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Post by jeffb on May 4, 2020 12:08:18 GMT -6
thegreyelf I'm not familiar with this fiction, but I saw this in an email from Goodman Games- can you dish any? Anyone else familiar with this Appendix N classic?
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Post by thegreyelf on May 4, 2020 12:47:46 GMT -6
thegreyelf I'm not familiar with this fiction, but I saw this in an email from Goodman Games- can you dish any? Anyone else familiar with this Appendix N classic? If you're familiar with the Books of Swords, Empire of the East is set in the same world, about 1,000 years earlier. It's not a prequel, because it was actually written first (so the Books of Swords are a sort of sequel to EotE). It's not Saberhagen's best work--as some of his earlier novels they are extremely linear. They read a lot like an old-school video game plays. You go through each level, fighting progressively harder monsters, and then battle the Boss Monster at the end. With cinematics between. That being said, it is a pretty cool world for what it is, and it's still Saberhagen, so it's a fun read. Post-apocalyptic fantasy, radioactive demons, Orcus, mutant beasts, really interesting take on magic (most of it is summoning-based, and you can't use magic while violence is going on)...it has a very Thundarr the Barbarian vibe to it, tbh (and may well have been an influence on that cartoon). Glad to hear it's finally ready to come out! They announced it, as they said, over a year ago, and I wrote it well over a year before that! |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 4, 2020 12:58:30 GMT -6
Looking over the sample pages, it appears they dumped my introductory adventure for one written by Harley. That's fine; writing adventures for Goodman Games is challenging at best. They are VERY specific in what they like to see in adventure modules.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 13:56:14 GMT -6
So... Did you adapt Saberhagen for the DCC RPG, thegreyelf? Myself, I read the books a few years back, including the 2006 Ardneh/Swords bridge novel. I'm a big fan of Saberhagen, and I think "The Broken Lands" might have been a possible inspiration for Dave Arneson's Blackmoor. Maybe only indirectly so, but especially if you look at the later DA series Arneson published via TSR, the thematic parallels are certainly there. |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 4, 2020 13:59:13 GMT -6
So... Did you adapt Saberhagen for the DCC RPG, thegreyelf? Myself, I read the books a few years back, including the 2006 Ardneh/Swords bridge novel. I'm a big fan of Saberhagen, and I think "The Broken Lands" might have been a possible inspiration for Dave Arneson's Blackmoor. Maybe only indirectly so, but especially if you look at the later DA series Arneson published via TSR, the thematic parallels are certainly there. I did. I also did a 5e version of it. I'm not sure where that one is in development. They asked for some strange extra additions on it, which I kind of just let go. It's possible they'll ask someone else to fill that out. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 23:07:32 GMT -6
Okay, interesting. I hope this gets released in a way that respects your effort as a writer! I'd certainly buy this one immediately! ...John Goodman is a smart guy. Looking at Saberhagen is looking at the foundations of D&D, even though people rarely talk about it. It will bring a new nuance to the discussion that hasn't been there for a while. |
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Post by jeffb on May 5, 2020 8:08:22 GMT -6
I have to find me a copy of these books.
Thanks for the info- Hopefully the DCC version will be available soon.
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Post by cometaryorbit on May 10, 2020 5:01:53 GMT -6
Hmmm, I'll have to find Empire of the East. I liked the Complete Book of Swords...
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Post by Finarvyn on May 10, 2020 6:09:02 GMT -6
I read a single-volume book called "Empire of the East" back in the late 1970's or early 1980's. I didn't know there was a series, but perhaps they just put all of the books into a single omnibus and I didn't realize it. I'll have to do some research on this. I have very positive memories of Empire of the East, but not a lot of details. John Goodman is a smart guy. He is pretty smart for an actor. So is Joseph Goodman, who owns Goodman Games.  |
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Post by jeffb on May 10, 2020 16:12:03 GMT -6
^^^^^^^^  |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 17:56:25 GMT -6
Appendix N: here come dark, ominous, and deadly adventuring, surprising fellowship, and bloody career.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 6:42:56 GMT -6
John Goodman is a smart guy. He is pretty smart for an actor. So is Joseph Goodman, who owns Goodman Games. Raaaaaaaaaaah. Happens to me every time. EVERY TIME.  |
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Post by thegreyelf on May 11, 2020 7:23:23 GMT -6
I just got informed this weekend that the kickstarter for the DCC Empire of the East sourcebook I did is going live very soon. It's a really simple, straightforward Kicksterter from Goodman Games. No stretch goals, a few basic pledge levels, a $5,000 goal. I'm excited--the layout looks great.
