, Ravenloft, and Dragonlance work with the fans not just because of their content, but also because of their history. If the overall impression becomes that WotC is at odds with that history, then that will curb people's enthusiasm considerably. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 24, 2020 4:27:23 GMT -6
So, my prediction is, 6e is going to be the version where the brand emancipates itself from the roots of the game. That was 4th edition. I hope they learned their lesson. 6e is likely to be several years out. The good thing is that with the OSR and the OGL we the fans own D&D forever. Dungeons & Dragons is just a brand name. |
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Post by waysoftheearth on Oct 24, 2020 4:48:22 GMT -6
the end of D&D? Maybe it’s inevitable. Perhaps in geological time, but I can't genuinely imagine this in my lifetime; the genie is out of the bottle. Whether or not D&D can remain commercially viable is one thing, but whether legions of fans will continue to homebrew and play D&D seems to me a separate concern. Personally, I can't recall purchasing anything (excepting a few old school pdfs/reprints) from WotC/TSR in decades, but that hasn't stopped me playing D&D |
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Post by Finarvyn on Oct 24, 2020 6:51:10 GMT -6
I think draconians are very cool as-is. I just like sometimes calling them serpentmen because it helps remind of the creepy vibe of Lovecraft’s Nameless City or Howard’s Kull stories. Perfect! I love Howard's fiction and the vibe of his stories, and renaming draconians into serpentmen does evoke that vibe. Finarvyn, I think your take on Kender is great! Basically a way of letting equipment “teleport” around the party. Love it. I’ve also seen a table somewhere of random trinkets they can produce. Thanks. I imagine situations where a character is trying to find that treasure map or magic dagger or whatever, only to find that the Kender already had swiped it. I like the notion of a random item table, too, as the Kender might have picked up random stuff over time and could produce later on. It's the Kender's superpower.  Would this be a good time to mention I have been working on an Old School Dragonlance Companion? I 'can;t get the link to work. Says I need permission.  So, my prediction is, 6e is going to be the version where the brand emancipates itself from the roots of the game. That was 4th edition. I hope they learned their lesson. 6e is likely to be several years out. The good thing is that with the OSR and the OGL we the fans own D&D forever. Dungeons & Dragons is just a brand name. Maybe it will be sort of like the old Star Trek movies, where the odd ones were bad and the even ones good. In D&D maybe the odd ones are good and even ones bad? |
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Post by dicebro on Oct 24, 2020 7:00:38 GMT -6
the end of D&D? Maybe it’s inevitable. Perhaps in geological time, but I can't genuinely imagine this in my lifetime; the genie is out of the bottle. Whether or not D&D can remain commercially viable is one thing, but whether legions of fans will continue to homebrew and play D&D seems to me a separate concern. Personally, I can't recall purchasing anything (excepting a few old school pdfs/reprints) from WotC/TSR in decades, but that hasn't stopped me playing D&D Heh, I listened to this “live play” last night and it isn’t representative of the game I remember: www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1NqKce40Ec&t=2637s. This is much more like what I remember D&D to be: www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2BQgI9wIQQ&t=2486s. Now, both groups are having fun. No argument there. Also, Anybody can play the way they darn well please. But it seems as if the Strahd group is conducting something akin to a “radio drama” of old. Even the dice roll “checks” seem superfluous. it seems that “D&D” doesn’t specifically identify an actual game anymore. |
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Post by dicebro on Oct 24, 2020 7:05:28 GMT -6
the end of D&D? Maybe it’s inevitable. Naah. 5e makes good money for WotC. So, the brand will continue to make sense for them. That said, WotC is certainly in a difficult spot, there: Tracy Hickman was also involved in "Curse of Strahd", which can be said to have been the one defining, iconic 5e title - and, which, of course, as an adventure, is based on his original creation. Of all the different contributors, he's probably the one that WotC would like to annoy the least. Sad thing is, there aren't many of the great oldschool authors left except for M&H, Ed Greenwood, and RA Salvatore. Carl Sargent and Roger Moore have left the industry. Erik Mona, Monte Cook, Bruce Cordell, Robert Schwalb, and others are busy running their own successful operations now. - And after this lawsuit, no matter how it turns out, they are going to be considerably more reluctant to spend their time on a WotC project, especially if they can avoid it. So, my prediction is, 6e is going to be the version where the brand emancipates itself from the roots of the game. Roughly 50 years after the first version, that's probably not a big surprise, but 5e's notoriously nostalgia-driven marketing tactics might have come to the end of their usefulness. Saltmarsh, Ravenloft, and Dragonlance work with the fans not just because of their content, but also because of their history. If the overall impression becomes that WotC is at odds with that history, then that will curb people's enthusiasm considerably. Sure, but what happens to a brand when the name doesn’t seem to refer to a specific product anymore. To me the lines have become fuzzy. |
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Post by Falconer on Oct 24, 2020 8:17:57 GMT -6
I can't get the link to work. Says I need permission. Oh, oops. Well, anyone interested in an “Old School Dragonlance Project” please PM me. |
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Post by tdenmark on Oct 24, 2020 18:25:09 GMT -6
Maybe it will be sort of like the old Star Trek movies, where the odd ones were bad and the even ones good. In D&D maybe the odd ones are good and even ones bad? heh, I've had that very same thought. I went through a little deep dive into 2nd edition a couple of months ago and read a bunch of those old books and the reasons why I left D&D during that period were validated. It was just so bland and vanilla and "safe" and did little to advance the design. For all its flaws 3rd edition is what 2nd edition should have been - I mean most if not all the innovations in 3e were well known already in the late 80's. Don't get me wrong, Planescape, the Ravenloft setting, and to some extent Dark Sun are still excellent and hold up well, my criticisms are aimed at the core rule books and much of the graphics. And hey 2nd edition is still D&D after all, the greatest game ever made. So my critique only runs so deep. To rank: 1. LBB (& Holmes) 2. Moldvay Basic 3. Cyclopedia (& BECMI) 4. AD&D* 5. 5e 6. 3e 7. 2e 8. 4e (to me this game is D&D in name only) *largely due to nostalgia and its legacy, to be perfectly honest when I analyze it's design now there is much lacking that should have been fixed, it's kind of a mess. A beautiful mess to be sure.Alright, I went off on a tangent there. Back to Dragonlance! Atlas of Dragonlance is probably my favorite Dragonlance book. |
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Post by Falconer on Oct 24, 2020 22:17:49 GMT -6
We ran a couple of polls in the large Dragonlance Adventures group on Facebook. Thought you might be interested in the results.
1. What is your preferred ‘old school’ ruleset?
2e - 69%
1e - 18%
BECMI - 4.5%
B/X - 3%
RC - 2%
C&C - 1.5%
OD&D - 1%
Other - 1%
2. Which game system do you CURRENTLY use to play Dragonlance games?
5e - 37%
2e - 32%
3e - 10.5%
1e - 8.5%
PF1 - 6%
SAGA - 1.5%
4e - 0%
Other - 4.5%
Based on these, I’d say 2e is the evergreen favorite of DL fans. I’ve been spending some time revisiting it. I started with it and am fond of it, albeit not enough to run it. But I could run it in a pinch. You know how people talk about using the AD&D books to run D&D? I would be using the 2e books to run AD&D. Part of the gist of my project is to hack together a “4th core book” for 2e which would not only encompass everything you need for DL, but also all the far-flung 2e stuff I might want, eg., Monks. Also, you need to port in 1e-style (power-level) dragons in Krynn.
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