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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 20, 2020 19:50:27 GMT -6
I'm pondering running the Tomb of Horrors someday for my crew. I'm not sure of the edition yet, I own the AD&D version (so could run OD&D, AD&D, C&C, other choices of rules) but I also have the 5E one from Tales from the Yawning Portal. I have a group of 4 players, I was thinking of starting them somewhere around 10th level. Maybe. (See below)  I will confess that I've never run and never played this module, so some thoughts come to mind that may be genius and may be totally stupid. I know that the reputation of ToH is that of a "killer" dungeon and in many ways the exact level isn't as important as surviving death traps, so having multiple characters is something that folks have suggested. So … (1) Maybe just beef up characters to some mega-level and let players have at it. If you die, you die. With this option, I don't know what level characters would need to be in order to be a challenge. (2) Maybe give several "lives" so that if they "die" they get to push reset and lose a "life" and keep going. In this case I'd have to ponder the number of "lives" to give each character. (3) Maybe use option #2 above, but with a community pool of "lives." One player might be cautious and another reckless and the party would have to decide how to juggle this "lives" resource through the dungeon. (4) Multiple "lives" but each character comes back healed but weaker, so max HP and full spells but lower level. For example, a 10th level character comes back at 9th, then 8th, then dead. So if resources get really drained, a revived but weaker character could help the party a lot. These are just some ideas that popped into my head. I welcome discussion or advice on running this dungeon, from "don't do it" to thoughts on which edition of the game to run. |
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Post by jeffb on Apr 20, 2020 20:10:44 GMT -6
The 5e version in Tales is a bit watered down compared to the original as I recall
And of course 5e is not nearly as lethal due to generally lower DCs for saves ,conditions that are less harsh/lethal/lengthy, readily available healing/resurrection, etc.
For the Original we always used the Pre-Gens or rolled up one-shot characters and had a backup.
I don't think I would let on to the players that there was "respawning" or such.
Its massive fun, if everyone is very aware and clear what the Tomb is all about. PLAYER SKILL and easy death. It's not a good adventure to spring on people as part of your existing campaign with existing high level characters they are attached to.
My 2 Lunars...
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Post by jeffb on Apr 20, 2020 20:14:22 GMT -6
There is a yootob channel I subcribe to that has an awesome "walk through" of the original. Well worth watching even just for fun. In fact they have several good videos on their channel
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Post by tkdco2 on Apr 21, 2020 2:34:54 GMT -6
I've only played that game once. My character was the only one (aside from one NPC retainer) who survived all the way to the final encounter. Needless to say, that fight didn't go well for my character.
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Dohojar
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 114 
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Post by Dohojar on Apr 21, 2020 7:17:19 GMT -6
I took my 5e group (8 characters) through there when they were around lvl 13 (yawning portal version). Only 2 survived. Some of the traps aren't too bad but some are vicious regardless of the DC. And of course, never underestimate players ability to do something stupid.
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muddy
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 158
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Post by muddy on Apr 21, 2020 8:54:51 GMT -6
I remember running this when it came out - it was a) too high a level for my group and b) way too deadly anyway, so I ran it as a one shot (though we didn't have that term back then) and gave them high level characters (in the suggested range, I think. Did it come with pre-gens? I don't remember) We had a fairly large group (6-8 players maybe) or experienced players, I toned it down a bit, and they still didn't fare well.
Your ideas are complicated and more interesting, but with 4 players I would just give them each two characters in the upper end of the suggested range and several magic items of their choice - each character gets 2 potions, a wand or weapon, etc. with some DM veto power.
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akooser
Level 4 Theurgist
Posts: 150
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Post by akooser on Apr 21, 2020 9:43:39 GMT -6
I run it as a mini campaign with low level characters to start. There are three false tombs each one designed to build up characters and player skill. Each tomb contains hints to where the next one is. It's a nice mix of wilderness and dungeon crawl.
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Post by delta on Apr 21, 2020 10:41:48 GMT -6
I ran it once, stretched out over 3 long sessions (actually in 3 separate years at a con, if you can believe that). In so doing my playstyle changed and I made at least one important discovery, I think.
The top rule is: GIVE THE PLAYERS THE RIDDLE in the opening hallway. I cannot emphasize this enough. Initially my players missed it per the text and the game was a long kind of boring slog. Midway through they cast contact outer plane or something, and I gave them a few lines for the place they were currently at -- the play totally pivoted, and they were aggressively interacting with the riddle and the dungeon, making good progress, and happy about how that was possible. Then they depleted the clues they got and it went back to, "better search all 100' of corridor here for secret doors".
So again: Whatever PCs do to search in the opening hallway, I would give them the riddle (or some other mechanism, like they got it before they came to the dungeon). In a huge tournament situation I can understand being stingy with it; you want most groups to die, so you can identify a "best of show" winner. But in a home game with one group, make it interactive.
The other expectation to set is: Yes, it has a reputation as a "killer" and many save-or-die (or even no save traps). But there are no mobile monsters, no wandering monsters, and no time constraints whatsoever (excepting a time limit for a tourney situation, which changes the dynamics a lot). So its very possible for PCs to "turtle" and get super cautious about trying to move forward, and the game can be really static and bogged down and boring, with little action. So take that into account; again, with the riddle my players were willing and able to interact with the traps, puzzle them out, and progress.
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Post by Finarvyn on Apr 21, 2020 11:06:12 GMT -6
I run it as a mini campaign with low level characters to start. There are three false tombs each one designed to build up characters and player skill. Each tomb contains hints to where the next one is. It's a nice mix of wilderness and dungeon crawl. I am curious about this. Can you elaborate? The top rule is: GIVE THE PLAYERS THE RIDDLE in the opening hallway. <snip> ...the play totally pivoted, and they were aggressively interacting with the riddle and the dungeon, making good progress, and happy about how that was possible. Then they depleted the clues they got and it went back to, "better search all 100' of corridor here for secret doors". I've seen similar advice out on the web, and I think I will give them the riddle at the get-go before they enter the thing. I love your observation that they took the riddle to heart and tried to think their way through. I know that it was designed to be a convention "killer" dungeon, but I love the concept of a "riddle" dungeon instead!  |
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Post by geoffrey on Apr 21, 2020 12:05:40 GMT -6
Lots of good suggestions so far.
In addition, I suggest the following:
1. Use the AD&D rulebooks.
2. Have each of your 4 players run 2 PCs at the same time, thus yielding a party of 8.
3. Have your players use 8 of the PCs on page 11 of the module. Pick which PCs the players can choose amongst using the chart on page 12.
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Post by tkdco2 on Apr 21, 2020 12:53:36 GMT -6
And of course, never underestimate players ability to do something stupid. Underestimate? I'm counting on it! |
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Post by jeffb on Apr 21, 2020 14:24:48 GMT -6
And of course, never underestimate players ability to do something stupid. Underestimate? I'm counting on it!  |
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