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Post by simrion on May 11, 2020 14:40:49 GMT -6
Wasn't there a battle tank in the book that legend called "The Elephant?"
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 2:03:52 GMT -6
Yeah, but that's in the third book, I think. - This, among other things, is why I say this is a book that is "more Blackmoor than Blackmoor": The books aren't very good, honestly, especially not compared to other stuff Saberhagen went on to write, but the way they mix "Swords & Planets" and post-apocalyptic elements is pretty unique. We will probably never know for sure, but I would be very, very, very surprised if this didn't land on Dave Arneson's bookshelf, some time between 1968 and 1973.
The only books that I've ever felt to, voluntarily or not, be this close to Blackmoor, are the ones from Angus Wells' "The Kingdoms" series - and those likely take their proximity to Blackmoor from Wells reading the DA series and deciding that this was some cool stuff.
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Post by thegreyelf on May 12, 2020 4:58:13 GMT -6
The Elephant is in the first book, The Broken Lands. It's the MacGuffin for that book and what sets the whole thing off.
"Except for the impression that it gave of enormous and mysterious power, this before him did not much resemble the creature depicted in the symbols. This was a flattened metal lozenge of smooth regular curves, built low to the ground for something of its massive size. Here could be seen no fantastically flexible snout, no jutting teeth. There was no real face at all, only some thin hollowed metal shafts projecting all in one direction from the topmost hump. Looking closely Rolf could see that around that hump, or head, were set some tiny glassy-looking things, like the false eyes of some monstrous statue.
Elephant was legless, which only made it all the more impressive by raising the question of how its obvious power was to be unfolded and applied. Neither were there any proper wheels, such as a cart or wagon had. Instead Elephant rested on two endless belts of heavy, studded metal plates, whose shielded upper course ran higher than Rolf’s head. On the dull metal of each flank, painted small in size but with Old World Precision, was the familiar sign—the animal shape—gray and powerful… In its monstrous gripping nose the crea-ture in the painting brandished a sharp-pointed spear, jagged all along its length. Under its feet it trod the symbols:
426TH ARMORED DIVISION."
--The Broken Lands
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Post by thegreyelf on May 12, 2020 5:03:48 GMT -6
Yeah, but that's in the third book, I think. - This, among other things, is why I say this is a book that is "more Blackmoor than Blackmoor": The books aren't very good, honestly, especially not compared to other stuff Saberhagen went on to write, but the way they mix "Swords & Planets" and post-apocalyptic elements is pretty unique. We will probably never know for sure, but I would be very, very, very surprised if this didn't land on Dave Arneson's bookshelf, some time between 1968 and 1973. The only books that I've ever felt to, voluntarily or not, be this close to Blackmoor, are the ones from Angus Wells' "The Kingdoms" series - and those likely take their proximity to Blackmoor from Wells reading the DA series and deciding that this was some cool stuff. Again, Elephant is the first book, not the third. But I can agree with all of this. The books are an easy and fast read and fairly well paced, but it's painfully obvious that Saberhagen was still learning his craft and still learning how to world build. But there's a lot of evocative and fun stuff whipped in there and the books are very much worth a read, even if they're not his best. Again, they're not going to take up a lot of your time. They're super fast to read and well-paced. They're just not very deep and they kind of read the way an old-school video game plays: fight through a succession of tougher and tougher goons while pursuing a MacGuffin which is then used to take down the Boss Monster. |
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